Michigan LSA - easier to get in than Ross?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many tech interviews are standardized now. Tests plus certificates etc.

Consulting largely standardized now too.

PP. My peers who practiced for consulting interviews actually practiced whiteboard skills. Being able to keep your train of thought while standing in front of a whiteboard (drawing diagrams or making outlines) and fielding questions. Professors certainly have to do this, but there is no application of "advanced walk, talk, and draw on whiteboard" at my corporate workplace that would impact one's work effectiveness. Not talking about everyday collaboration with an incidental sketch or two or even executive presentation skills. It was basically a consultant's version of training to be a runway model - to "look like a consultant". It was horrifying and funny.

This happened in the last 15 years?

Just Google case interview whiteboard practice free.

It has started to go virtual too...

https://www.preplounge.com/en/consulting-forum/using-zoom-whiteboard-for-case-interview-8491

you're linking a page about covid era zoom practices.

Remote work and no-fly consulting are things.

Our VP of HR (F500) is fully wfh

Sure, but the interview and test round process is still in person. They even fly kids in for interviews. But the "how many golf balls in Idaho stuff" is pretty outdated. There are a lot more skills assessment rounds.

Umm these are the questions they ask freshman for the competitive ECs/clubs on campus….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

Ross takes applications for freshman now? When I went you applied when you were a sophomore. There wasn’t a 4-year business program.

Yes, Ross does direct admit for freshmen now. You can also apply after freshmen year for transfer into Ross

Wow. This seems like a step in the wrong direction. OP, I would apply to LS&A and transfer in. Have child figure out whether business school is truly what they want to do.

-Michigan Engineering Alum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many tech interviews are standardized now. Tests plus certificates etc.

Consulting largely standardized now too.

PP. My peers who practiced for consulting interviews actually practiced whiteboard skills. Being able to keep your train of thought while standing in front of a whiteboard (drawing diagrams or making outlines) and fielding questions. Professors certainly have to do this, but there is no application of "advanced walk, talk, and draw on whiteboard" at my corporate workplace that would impact one's work effectiveness. Not talking about everyday collaboration with an incidental sketch or two or even executive presentation skills. It was basically a consultant's version of training to be a runway model - to "look like a consultant". It was horrifying and funny.

This happened in the last 15 years?

Just Google case interview whiteboard practice free.

It has started to go virtual too...

https://www.preplounge.com/en/consulting-forum/using-zoom-whiteboard-for-case-interview-8491

you're linking a page about covid era zoom practices.

Remote work and no-fly consulting are things.

Our VP of HR (F500) is fully wfh

Sure, but the interview and test round process is still in person. They even fly kids in for interviews. But the "how many golf balls in Idaho stuff" is pretty outdated. There are a lot more skills assessment rounds.

Umm these are the questions they ask freshman for the competitive ECs/clubs on campus….

Weird. My kid went through the McKinsey process within the last year. McKinsey's process is multi-step with online, gamified assessment weighing the heaviest. They have a case study assessment too , but my kid said his high school debate skills were all he needed for that. He got an offer, but went elsewhere..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious to see what in-state kids do. UofM is the top choice for a lot of them, and I could see them forgoing a Ross application if it meant potentially not getting in when you have a good chance at LSA based on high school historical results.

I went to high school in Michigan. My best friend went to UofM- Ross. 28 ACT, a couple AP classes, good gpa, one high school sport, that’s about it. We graduated high school in 2001. My, how times have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

63k oos tuition for LSA is absurd: go to a fancy private school for 4 years — for the same price.

Agree. OOS Michigan return is not worth going there. Now if you can pass, tackle, or punt, that's different.

[Anonymous]

UMich has a few mandates that they actively seek to achieve. Ross is 50% minority students. Please do consider that fact as you and your child make decisions about enrollment chances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UMich has a few mandates that they actively seek to achieve. Ross is 50% minority students. Please do consider that fact as you and your child make decisions about enrollment chances.

+2 50% URM, 50% in state and 50% female. All good, but just know it is almost impossible to get in if you are a white, OOS male. Also, they only take 100 transfer students from LSA. So divide that number up (in state, URM, female) and not many spots for transferring in second year either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

Ross takes applications for freshman now? When I went you applied when you were a sophomore. There wasn’t a 4-year business program.

