Smart, underachieving kid, need merit aid, so frustrated!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

To New Mexico? Yes. To Vandy or Emory? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

Not as familiar but look at automatic merit scholarships offered by state schools like U Alabama, U Kentucky, ASU, etc. They seem to award generous scholarships based on GPA/test scores. Some of these large state schools also have honors colleges, which can imitate LACs with highly motivated, high-achieving students and close contact with professors.

Is there still time for your kid to add on some meaningful ECs? You mentioned that she does have a few, but you don't seem as impressed by them. This is a reminder for parents of younger high schoolers not to meddle too much in their affairs but to encourage them to seek out connections & opportunities in their school and community. This is important not just for getting into college but also for gaining experience, giving back, and discovering new interests.

I wouldn't have called her likely to get into the Ivies/NESCACs because those schools get thousands of applications from academically high-achieving students and really value ECs as a way of differentiating students and figuring out what they would be involved with on campus. Can your daughter see herself joining any clubs once on campus? Sometimes that pops up as a question on the Common App/specific applications. Some state schools don't care at all (Pitt never asked about my ECs in 2019) but smaller LACs and universities want to see how applicants will fit in on campus and contribute to campus life and culture.

I'm one of the posters who got multiple generous scholarship offers from LACs and I didn't consider myself over-zealous when it came to ECs, but I still did a couple of sports, volunteering, working during the summer, and some school clubs. It was an adjustment for students during the pandemic, but I believe there are generally opportunities available - volunteering for a local campaign, tutoring kids in math, babysitting, etc. Urge her to seek out opportunities according to her interests and remind her that effort can help to get her where she wants to be - ex: a smaller college - and shape her as a person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

To New Mexico? Yes. To Vandy or Emory? No.

Second this. Merit scholarships at elite institutions like Vandy, Duke, WashU, etc is hard to get and is mainly reserved for luring away outstanding and competitive applicants from HYPSM and the like. So yeah, these scholarships expect leadership involvement and much more.

https://www.thecollegesolution.com/an-angry-mom-rails-against-elite-colleges/
https://www.thecollegesolution.com/different-scholarship-results-for-national-merit-finalists/

[Anonymous]

You’ve got two goals that are working at cross-purposes here. One is that you want to keep your kid motivated by giving her a cohort that is as smart as she is but more ambitious. The other is that you want significant merit aid. But why would a school that is filled with higher-performing kids give your kid substantial merit aid?

Something’s gotta give. You might be able to find a school where she gets merit aid, but not the cohort. I have a friend whose kids both went this route. One has been motivated by profs (hence my earlier suggestion that look at faculty in math and poli sci (as well as relevant adjacent fields) and find schools where her interests are a good match. The other was initially motivated by the desire to get the eff out of there and be among equally smart people in grad school.

Both are in programs that, in addition to giving significant merit aid, create a cohort among these standouts. (Cf honors colleges at state schools). That ultimately kicked in for kid #2 during second semester of sophomore year when kid was placed in an honors dorm and suddenly had what felt like a real peer group. Both kids have perfect college GPAs so far, on top of significant/interesting/very different ECs. (Neither did as well grade-wise in HS). All this said, neither program gave these kids a full ride. I think each awarded about $25K a year.

The alternative approach is a state school honors program. No merit aid required. And she gets the cohort you want for her and probably the faculty/coursework she needs/wants to pursue her interests.

Neither approach guarantees that she’ll be more motivated in college than she was in HS. Conversely, she might be more (or less or differently) motivated anyway. College is different from HS — no parental oversight, more choose-your-own-adventure, more diverse cohort, better-educated teachers, different fields of study, different location (which may be more or less enticing/distracting than home was).

Honestly, your worst-case scenario just isn’t scary. Nice, smart kid does what’s necessary and does it pretty well — then spends her free time doing other things she prefers. IRL, that counts for something — she’s employable, will have friends, hobbies, and probably be happier than she would be if she realized her “full potential” in whatever particular way you imagine. Personally, given the state of our economy and where things seem to be headed, I think the “pour all your energy and talent into work (or ‘success’)” model is going to create even more misery for our kids’ generation than it has for ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

I think I previously commented on this thread but in any event I think Op is seriously underestimating the caliber of students at these “second tier” schools. I know tons of kids who go to Pitt and many of them have stats equal to or above Op’s dd. My own dd goes to a “second tier” slac and many of her friends applied to top tier slac’s and Ivies - they had the EC’s and grades but just didn’t get in. Or they got a better financial package from the second tier slac. The academics are top notch. I also know someone who got a full ride to Vanderbilt- they are a supremely talented musician.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’ve got two goals that are working at cross-purposes here. One is that you want to keep your kid motivated by giving her a cohort that is as smart as she is but more ambitious. The other is that you want significant merit aid. But why would a school that is filled with higher-performing kids give your kid substantial merit aid?

