Reza Aslan: Sam Harris and "New Atheists" aren't new, aren't even atheists
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Anonymous
| Atheists don’t want to live in countries with state mandated atheism. |
Anonymous
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No one can deny that many of the founding fathers of the United States of America were men of deep religious convictions based in the Bible and faith in Jesus Christ. Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees.
George Washington 1st U.S. President "While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." --The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343 John Adams 2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence "Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." --Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9. "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty... "Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson. John Hancock 1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence "Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." --History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229. Benjamin Franklin Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution "Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them. "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see; "But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure." --Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790. Samuel Adams Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution "And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace." --As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797 ames Madison 4th U.S. President "A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest while we are building ideal monuments of Renown and Bliss here we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven." --Written to William Bradford on November 9, 1772, Faith of Our Founding Fathers by Tim LaHaye, pp. 130-131; Christianity and the Constitution — The Faith of Our Founding Fathers by John Eidsmoe, p. 98. John Quincy Adams 6th U.S. President "The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)." --Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248. William Penn Founder of Pennsylvania "I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect. They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself." --Treatise of the Religion of the Quakers, p. 355. Roger Sherman Signer of the Declaration of Independence and United States Constitution "I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him. That God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, so as thereby he is not the author or approver of sin. That he creates all things, and preserves and governs all creatures and all their actions, in a manner perfectly consistent with the freedom of will in moral agents, and the usefulness of means. That he made man at first perfectly holy, that the first man sinned, and as he was the public head of his posterity, they all became sinners in consequence of his first transgression, are wholly indisposed to that which is good and inclined to evil, and on account of sin are liable to all the miseries of this life, to death, and to the pains of hell forever. "I believe that God having elected some of mankind to eternal life, did send his own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind, so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the gospel offer: also by his special grace and spirit, to regenerate, sanctify and enable to persevere in holiness, all who shall be saved; and to procure in consequence of their repentance and faith in himself their justification by virtue of his atonement as the only meritorious cause... --The Life of Roger Sherman, pp. 272-273. Benjamin Rush Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution "The gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!" --The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166. "If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into all the world would have been unnecessary. The perfect morality of the gospel rests upon the doctrine which, though often controverted has never been refuted: I mean the vicarious life and death of the Son of God." --Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, published in 1798. Alexander Hamilton Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution "I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor." --Famous American Statesmen, p. 126 Patrick Henry Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." --The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii. "The Bible ... is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed." --Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402. John Jay 1st Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and President of the American Bible Society "By conveying the Bible to people thus circumstanced, we certainly do them a most interesting kindness. We thereby enable them to learn that man was originally created and placed in a state of happiness, but, becoming disobedient, was subjected to the degradation and evils which he and his posterity have since experienced. "The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer, in whom all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; that this Redeemer has made atonement 'for the sins of the whole world,' and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift and grace of God, not of our deserving, nor in our power to deserve." --In God We Trust—The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers, p. 379. "In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible." --American Statesman Series, p. 360. So although we have no state mandated religion, as communist governments mandate atheism, many of our founders were decidedly men of faith. |
Anonymous
