Washington Post Slams FCPS for Racist Magnet School

[Anonymous]

To add: I don’t see how there’s won’t be serious changes. The governor has set up a commission and the state legislature will soon be as progressive as California’s. Game’s changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t a bunch of white men set up TJ in the 80s in part as a way of demonstrating to tech companies and the like that nova was not some hick backwater and that it was open for business? Seems to have worked amazingly well. Along the way, it seems like some whites have grown agitated that they miss out on the bumper sticker and, by extension, navy and orange gear down the road, because of Asian representation. Call me skeptical of white support for big changes now. Gotta be an agenda.

First, you are confusing correlation with causation, and second it is a canard to claim only white people care about TJ’s current status and admissions policies. You might want to take a look at the education agenda of the Fairfax NAACP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how little people actually know about this topic.

The reason why the TJ admissions process advantages Asian students is because, generally and culturally speaking, our parents prioritize prestige in education (note - there's a difference between prestige in education and quality in education, and they value the former to a MUCH greater extent) - therefore we are willing to make sacrifices in order to maximize the opportunity to attain that prestige. If FCPS wants to solve this problem (and they should), they need to minimize the influence of PARENTS in the admissions process.

Asian students are not inherently smarter than anyone else, and they do not work harder than anyone else - to suggest otherwise is blatantly and unforgivably racist. But the TJ admissions process limits the idea of "merit" to grades, GPA, exam performance, STEM extracurriculars, and well-written teacher recommendations from specific schools that major in getting kids into TJ. Asian families know this, and are far more willing as a group to streamline our childrens' elementary and middle school careers to optimize their chances for admission.

FCPS needs to have a serious conversation about what constitutes merit. The culture within the school is toxic and hyper-competitive, which has now led to a second suicide in the past couple of years, and it is so because there are too many students who all took the same path to get to TJ in the first place. The fact that most of them are Asian is not to blame - what is to blame is an admissions process that rewards families who are willing to pre-determine their children's futures before they turn ten years old.

Most students at TJ are Asian because TJ is more important to Asian parents. The application numbers bear this out. Having parents who care about TJ from an early age is a privilege for students, and FCPS needs to reduce the influence of that privilege in the admissions process.

+ a million. The fact that Fairfax can't seem to produce black, Latino and/or poor kids who are accepted to TJ at measurable rates is 100 percent a failing of the school system.

(PP) I would just amend this to say - FCPS produces plenty of Black and Latinx students, and FARMS students, who could and would thrive at TJ if the culture there weren't actively hostile to them. It would be great if the students who do make it had plenty of others who looked like them, and if they didn't hear from white and Asian students on a daily basis that they were admitted only because of their race. But even the top students in those demographics are largely uninterested in TJ because they know that the culture there is poisonous and hostile to them.

And the other students at TJ have a lesser education as a consequence because they haven't been exposed to those different voices and perspectives in the educational process - and they become the tone-deaf posters that you see on sites like this.

This makes no sense.

You want Blacks and Hispanics to be accepted more into the school based on race but then don’t want anyone to think they were accepted because of their race.

It’s either merit or race. Pick your poison but then don’t complain about about what comes along with that choice.

I don't want them to be accepted because of their race. I want the admissions process to understand that merit takes a lot of different forms and that the ones that they're currently using disproportionately advantage Asian parents. Lived experience, battling through adversity, achieving more than your socioeconomic status would predict, overcoming racial barriers - those are all forms of merit and the TJ and STEM community would benefit from acknowledging the reality that's staring them in the face.

And before you tell me about YOUR lived experience overcoming these things as a parent - those are YOUR experiences, not your students, and they should not factor into this process. You are to be commended for coming to America with $300 and the shirt on your back, and I congratulate you for your tremendous success. Your child didn't do those things and YOU are not the one applying to TJ.

Well now you're putting barriers on what you find to be acceptable barriers to success versus the barriers that immigrant families have had. You're labeling one groups hardships against anothers in some sort of hardship war.

And you're saying it "disproportionately advantage Asian parents"? Really now one race's parents are to blame. Not the committee that decides who gets in and who doesn't. Asian parents are at an advantage because even with English as their second (or 3rd or 4th) language, they have learned what the admissions criteria is and made every effort for their kids to follow that criteria. Criteria that Asian parents DID NOT MAKE UP.

You're right, how dare these parents just follow the criteria rather than just demanding admittance.

What exactly do you want to see in the application process that would tangibly distinguish and discern these experiences and adversities while still being race blind? Is that possible? What lived experience and battles can go on this application of a young teenager that is strictly their hardship and NOT the hardships of their parents or that they've experience through their parents? How do they differentiate their overcoming of racial barriers against another minority groups overcoming racial barriers?