Something’s gotta give. You might be able to find a school where she gets merit aid, but not the cohort. I have a friend whose kids both went this route. One has been motivated by profs (hence my earlier suggestion that look at faculty in math and poli sci (as well as relevant adjacent fields) and find schools where her interests are a good match. The other was initially motivated by the desire to get the eff out of there and be among equally smart people in grad school.

Both are in programs that, in addition to giving significant merit aid, create a cohort among these standouts. (Cf honors colleges at state schools). That ultimately kicked in for kid #2 during second semester of sophomore year when kid was placed in an honors dorm and suddenly had what felt like a real peer group. Both kids have perfect college GPAs so far, on top of significant/interesting/very different ECs. (Neither did as well grade-wise in HS). All this said, neither program gave these kids a full ride. I think each awarded about $25K a year.

The alternative approach is a state school honors program. No merit aid required. And she gets the cohort you want for her and probably the faculty/coursework she needs/wants to pursue her interests.

Neither approach guarantees that she’ll be more motivated in college than she was in HS. Conversely, she might be more (or less or differently) motivated anyway. College is different from HS — no parental oversight, more choose-your-own-adventure, more diverse cohort, better-educated teachers, different fields of study, different location (which may be more or less enticing/distracting than home was).

Honestly, your worst-case scenario just isn’t scary. Nice, smart kid does what’s necessary and does it pretty well — then spends her free time doing other things she prefers. IRL, that counts for something — she’s employable, will have friends, hobbies, and probably be happier than she would be if she realized her “full potential” in whatever particular way you imagine. Personally, given the state of our economy and where things seem to be headed, I think the “pour all your energy and talent into work (or ‘success’)” model is going to create even more misery for our kids’ generation than it has for ours.

This. My DS is a similar kid -- excellent GPA and test scores, little interest in ECs other than one service activity and some personal hobbies and hanging out with friends. He's going to VT in a STEM field and I'm sure he'll do fine and have a happy life.

[Anonymous]

If you make too much to qualify for need-based FA, can you cash-flow fund more of the school? or you have no savings so 29k per year is all you can do? Could you take out the loans to afford more school for her?

I say this as someone paying over 30k per year for daycare for 2 kids, so I am wondering why, at a high income, you are limited to 29k per year?

[Anonymous]

OP, you make peace with offering her what you can afford. She applies and gets into in-state, public option. Probably expand on this ~ a couple in-state, public options. Then apply widely, but with no promises of attendance if it turns out to be unreasonable re: cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
Here is DD's current list (OK, my list) based on the possibility that DD might get a large merit award from these schools.
Please comment if you think any of these private schools would not offer at least $30K in merit aid (or less at state schools) to a kid with my DDs stats.
TBS, DD is more likely than not to go to our state U. It's so much cheaper than any other option. We have nothing against our state U (my FIL is an alum), but DD wants a small school, so we're doing our best try and give her a choice.
I put together this list based on comments I've read on many threads here, and on College Confidential. Some parents reported their kid with similar stats got very large awards ($35K or more). But I don't know if that kid had extraordinary ECs or was a recruited athlete. DD has neither.
The list will get whittled down to about 10 schools.

Clark
Pitt
Wooster
Davidson
U Richmond
Lafayette
Lottery ticket school (Princeton or Harvard)
George Washington
University of Mary Washington
UMass Amherst
UDel
Kenyon
Oberlin
Muhlenberg
Ursinus
Penn State
Miami of Ohio
University of Vermont
Case Western
Connecticut College
Gettysburg

Hope this is helpful to other parents looking for merit aid.
BTW, merit aid is fickle. Some schools offer it, and then stop, and vice versa. It changes year by year.

My DD with stats lower than yours got merit from the following in your DD’s list:

Clark
Pitt
U of Richmond
Case Western
Connecticut College

[Anonymous]

Frankly, your kid will probably be quite challenged, and might get her socks blown off, if she ends up either at a Big State U honors program or at a small liberal arts college known for academics. The Big Ten is bigger than Michigan. The PAC 10 is bigger than Berkeley and UCLA. And so on. The honors programs at the less selective state universities are attract very strong students. Same for SLACs like Grinnell and even many of the Colleges that Change Lives.

[Anonymous]

8:31 post belongs in nearly every thread on DCUM. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I don't get why you think she should "appreciate" public school OP. It is free. You are not paying for it. Everyone has to pay taxes whether they have kids or not. You don't sound very smart to me. I bet your kid's stats are better than yours. You should "appreciate" that you have a nice average kid who will do just fine. Relax.