Yes, Ross does direct admit for freshmen now. You can also apply after freshmen year for transfer into Ross

Extremely difficult to transfer in as they only take 100 transfers after freshman year. If you really want business/Ross, you should apply direct. If you really want Michigan, apply to LSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

Ross takes applications for freshman now? When I went you applied when you were a sophomore. There wasn’t a 4-year business program.

PP. It has totally changed due to overwhelming demand. And has now morphed to direct admit for freshmen as the main admit method for Ross.

I understand why this took so long to happen. I just checked the current BBA curriculum. It's very redundant with MBA. Kids just want the big $ jobs that come with BBAs from a good school and the more reliable success of a business school career center. I still prefer my path of Econ BA and MBA later. Even then I had some redundant classes due to starting a business dual major. That was a waste. I stopped the dual major when I became convinced I would eventually get an MBA.

My kid wants to go into Public Policy but we have discussed a top-ranked MBA as an eventual failsafe if his preferred career ends up being unsatisfying or badly underpaid.

In my family, college is a time to follow your heart. 20s post-grad are for deciding what you actually like to do and experimenting. Late 20s is when you have to get serious about goals, finances, family, etc. I believe an undergrad BBA can teach a person quite a lot. But I prefer a more traditional undergrad liberal arts education. It's fair to say that my family strongly values ideas over financial return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many tech interviews are standardized now. Tests plus certificates etc.

Consulting largely standardized now too.

PP. My peers who practiced for consulting interviews actually practiced whiteboard skills. Being able to keep your train of thought while standing in front of a whiteboard (drawing diagrams or making outlines) and fielding questions. Professors certainly have to do this, but there is no application of "advanced walk, talk, and draw on whiteboard" at my corporate workplace that would impact one's work effectiveness. Not talking about everyday collaboration with an incidental sketch or two or even executive presentation skills. It was basically a consultant's version of training to be a runway model - to "look like a consultant". It was horrifying and funny.

This happened in the last 15 years?

Just Google case interview whiteboard practice free.

It has started to go virtual too...

https://www.preplounge.com/en/consulting-forum/using-zoom-whiteboard-for-case-interview-8491

you're linking a page about covid era zoom practices.

Remote work and no-fly consulting are things.

Our VP of HR (F500) is fully wfh

Sure, but the interview and test round process is still in person. They even fly kids in for interviews. But the "how many golf balls in Idaho stuff" is pretty outdated. There are a lot more skills assessment rounds.

Umm these are the questions they ask freshman for the competitive ECs/clubs on campus….

Weird. My kid went through the McKinsey process within the last year. McKinsey's process is multi-step with online, gamified assessment weighing the heaviest. They have a case study assessment too , but my kid said his high school debate skills were all he needed for that. He got an offer, but went elsewhere..

Tell us more about the online, gamified assessment. Is it an online multi-candidate team goal exercise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMich has a few mandates that they actively seek to achieve. Ross is 50% minority students. Please do consider that fact as you and your child make decisions about enrollment chances.

+2 50% URM, 50% in state and 50% female. All good, but just know it is almost impossible to get in if you are a white, OOS male. Also, they only take 100 transfer students from LSA. So divide that number up (in state, URM, female) and not many spots for transferring in second year either.

.

OP here. Son is actually LSA oos. I was hoping the “standards” for LSA would be easier now that the Ross kids are separate. I realize it’s a drop in the bucket. What are your thoughts about a white maile oos 1500 sat rank 1/600, 13 Ap lots and lots of ECs including two varsity sports, health care volunteering (pre med) ( also applying unc, uva, Georgetown- safety thank God is auto admit to U Texas)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

Ross takes applications for freshman now? When I went you applied when you were a sophomore. There wasn’t a 4-year business program.

PP. It has totally changed due to overwhelming demand. And has now morphed to direct admit for freshmen as the main admit method for Ross.

I understand why this took so long to happen. I just checked the current BBA curriculum. It's very redundant with MBA. Kids just want the big $ jobs that come with BBAs from a good school and the more reliable success of a business school career center. I still prefer my path of Econ BA and MBA later. Even then I had some redundant classes due to starting a business dual major. That was a waste. I stopped the dual major when I became convinced I would eventually get an MBA.

My kid wants to go into Public Policy but we have discussed a top-ranked MBA as an eventual failsafe if his preferred career ends up being unsatisfying or badly underpaid.

In my family, college is a time to follow your heart. 20s post-grad are for deciding what you actually like to do and experimenting. Late 20s is when you have to get serious about goals, finances, family, etc. I believe an undergrad BBA can teach a person quite a lot. But I prefer a more traditional undergrad liberal arts education. It's fair to say that my family strongly values ideas over financial return.