If it's not race blind and one particular group's hardships are more important than another's then you want them to be accepted because of their race.

[Anonymous]

Not that long ago FCPS said the best size for a county high school was 2100 kids. Now the average is well over 2300 and some schools like Chantilly and Oakton are close to 3000.

I don’t think it breaks the law to have a magnet, but it may well break to law to operate a renovated, spacious school for 1800 kids, almost none of whom are black, Hispanic, or lower-income, while other schools that serve different cohorts are overcrowded and under-resourced. It would be interesting to see how FCPS could use the additional seats for county students at TJ if it converted TJ back into a neighborhood school and then undertook county-wide boundary adjustments.

Of course, that’s only something that a School Board that actually cares about equity, as opposed to talks about equity, would consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

Yeah.. Talk to all the Blacks that went to a white majority high school and vice versa. I have a friend in his 50s that hates black people because his hippie mother wanted to raise them appreciating all cultures and raised them in an inner city neighborhood. Him and his brother supposedly got beaten up each day just for being white. I can assure you NOTHING close to any of this crap happens at TJ.

So you are friend with someone who admitted that he hates black people, is that right? Tell a lot about you.
He and his mother got beaten EACH DAY? Cool story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

Yeah.. Talk to all the Blacks that went to a white majority high school and vice versa. I have a friend in his 50s that hates black people because his hippie mother wanted to raise them appreciating all cultures and raised them in an inner city neighborhood. Him and his brother supposedly got beaten up each day just for being white. I can assure you NOTHING close to any of this crap happens at TJ.

They don't get beaten up, but they do get told that they're worthless and that they're sitting in a seat that should have belonged to one of their friends. I'd almost rather have someone try to beat me up.

Give me an effing break!! Kids at TJ do NOT do this. I am cracking up right now. What do you have against Asians that you want to spread falsehoods like this?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how little people actually know about this topic.

The reason why the TJ admissions process advantages Asian students is because, generally and culturally speaking, our parents prioritize prestige in education (note - there's a difference between prestige in education and quality in education, and they value the former to a MUCH greater extent) - therefore we are willing to make sacrifices in order to maximize the opportunity to attain that prestige. If FCPS wants to solve this problem (and they should), they need to minimize the influence of PARENTS in the admissions process.

Asian students are not inherently smarter than anyone else, and they do not work harder than anyone else - to suggest otherwise is blatantly and unforgivably racist. But the TJ admissions process limits the idea of "merit" to grades, GPA, exam performance, STEM extracurriculars, and well-written teacher recommendations from specific schools that major in getting kids into TJ. Asian families know this, and are far more willing as a group to streamline our childrens' elementary and middle school careers to optimize their chances for admission.

FCPS needs to have a serious conversation about what constitutes merit. The culture within the school is toxic and hyper-competitive, which has now led to a second suicide in the past couple of years, and it is so because there are too many students who all took the same path to get to TJ in the first place. The fact that most of them are Asian is not to blame - what is to blame is an admissions process that rewards families who are willing to pre-determine their children's futures before they turn ten years old.

Most students at TJ are Asian because TJ is more important to Asian parents. The application numbers bear this out. Having parents who care about TJ from an early age is a privilege for students, and FCPS needs to reduce the influence of that privilege in the admissions process.

+ a million. The fact that Fairfax can't seem to produce black, Latino and/or poor kids who are accepted to TJ at measurable rates is 100 percent a failing of the school system.

(PP) I would just amend this to say - FCPS produces plenty of Black and Latinx students, and FARMS students, who could and would thrive at TJ if the culture there weren't actively hostile to them. It would be great if the students who do make it had plenty of others who looked like them, and if they didn't hear from white and Asian students on a daily basis that they were admitted only because of their race. But even the top students in those demographics are largely uninterested in TJ because they know that the culture there is poisonous and hostile to them.

And the other students at TJ have a lesser education as a consequence because they haven't been exposed to those different voices and perspectives in the educational process - and they become the tone-deaf posters that you see on sites like this.

This makes no sense.

You want Blacks and Hispanics to be accepted more into the school based on race but then don’t want anyone to think they were accepted because of their race.

It’s either merit or race. Pick your poison but then don’t complain about about what comes along with that choice.

I don't want them to be accepted because of their race. I want the admissions process to understand that merit takes a lot of different forms and that the ones that they're currently using disproportionately advantage Asian parents. Lived experience, battling through adversity, achieving more than your socioeconomic status would predict, overcoming racial barriers - those are all forms of merit and the TJ and STEM community would benefit from acknowledging the reality that's staring them in the face.

