Michigan LSA - easier to get in than Ross?

[Anonymous]

I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

[Anonymous]

All of the above.

[Anonymous]

When you have 100,000 applications, I don’t think diverting 11,000 applicants to Ross is going to make a huge difference. It will be interesting to see. I am sure many kids will forgo a Ross application and choose to apply to LSA.

[Anonymous]

No idea

[Anonymous]

Ross is harder to get you. You have to fill in more application outside the normal.

[Anonymous]

LSA has a two year college language requirement to get a degree. In my kids case testing did not get them out of any semesters of foreign language. So just make sure your kid is comfortable with foreign languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you have 100,000 applications, I don’t think diverting 11,000 applicants to Ross is going to make a huge difference. It will be interesting to see. I am sure many kids will forgo a Ross application and choose to apply to LSA.

My kid wanted Ross but decided against it due to poor odds. Last year, I'm sure he would have tried for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have 100,000 applications, I don’t think diverting 11,000 applicants to Ross is going to make a huge difference. It will be interesting to see. I am sure many kids will forgo a Ross application and choose to apply to LSA.

My kid wanted Ross but decided against it due to poor odds. Last year, I'm sure he would have tried for it.

+2 Mine too.

[Anonymous]

Curious to see what in-state kids do. UofM is the top choice for a lot of them, and I could see them forgoing a Ross application if it meant potentially not getting in when you have a good chance at LSA based on high school historical results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious to see what in-state kids do. UofM is the top choice for a lot of them, and I could see them forgoing a Ross application if it meant potentially not getting in when you have a good chance at LSA based on high school historical results.

For the entering class of 2024, 10,827 students applied and 840 were accepted. The goal is a class of 500. It says 52% enrolled (not accepted) are in state and the gender ratio is pretty evenly split. Chances of admission to Ross, regardless of residency, is very slim (8%).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

63k oos tuition for LSA is absurd: go to a fancy private school for 4 years — for the same price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

I have an MBA from Ross. I'm a parent of a current LSA freshman (who is not interested in Ross). I've watched YouTube videos of Ross admits talking about their application reviews.

I guess the number of LSA applications could drop but that might even be because it's not a championship season anymore. Sports wins actually drive "hey, why not" apps.

Ross interests interact with Economics in LSA. To the extent that one's app would be tailored to Economics, there probably will be less competition for an applicant discussing interest in that area than there would have been a few years ago.

I am not sure what the population is of people who like the strategy of presenting their goal as a small, rare major, only to pivot and seek an in-demand major. That type of person's luck seems to be worsening at Michigan. Several majors have moved to direct admit or "can only apply once". I wouldn't recommend that hack.

However, people were already warned in the past couple years that the number of slots for LSA to Ross transfers (those not pre-admitted at LSA matriculation) is small. Based on 2022 stats, they took about 100 students as internal transfers, with an even gender split. Those odds already did a lot to discourage people applying to LSA just to try to backdoor into Ross. So maybe that's not a big factor.

Here's my personal take on admissions criteria. You can see what the Common Data Set says officially. My POV may differ.

SAT - anything above 1500 probably doesn't sway selection extra hard. They know you are smart. 1430-ish + probably fine (that is Nat'l Merit Commended level). It's not clear whether OOSers really have to meet a higher SAT threshold or whether there's an OOS application & yield bias, exacerbated by the high cost of OOS tuition.

GPA - there are hard cutoffs here. Probably around 3.8/3.9 unweighted and you must calc using Michigan's own method. Not clear if any adjustments are made "by hand" by the admissions officers for specific schools. Lower GPA could be disqualifying...3.75, etc. Look at your school's Naviance or SCOIR.

AP Test Scores - I don't think these matter. Sorry DMV. In-state districts mostly don't emphasize these or offer the wide selection that DMV districts do. Credits are only sort of useful for LSA. But do save money if you want to graduate early. Having lots of 5s is probably pretty correlated with SAT over 1500...so not new info.