In 1931 Hunter Miller completed a commission by the United States government to analyze United States' treaties and to explain how they function and what they mean to the United States' legal position in relationship with the rest of the world.[21] According to Hunter Miller's notes, "the Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic" and "Article 11 ... does not exist at all." "The Barbary Treaties : Tripoli 1796 - Hunter Miller's Notes". The Avalon Project at Yale Law School. Retrieved 2007-05-08. After comparing the United States' version by Barlow with the Arabic and the Italian version, Miller continues by claiming that: The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so. Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point. From this, Miller concludes: "A further and perhaps equal mystery is the fact that since 1797 the Barlow translation has been trustfully and universally accepted as the just equivalent of the Arabic ... yet evidence of the erroneous character of the Barlow translation has been in the archives of the Department of State since perhaps 1800 or thereabouts ..."However, as Miller noted: It is to be remembered that the Barlow translation is that which was submitted to the Senate (American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II, 18-19) and which is printed in the Statutes at Large and in treaty collections generally; it is that English text which in the United States has always been deemed the text of the treaty. Article 11 is stating that differing religious opinions shall not be considered a pretext for violating the treaty. It should be noted that the article is careful to point out that the United States had never engaged in any armed conflict with a Muslim nation. Consider this 1798 proclamation from President John Adams, who was president when the Treaty of Tripoli was ratified, which states, “[T]he safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him, but a duty whose natural influence is favorable to the promotion of that morality and piety without which social happiness can not [sic] exist nor the blessings of a free government be enjoyed.” |
Anonymous
Obviously the work of a Christian proselytizer, at the ready with Christian quotes. So what if some of them were "men of faith"! They developed a secular democracy. Plus, they weren't so Christian. Washington stopped attending church entirely when they noticed that he often left before communion. Jefferson was a deist, who developed the Jefferson Bible, which was the new testament with all the miracles taken out (on display a few years ago at the Smithsonian). Franklin was also a Deist and a Unitarian. Our founders were aware of the problems caused by religion in government and made sure to develop a democracy based on separation of Church and state. |
Anonymous
+1 Facts. All facts. |
Anonymous
I have been to China and have known Chinese students in the US. There are plenty of Christians in China -- Our tour guide was Christian -- talked about it openly -- and I saw numerous churches with steeples and crosses on top, and visited active Buddhist Temples. Other religions are accepted as well. According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China: Buddhism , Chinese Folk Religion and None (97%) Christianity (2.5%) Islam[note 2] (0.5%) China officially espouses state atheism,[4] but in reality many Chinese citizens, including Chinese Communist Party (CCP) members, practice some kind of Chinese folk religion. Chinese civilization has historically long been a cradle and host to a variety of the most enduring religio-philosophical traditions of the world. ... Under subsequent leaders, religious organisations were given more autonomy. The government formally recognizes five religions: Buddhism, Taoism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and Islam. In the early twenty-first century there has been increasing official recognition of Confucianism and Chinese folk religion as part of China's cultural inheritance. |
Anonymous
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In April 2021, Radio Free Asia reported that “authorities in China are detaining Christians in secretive, mobile ‘transformation’ facilities to make them renounce their faith.” According to that report, “A member of a Christian ‘house church’ in the southwestern province of Sichuan… said he was held in a facility run by the ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s United Front Work Department, working in tandem with the state security police, for 10 months after a raid on his church in 2018. It was a mobile facility, that could just set up in some basement somewhere. It was staffed by people from several different government departments.”
The man explained that “he was held in a windowless room for nearly 10 months, during which time he was beaten, verbally abused and ‘mentally tortured’ by staff, eventually resorting to self-harm by throwing himself against a wall.” He added that “They use really underhand methods. They threaten, insult and intimidate you.” These methods appear to be similar to the treatment described by Uyghurs held in concentration camps in Xinjiang, treatment that Beijing continues to strongly dispute. While the allegations are yet to be investigated, they add to the ever-growing evidence of the deteriorating treatment of religious groups in China. Recent reports suggested that Uyghurs have been subjected to killings, torture and abuse, rape and sexual violence, forced labor, forced abortions, forced sterilizations and much more. Other reports suggests that Falun Gong practitioners are subjected to forced organ harvesting. Christians are subject to various methods of discrimination and persecution in China. Christians often complain of the closures of churches, bans on the sale of bibles online, the removal of crosses and the arrest of priests and worshipers. Reports also suggest there are plans to “contextualize” the Bible to make it more “culturally acceptable” and for Christian preaching to be adapted to include the core values of socialism. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2021/05/05/are-christians-in-china-next-in-line-for-re-education/amp/ China forcefully harvests organs from detainees, tribunal concludes China's organ transplant trade is worth $1 billion a year, according to a tribunal. This story contains details some may find distressing. LONDON — The organs of members of marginalized groups detained in Chinese prison camps are being forcefully harvested — sometimes when patients are still alive, an international tribunal sitting in London has concluded. Some of the more than 1.5 million detainees in Chinese prison camps are being killed for their organs to serve a booming transplant trade that is worth some $1 billion a year, concluded the China Tribunal, an independent body tasked with investigating organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience in the authoritarian state. Forced organ harvesting has been committed for years throughout China on a significant scale,” the tribunal concluded in its final judgment Monday. The practice is “of unmatched wickedness — on a death for death basis — with the killings by mass crimes committed in the last century,” it added. In a statement released alongside the final judgment, the tribunal said many of those affected were practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual discipline that China banned in the 1990s and has called an “evil cult.” The tribunal added that it was possible that Uighur Muslims — an ethnic minority who are currently being detained in vast numbers in western China — were also being targeted. Falun Gong practitioners have been one — and probably the main — source of organ supply,” the judgment read, while “the concerted persecution and medical testing of the Uyghurs is more recent,” using a different spelling of the minority group's name. It warned, however, that the scale of medical testing of the Uighur Muslims meant they could end up being used as an "organ bank." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1018646 The tribunal concluded that it was "beyond reasonable doubt" that crimes against humanity had been committed against the Falun Gong and Uighur Muslims but that it could not prove that the killing of the Falun Gong amounted to genocide — because of the tribunal's inability to prove ‘intent’ to commit ‘genocide.’ “It is no longer a question of whether organ harvesting in China is happening, that dialogue is well and truly over. We need an urgent response to save these people’s lives,” Susie Hughes, executive director and co-founder of the coalition, said. New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China According to a new report from Amnesty International published Thursday, the Chinese government's actions against people in Muslim minority groups in the country constitute crimes against humanity. The report details systematic state-organized mass imprisonment, torture and persecution against people in Xinjiang province, including Uyghurs and Kazakhs. It also details the extensive cover-up efforts by the Chinese government. https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china And may I ask, is there any particular detail that has most stayed with you? Yes, unfortunately, about 17 or 18 of the former detainees who Amnesty interviewed were interrogated and physically tortured while immobilized in tiger chairs, essentially steel chairs where your hands and your feet are affixed to the chair and you're completely immobilized. I don’t know who needs to hear this, but China is an atheist state that commits genocide against religious people and is very bad for people who have any religion. |
Anonymous
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Celebrity atheists such as Richard Dawkins appear to claim the moral high ground when it comes to violence. Dawkins, along with Sam Harris and the late Christopher Hitchens, insist that because religion is intrinsically violent, then atheism is inherently more pacific. After all, if all the evils in the world can be blamed on religion, then arguably eliminating religion is not only desirable but a moral obligation for atheists who believe in peace.
Yet our research shows that in the War on Terror, these atheists have been surprisingly willing to align themselves with policies which are at least as violent – and in some cases more so – than many of those perpetrated in the name of religion. Our study (jointly conducted by a Christian, an agnostic and an atheist) involved analysing the writing of Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens – the so-called “New Atheists”. We sought to establish their positions on US and UK foreign policy since the September 2001 attacks. We critically examined their bestselling books, along with their op-eds, social media posts and videos, to ascertain their positions – not on science or morality – but on politics, especially foreign policy. They each argue that religion inherently incites violence, whereas atheism is more peaceful. This modern European atheism promised emancipation from superstition – but quickly morphed into extreme violence. At the apex of the French Revolution, the Jacobin government implemented the original “reign of terror” in its murderous effort to impose state atheism. The early USSR’s campaign against religion, spearheaded by “The League of Militant Atheists”, involved the violent persecution of religious believers and institutions. Our research demonstrates the paradox that although New Atheists claim that their ideology is more enlightened and peaceful than religion, they often end up advocating violence. This is because they exhibit a simplistic view of the world as being divided between two civilisations – secular and religious – which cannot coexist. In this, ironically, they arguably mirror the hardline religious leaders whom they so vociferously denounce. https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/why-the-arguments-of-the-new-atheists-are-often-just-as-violent-as-religion-95185 It’s incredibly disingenuous to claim atheism is peaceful with research like this, coupled with the facts and evidence of what happens to people who live in state mandated atheist countries. |
Anonymous
People, irrespective of religious beliefs, can be very cruel -- or very kind. Unfortunately some religions use their beliefs as an excuse for killing people, sometimes innocent children. |
Anonymous
Not impressed with this "research" being indicative of atheist viewpoints. It looks at some of the views of a few prominent atheist authors, who unlike heads of state or clergy, have no organized government or organized beliefs behind them. There are just people who read their books, and/or like their point of view. Sam Harris is a neuroscientist who is into eastern spirituality, Dawkins is a zoologist and esteemed retired Oxford professor and Hitchens was a well-known author. They have killed no one, nor have they espoused mass killing, so they can't be accused of being violent. This is unlike the God of the Bible, who killed whole populations. |
Anonymous
China has done some very bad things. So has the US -- and other countries have too. The Crusaders killed non-christians, simply for being non-Christian. But really, it looks like people look for any excuse to kill people they want to get rid of for some reason -- like the American settlers killed the Indians because they wanted their land. Actually, I think most of the people reading here realize that, so Christian proselytizer is wasting her time writing these long posts. |
Anonymous
| But again; no atheist, agnostic, or anti-theist posting here wants to live in a country with state mandated atheism. It’s really quite ironic and highly hypocritical. |
Anonymous
While I agree 100% with your sentiment, the only flaw in your logic is that most of those biblical genocides - like the global flood - never really happened. |
Anonymous
Right -- but a lot of Christians believe that these things did happen! And they are fine with it -- because God did it. |
Anonymous
True -- it's just scaremonger Christian apologist proselytizer going nuts over non-existent state mandated athiesm, which even China doesn't have. |