I think it’s commendable that Michigan Ross went to direct admit for freshmen. If you really want business, then it’s good to know you don’t have to sweat it out for a year in LSA. Conversely if you really want LSA, it should become a bit easier now to matriculate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I promise this is not a troll post because there's been so much Michigan bashing, but from oos (not Michigan) And this group has more info about Michigan than I've ever seen.
Now that Ross is separate, should LSA be easier to get into? What do you think Michigan looks at most: Class rank, grades, SAT, AP scores?

I have an MBA from Ross. I'm a parent of a current LSA freshman (who is not interested in Ross). I've watched YouTube videos of Ross admits talking about their application reviews.

I guess the number of LSA applications could drop but that might even be because it's not a championship season anymore. Sports wins actually drive "hey, why not" apps.

Ross interests interact with Economics in LSA. To the extent that one's app would be tailored to Economics, there probably will be less competition for an applicant discussing interest in that area than there would have been a few years ago.

I am not sure what the population is of people who like the strategy of presenting their goal as a small, rare major, only to pivot and seek an in-demand major. That type of person's luck seems to be worsening at Michigan. Several majors have moved to direct admit or "can only apply once". I wouldn't recommend that hack.

However, people were already warned in the past couple years that the number of slots for LSA to Ross transfers (those not pre-admitted at LSA matriculation) is small. Based on 2022 stats, they took about 100 students as internal transfers, with an even gender split. Those odds already did a lot to discourage people applying to LSA just to try to backdoor into Ross. So maybe that's not a big factor.

Here's my personal take on admissions criteria. You can see what the Common Data Set says officially. My POV may differ.

SAT - anything above 1500 probably doesn't sway selection extra hard. They know you are smart. 1430-ish + probably fine (that is Nat'l Merit Commended level). It's not clear whether OOSers really have to meet a higher SAT threshold or whether there's an OOS application & yield bias, exacerbated by the high cost of OOS tuition.

GPA - there are hard cutoffs here. Probably around 3.8/3.9 unweighted and you must calc using Michigan's own method. Not clear if any adjustments are made "by hand" by the admissions officers for specific schools. Lower GPA could be disqualifying...3.75, etc. Look at your school's Naviance or SCOIR.

AP Test Scores - I don't think these matter. Sorry DMV. In-state districts mostly don't emphasize these or offer the wide selection that DMV districts do. Credits are only sort of useful for LSA. But do save money if you want to graduate early. Having lots of 5s is probably pretty correlated with SAT over 1500...so not new info.

AP Classes - just indicates "most rigor". You can take IB or Community College or any other extra that shows rigor. This is more important than AP scores.

Class Rank - this is a product of grades. I don't think they always take the highest rank people. I think they are more interested in what you plan to study. The problem is that a lot of OOSers want the same majors. If you have intra-school competition with a similar profile, grades are a separator. But ranked #8 vs. #3 is probably not going to matter. At our in-state school they took 25 kids - all from the top 10% of the class.

Why School Essay + Demonstrated Interest - if you don't have strong results here (go to webinars to show DI !) you may be mistaken for a person who is applying to every decent school. There are a ton of those people now. They get wait listed if their profile is interesting, but look unlikely to attend. The wait list is huge so is difficult to get off. My advice is to stay away from generic reasons like school sports but "you do you".

Common App Essay Theme - should make you seem like a fit. Lots of ways to do that. I'd highly advise coming across as collaborative, friendly, nice, with leadership potential. That's what sells well here.

For Ross - based on student videos - they carefully evaluate "Why Business" and look at ECs with a skeptical eye. If you look like you were prepping for pre-law (Mock Trial) or med school (HOSA) or had no ECs related to business, they will be noting down question marks.

There is an ex-Michigan AO who does college admissions consulting. She has a free moderated Facebook group. I read it last year. I am not a paying customer. My kid didn't use any paid application support. Her business is "Empowered 4 College". You might get some more free tips from that site or her Facebook discussion board.

I also want to suggest looking into Indiana-Bloomington and Pitt for a student interested in Michigan LSA or business. I went to Pitt undergrad. One of the Ross Marketing professors from my MBA days is now the Pitt business school dean. He was well-liked at Ross. I work with a lot of Kelley MBAs, and they are well thought of.

Good luck!

Thank you for this detailed info.

Is it true that most in-the-know college counselors like Michigan early action applications submitted before October 15?