AP Classes - just indicates "most rigor". You can take IB or Community College or any other extra that shows rigor. This is more important than AP scores.

Class Rank - this is a product of grades. I don't think they always take the highest rank people. I think they are more interested in what you plan to study. The problem is that a lot of OOSers want the same majors. If you have intra-school competition with a similar profile, grades are a separator. But ranked #8 vs. #3 is probably not going to matter. At our in-state school they took 25 kids - all from the top 10% of the class.

Why School Essay + Demonstrated Interest - if you don't have strong results here (go to webinars to show DI !) you may be mistaken for a person who is applying to every decent school. There are a ton of those people now. They get wait listed if their profile is interesting, but look unlikely to attend. The wait list is huge so is difficult to get off. My advice is to stay away from generic reasons like school sports but "you do you".

Common App Essay Theme - should make you seem like a fit. Lots of ways to do that. I'd highly advise coming across as collaborative, friendly, nice, with leadership potential. That's what sells well here.

For Ross - based on student videos - they carefully evaluate "Why Business" and look at ECs with a skeptical eye. If you look like you were prepping for pre-law (Mock Trial) or med school (HOSA) or had no ECs related to business, they will be noting down question marks.

There is an ex-Michigan AO who does college admissions consulting. She has a free moderated Facebook group. I read it last year. I am not a paying customer. My kid didn't use any paid application support. Her business is "Empowered 4 College". You might get some more free tips from that site or her Facebook discussion board.

I also want to suggest looking into Indiana-Bloomington and Pitt for a student interested in Michigan LSA or business. I went to Pitt undergrad. One of the Ross Marketing professors from my MBA days is now the Pitt business school dean. He was well-liked at Ross. I work with a lot of Kelley MBAs, and they are well thought of.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

I have an MBA from Ross. I'm a parent of a current LSA freshman (who is not interested in Ross). I've watched YouTube videos of Ross admits talking about their application reviews.

I guess the number of LSA applications could drop but that might even be because it's not a championship season anymore. Sports wins actually drive "hey, why not" apps.

Ross interests interact with Economics in LSA. To the extent that one's app would be tailored to Economics, there probably will be less competition for an applicant discussing interest in that area than there would have been a few years ago.

I am not sure what the population is of people who like the strategy of presenting their goal as a small, rare major, only to pivot and seek an in-demand major. That type of person's luck seems to be worsening at Michigan. Several majors have moved to direct admit or "can only apply once". I wouldn't recommend that hack.

However, people were already warned in the past couple years that the number of slots for LSA to Ross transfers (those not pre-admitted at LSA matriculation) is small. Based on 2022 stats, they took about 100 students as internal transfers, with an even gender split. Those odds already did a lot to discourage people applying to LSA just to try to backdoor into Ross. So maybe that's not a big factor.

Here's my personal take on admissions criteria. You can see what the Common Data Set says officially. My POV may differ.

SAT - anything above 1500 probably doesn't sway selection extra hard. They know you are smart. 1430-ish + probably fine (that is Nat'l Merit Commended level). It's not clear whether OOSers really have to meet a higher SAT threshold or whether there's an OOS application & yield bias, exacerbated by the high cost of OOS tuition.

GPA - there are hard cutoffs here. Probably around 3.8/3.9 unweighted and you must calc using Michigan's own method. Not clear if any adjustments are made "by hand" by the admissions officers for specific schools. Lower GPA could be disqualifying...3.75, etc. Look at your school's Naviance or SCOIR.

AP Test Scores - I don't think these matter. Sorry DMV. In-state districts mostly don't emphasize these or offer the wide selection that DMV districts do. Credits are only sort of useful for LSA. But do save money if you want to graduate early. Having lots of 5s is probably pretty correlated with SAT over 1500...so not new info.

AP Classes - just indicates "most rigor". You can take IB or Community College or any other extra that shows rigor. This is more important than AP scores.