And before you tell me about YOUR lived experience overcoming these things as a parent - those are YOUR experiences, not your students, and they should not factor into this process. You are to be commended for coming to America with $300 and the shirt on your back, and I congratulate you for your tremendous success. Your child didn't do those things and YOU are not the one applying to TJ.

Well now you're putting barriers on what you find to be acceptable barriers to success versus the barriers that immigrant families have had. You're labeling one groups hardships against anothers in some sort of hardship war.

And you're saying it "disproportionately advantage Asian parents"? Really now one race's parents are to blame. Not the committee that decides who gets in and who doesn't. Asian parents are at an advantage because even with English as their second (or 3rd or 4th) language, they have learned what the admissions criteria is and made every effort for their kids to follow that criteria. Criteria that Asian parents DID NOT MAKE UP.

You're right, how dare these parents just follow the criteria rather than just demanding admittance.

What exactly do you want to see in the application process that would tangibly distinguish and discern these experiences and adversities while still being race blind? Is that possible? What lived experience and battles can go on this application of a young teenager that is strictly their hardship and NOT the hardships of their parents or that they've experience through their parents? How do they differentiate their overcoming of racial barriers against another minority groups overcoming racial barriers?

If it's not race blind and one particular group's hardships are more important than another's then you want them to be accepted because of their race.

Nobody's hardships are more important than anyone else's. They're all valid. And no one reasonable blames Asian parents for taking advantage of the system as it's currently constructed (there are plenty of unreasonable people here who do - I'm not one of them). But there is inherent academic value in diversity, and the school needs to adjust its admissions policies (as many top universities already have) to create access points for outstanding students of all backgrounds. Harvard has correctly understood that their educational product has greater value when it exposes students to diverse perspectives. There are a lot of ways to define merit.

TJ should not have an admissions policy that encourages students to streamline their choices in activities before they even reach high school.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that favors spending thousands of dollars on prep classes.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that parents on WeChat spend countless hours dissecting to try to find every available possible advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

Yeah.. Talk to all the Blacks that went to a white majority high school and vice versa. I have a friend in his 50s that hates black people because his hippie mother wanted to raise them appreciating all cultures and raised them in an inner city neighborhood. Him and his brother supposedly got beaten up each day just for being white. I can assure you NOTHING close to any of this crap happens at TJ.

They don't get beaten up, but they do get told that they're worthless and that they're sitting in a seat that should have belonged to one of their friends. I'd almost rather have someone try to beat me up.

Give me an effing break!! Kids at TJ do NOT do this. I am cracking up right now. What do you have against Asians that you want to spread falsehoods like this?!

I actually didn't mention that it was Asians that do this, but it's fun that your mind went there. White kids did it for years back when TJ was a majority-white school. Asian kids do it now. If you don't know this, then you don't know what goes on at TJ and kindly take a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how little people actually know about this topic.

The reason why the TJ admissions process advantages Asian students is because, generally and culturally speaking, our parents prioritize prestige in education (note - there's a difference between prestige in education and quality in education, and they value the former to a MUCH greater extent) - therefore we are willing to make sacrifices in order to maximize the opportunity to attain that prestige. If FCPS wants to solve this problem (and they should), they need to minimize the influence of PARENTS in the admissions process.

Asian students are not inherently smarter than anyone else, and they do not work harder than anyone else - to suggest otherwise is blatantly and unforgivably racist. But the TJ admissions process limits the idea of "merit" to grades, GPA, exam performance, STEM extracurriculars, and well-written teacher recommendations from specific schools that major in getting kids into TJ. Asian families know this, and are far more willing as a group to streamline our childrens' elementary and middle school careers to optimize their chances for admission.

FCPS needs to have a serious conversation about what constitutes merit. The culture within the school is toxic and hyper-competitive, which has now led to a second suicide in the past couple of years, and it is so because there are too many students who all took the same path to get to TJ in the first place. The fact that most of them are Asian is not to blame - what is to blame is an admissions process that rewards families who are willing to pre-determine their children's futures before they turn ten years old.

Most students at TJ are Asian because TJ is more important to Asian parents. The application numbers bear this out. Having parents who care about TJ from an early age is a privilege for students, and FCPS needs to reduce the influence of that privilege in the admissions process.

+ a million. The fact that Fairfax can't seem to produce black, Latino and/or poor kids who are accepted to TJ at measurable rates is 100 percent a failing of the school system.

(PP) I would just amend this to say - FCPS produces plenty of Black and Latinx students, and FARMS students, who could and would thrive at TJ if the culture there weren't actively hostile to them. It would be great if the students who do make it had plenty of others who looked like them, and if they didn't hear from white and Asian students on a daily basis that they were admitted only because of their race. But even the top students in those demographics are largely uninterested in TJ because they know that the culture there is poisonous and hostile to them.

