Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://pages.crimsoneducation.org/rs/039-NBM-750/images/FL-10-2018-ib-student-acceptance-rates-at-top-us-universities.pdf?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWTJaalltRTJOV0kzT1

https://wl.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2018/09/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

This chart shows Northwestern with an acceptance rate of 33 percent.?? Or is that 33 percent of these respondents who had applied had been accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://pages.crimsoneducation.org/rs/039-NBM-750/images/FL-10-2018-ib-student-acceptance-rates-at-top-us-universities.pdf?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWTJaalltRTJOV0kzT1

https://wl.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2018/09/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

This chart shows Northwestern with an acceptance rate of 33 percent.?? Or is that 33 percent of these respondents who had applied had been accepted?

The table lists that as “overall acceptance rate.” That isn’t close to true. Northwestern acceptance rate closer to 7 percent

[Anonymous]

My kid did full IB. Now at UVA. Classes seemed manageable until the spring of senior year. Then it got stressful, which was unfortunately timed in the context of college admissions all in. By the end of the year, taking 15+ IB exams wasn’t exactly fun. No basis of comparison to say whether the classes and whole environment were more beneficial to my kid. I think time will tell on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://pages.crimsoneducation.org/rs/039-NBM-750/images/FL-10-2018-ib-student-acceptance-rates-at-top-us-universities.pdf?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWTJaalltRTJOV0kzT1

https://wl.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2018/09/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

This chart shows Northwestern with an acceptance rate of 33 percent.?? Or is that 33 percent of these respondents who had applied had been accepted?

The table lists that as “overall acceptance rate.” That isn’t close to true. Northwestern acceptance rate closer to 7 percent

Nobody with two intact brain cells is taking those percentages seriously. Who’s Crimson Education? It must be true cause it’s on the internet.

[Anonymous]

At Marshall's College Night, the counselor noted that if you are taking a full suite of IB classes but are not a Diploma candidate, they would still check "most rigorous" on the transcript. Now whether colleges figure out the students are not IB Diploma candidates, I have no idea. For my kid, it won't be hard to figure out - dropped foreign language to focus on engineering/STEM classes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

NP. At our IB-only HS, being an IBDC seems to have a huge advantage over just-as-rigorous IB classes only for UVA. The counselors would know for sure but anecdotally, it is a profound difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

NP. At our IB-only HS, being an IBDC seems to have a huge advantage over just-as-rigorous IB classes only for UVA. The counselors would know for sure but anecdotally, it is a profound difference.

It’s correlation vs causation. Different pool of kids are doing DP vs a la carte. That doesn’t mean it’s the Diploma giving the advantage. I don’t know what you mean by “just as rigorous” but if the counselor checks the “most rigorous” box they’ll be seen the same.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

AP is a walk in the park compared to the full IB. The AP exams are Mickey-Mouse against the IB exams and demands of the full IB. My kid did both.

You’re just proving my point, your argument is just “my kid did it, it’s good”. Most colleges give the same credit to AP and IB classes, so I’d rather go by that objective measure instead of your subjective anecdote. I get you’re a proud parent but don’t get carried away thinking the path your kid took is the only one worth taking.

dp. AP writing is nothing compared to IB writing requirements. That said, IBDP is not for everyone. It does require a lot more work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

AP is a walk in the park compared to the full IB. The AP exams are Mickey-Mouse against the IB exams and demands of the full IB. My kid did both.

You’re just proving my point, your argument is just “my kid did it, it’s good”. Most colleges give the same credit to AP and IB classes, so I’d rather go by that objective measure instead of your subjective anecdote. I get you’re a proud parent but don’t get carried away thinking the path your kid took is the only one worth taking.

dp. AP writing is nothing compared to IB writing requirements. That said, IBDP is not for everyone. It does require a lot more work.

In what sense and what class? Can you give specifics on how the IB writing requirements are better? There’s a lot of writing in AP English and History, essays due every week. I’m having a hard time believing the IB class is so much better, yet colleges don’t seem to see it that way.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?[/quote]

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.[/quote]

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.[/quote]

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.[/quote]

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

[/quote]

Your presumption is that college-level gen eds are equal to APs. That's a judgment error. At a good university they are better (regardless of said university's AP granting policies which can be fairly disconnected from course quality in any direction). Many STEM majors have fumbled while accelerating based on good AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Reposting due to coding issue.

PP's presumption is that college-level gen eds are equal to APs. That's a judgment error. At a good university they are better (regardless of said university's AP granting policies which can be fairly disconnected from course quality in any direction). Many STEM majors have fumbled while accelerating based on good AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reposting due to coding issue.

PP's presumption is that college-level gen eds are equal to APs. That's a judgment error. At a good university they are better (regardless of said university's AP granting policies which can be fairly disconnected from course quality in any direction). Many STEM majors have fumbled while accelerating based on good AP scores.

They are not that different. If UVA is fine with AP Calculus BC and IB HL Math, then I’ll take yes for an answer. In what way do you think the college classes are better? It’s the same syllabus, often the same textbook, exams have comparable difficulty. Some college classes are huge and most interaction is with the TA anyways.

People just invent reasons to believe IB or AP for that matter, confer them some intangible advantage. Most of it is just wishful thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

I think people are guessing at that. Best to ask your individual school.