[Anonymous]

OP, she is an adult now and it is no longer your job/concern/burden if she "rises" to the occasion. This is on her going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

Not as familiar but look at automatic merit scholarships offered by state schools like U Alabama, U Kentucky, ASU, etc. They seem to award generous scholarships based on GPA/test scores. Some of these large state schools also have honors colleges, which can imitate LACs with highly motivated, high-achieving students and close contact with professors.

Is there still time for your kid to add on some meaningful ECs? You mentioned that she does have a few, but you don't seem as impressed by them. This is a reminder for parents of younger high schoolers not to meddle too much in their affairs but to encourage them to seek out connections & opportunities in their school and community. This is important not just for getting into college but also for gaining experience, giving back, and discovering new interests.

I wouldn't have called her likely to get into the Ivies/NESCACs because those schools get thousands of applications from academically high-achieving students and really value ECs as a way of differentiating students and figuring out what they would be involved with on campus. Can your daughter see herself joining any clubs once on campus? Sometimes that pops up as a question on the Common App/specific applications. Some state schools don't care at all (Pitt never asked about my ECs in 2019) but smaller LACs and universities want to see how applicants will fit in on campus and contribute to campus life and culture.

I'm one of the posters who got multiple generous scholarship offers from LACs and I didn't consider myself over-zealous when it came to ECs, but I still did a couple of sports, volunteering, working during the summer, and some school clubs. It was an adjustment for students during the pandemic, but I believe there are generally opportunities available - volunteering for a local campaign, tutoring kids in math, babysitting, etc. Urge her to seek out opportunities according to her interests and remind her that effort can help to get her where she wants to be - ex: a smaller college - and shape her as a person.

She cannot add meaningful ECs in one summer. EC take time and should be done throughout all of high school. Every AO can see trough the kid who just does something for one summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think she’s an underachiever? What would she need to do to achieve?

This is OP.

I'm worried DD won't be challenged in college. She rises to the level of the people around her.

She never works hard. I'm sorry if that sounds like a humble brag. I'm trying to do the best I can for my kid.

I worry she won't be challenged at second tier colleges that will offer her merit aid, but we can't afford the HYPSM or NESCAC colleges she'd be likely to get into.

She has a few ECs I didn't mention, academic classes she's done outside of school where she's really excelled, again, without trying very hard. It's her MO not to push herself because she's never had to.

DD's college list has been whittled down to Pitt, URichmond, Muhlenberg and Mary Washington, plus in-state schools.

I'm wondering about applying to colleges like Vandy and Emory that offer full-ride scholarships.

Is there any hope DD might win a full ride? She has no leadership, no clubs, no varsity sports. Just her intellect and she's a nice person. Does that count for anything?

Not as familiar but look at automatic merit scholarships offered by state schools like U Alabama, U Kentucky, ASU, etc. They seem to award generous scholarships based on GPA/test scores. Some of these large state schools also have honors colleges, which can imitate LACs with highly motivated, high-achieving students and close contact with professors.

Is there still time for your kid to add on some meaningful ECs? You mentioned that she does have a few, but you don't seem as impressed by them. This is a reminder for parents of younger high schoolers not to meddle too much in their affairs but to encourage them to seek out connections & opportunities in their school and community. This is important not just for getting into college but also for gaining experience, giving back, and discovering new interests.

I wouldn't have called her likely to get into the Ivies/NESCACs because those schools get thousands of applications from academically high-achieving students and really value ECs as a way of differentiating students and figuring out what they would be involved with on campus. Can your daughter see herself joining any clubs once on campus? Sometimes that pops up as a question on the Common App/specific applications. Some state schools don't care at all (Pitt never asked about my ECs in 2019) but smaller LACs and universities want to see how applicants will fit in on campus and contribute to campus life and culture.

I'm one of the posters who got multiple generous scholarship offers from LACs and I didn't consider myself over-zealous when it came to ECs, but I still did a couple of sports, volunteering, working during the summer, and some school clubs. It was an adjustment for students during the pandemic, but I believe there are generally opportunities available - volunteering for a local campaign, tutoring kids in math, babysitting, etc. Urge her to seek out opportunities according to her interests and remind her that effort can help to get her where she wants to be - ex: a smaller college - and shape her as a person.

She cannot add meaningful ECs in one summer. EC take time and should be done throughout all of high school. Every AO can see trough the kid who just does something for one summer.

PP here and I totally understand that since I went thru the process a couple of years ago. My point was that at this point, as you said, it's not quite possible to do many things to enhance your application but it's not a bad time to start thinking about your passions and interests that you might want to pursue long-term. I'm curious as to how this kid spends her time if she isn't very involved in extracurriculars and allegedly doesn't achieve her academic potential. Even if her late efforts don't help her application, it's still valuable to learn more about what you're interested in and college is a clean slate for picking up new activities and hobbies.