Class Rank - this is a product of grades. I don't think they always take the highest rank people. I think they are more interested in what you plan to study. The problem is that a lot of OOSers want the same majors. If you have intra-school competition with a similar profile, grades are a separator. But ranked #8 vs. #3 is probably not going to matter. At our in-state school they took 25 kids - all from the top 10% of the class.

Why School Essay + Demonstrated Interest - if you don't have strong results here (go to webinars to show DI !) you may be mistaken for a person who is applying to every decent school. There are a ton of those people now. They get wait listed if their profile is interesting, but look unlikely to attend. The wait list is huge so is difficult to get off. My advice is to stay away from generic reasons like school sports but "you do you".

Common App Essay Theme - should make you seem like a fit. Lots of ways to do that. I'd highly advise coming across as collaborative, friendly, nice, with leadership potential. That's what sells well here.

For Ross - based on student videos - they carefully evaluate "Why Business" and look at ECs with a skeptical eye. If you look like you were prepping for pre-law (Mock Trial) or med school (HOSA) or had no ECs related to business, they will be noting down question marks.

There is an ex-Michigan AO who does college admissions consulting. She has a free moderated Facebook group. I read it last year. I am not a paying customer. My kid didn't use any paid application support. Her business is "Empowered 4 College". You might get some more free tips from that site or her Facebook discussion board.

I also want to suggest looking into Indiana-Bloomington and Pitt for a student interested in Michigan LSA or business. I went to Pitt undergrad. One of the Ross Marketing professors from my MBA days is now the Pitt business school dean. He was well-liked at Ross. I work with a lot of Kelley MBAs, and they are well thought of.

Good luck!

This was thoughtful and helpful. Thank you! I have been told by 2 people that the 100 sophomore internal transfers from LSA tend to be heavily first gen, URM, etc. and they pick kids that help round out the numbers in diversity. I think they target applications from first gen MLCs (living learning communities). So transferring into Ross second year is close to impossible as well.

[Anonymous]

The Ross app is super hideous. Not sure my kid will muster the will to complete it by 11/1. Not even sure what a portfolio artifact is myself, not sure how a kid is supposed to come up with something? Only worse app in their stack is honors at Penn State (like 100 essays/short answers and similar odds OOS).

And earlier poster, thank you for the info. Unusually helpful for this message board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Ross app is super hideous. Not sure my kid will muster the will to complete it by 11/1. Not even sure what a portfolio artifact is myself, not sure how a kid is supposed to come up with something? Only worse app in their stack is honors at Penn State (like 100 essays/short answers and similar odds OOS).

And earlier poster, thank you for the info. Unusually helpful for this message board.

PP. The Michigan Ross MBA. I think the portfolio artifact might be an essay about an object that represents you, the applicant?

A lot of applying and interviewing (including for BBA and MBA jobs) requires answering unusual questions. When you get an essay that seems weird, you're being asked to show creativity, originality, and ability to do ridiculous intellectual exercises under pressure. Believe it or not, that's particularly relevant for interviewing for consulting. And consulting is one of the high-paying job types that a lot of BBAs (and the entire Ivy League) tend to go into. So, while it might seem a bit brainstraining, it's a fair exercise as far as comparing candidates. I would recommend looking up videos on Youtube by admitted Ross students where they talked about what they picked.

I'm going to offer you a piece of unsolicited advice. I mentioned I went to Pitt undergrad in parent times. I started in the Honors College at Penn State and I was not happy there at all. Classes were fine, and some profs were very nice to me, but disrespect for the Liberal Arts college, the alcohol-centric social scene, dorm-related personal safety concerns, and the nowheresville aspect of the campus were problematic. I would definitely recommend Michigan and Pitt over Penn State for any kids who hope to focus on intellectual stuff at college. Do not send a kid who likes city amenities to PSU. I was raised garden variety suburban but I learned I don't like homogenous suburban-teen-dominated monocultures at Penn State. I doubt that's evolved even though it's been quite awhile. The basic geography and demography are unchanging. All big schools are not the same. There are differences and they matter.