And the other students at TJ have a lesser education as a consequence because they haven't been exposed to those different voices and perspectives in the educational process - and they become the tone-deaf posters that you see on sites like this.

This makes no sense.

You want Blacks and Hispanics to be accepted more into the school based on race but then don’t want anyone to think they were accepted because of their race.

It’s either merit or race. Pick your poison but then don’t complain about about what comes along with that choice.

I don't want them to be accepted because of their race. I want the admissions process to understand that merit takes a lot of different forms and that the ones that they're currently using disproportionately advantage Asian parents. Lived experience, battling through adversity, achieving more than your socioeconomic status would predict, overcoming racial barriers - those are all forms of merit and the TJ and STEM community would benefit from acknowledging the reality that's staring them in the face.

And before you tell me about YOUR lived experience overcoming these things as a parent - those are YOUR experiences, not your students, and they should not factor into this process. You are to be commended for coming to America with $300 and the shirt on your back, and I congratulate you for your tremendous success. Your child didn't do those things and YOU are not the one applying to TJ.

Well now you're putting barriers on what you find to be acceptable barriers to success versus the barriers that immigrant families have had. You're labeling one groups hardships against anothers in some sort of hardship war.

And you're saying it "disproportionately advantage Asian parents"? Really now one race's parents are to blame. Not the committee that decides who gets in and who doesn't. Asian parents are at an advantage because even with English as their second (or 3rd or 4th) language, they have learned what the admissions criteria is and made every effort for their kids to follow that criteria. Criteria that Asian parents DID NOT MAKE UP.

You're right, how dare these parents just follow the criteria rather than just demanding admittance.

What exactly do you want to see in the application process that would tangibly distinguish and discern these experiences and adversities while still being race blind? Is that possible? What lived experience and battles can go on this application of a young teenager that is strictly their hardship and NOT the hardships of their parents or that they've experience through their parents? How do they differentiate their overcoming of racial barriers against another minority groups overcoming racial barriers?

If it's not race blind and one particular group's hardships are more important than another's then you want them to be accepted because of their race.

Nobody's hardships are more important than anyone else's. They're all valid. And no one reasonable blames Asian parents for taking advantage of the system as it's currently constructed (there are plenty of unreasonable people here who do - I'm not one of them). But there is inherent academic value in diversity, and the school needs to adjust its admissions policies (as many top universities already have) to create access points for outstanding students of all backgrounds. Harvard has correctly understood that their educational product has greater value when it exposes students to diverse perspectives. There are a lot of ways to define merit.

TJ should not have an admissions policy that encourages students to streamline their choices in activities before they even reach high school.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that favors spending thousands of dollars on prep classes.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that parents on WeChat spend countless hours dissecting to try to find every available possible advantage.

You're very good at saying what shouldn't be done. Do you have any idea on how to get it done?

I think you probably are of the mindset that the best way to do it is to stop certain people from applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how little people actually know about this topic.

The reason why the TJ admissions process advantages Asian students is because, generally and culturally speaking, our parents prioritize prestige in education (note - there's a difference between prestige in education and quality in education, and they value the former to a MUCH greater extent) - therefore we are willing to make sacrifices in order to maximize the opportunity to attain that prestige. If FCPS wants to solve this problem (and they should), they need to minimize the influence of PARENTS in the admissions process.

Asian students are not inherently smarter than anyone else, and they do not work harder than anyone else - to suggest otherwise is blatantly and unforgivably racist. But the TJ admissions process limits the idea of "merit" to grades, GPA, exam performance, STEM extracurriculars, and well-written teacher recommendations from specific schools that major in getting kids into TJ. Asian families know this, and are far more willing as a group to streamline our childrens' elementary and middle school careers to optimize their chances for admission.

FCPS needs to have a serious conversation about what constitutes merit. The culture within the school is toxic and hyper-competitive, which has now led to a second suicide in the past couple of years, and it is so because there are too many students who all took the same path to get to TJ in the first place. The fact that most of them are Asian is not to blame - what is to blame is an admissions process that rewards families who are willing to pre-determine their children's futures before they turn ten years old.

Most students at TJ are Asian because TJ is more important to Asian parents. The application numbers bear this out. Having parents who care about TJ from an early age is a privilege for students, and FCPS needs to reduce the influence of that privilege in the admissions process.

+ a million. The fact that Fairfax can't seem to produce black, Latino and/or poor kids who are accepted to TJ at measurable rates is 100 percent a failing of the school system.

(PP) I would just amend this to say - FCPS produces plenty of Black and Latinx students, and FARMS students, who could and would thrive at TJ if the culture there weren't actively hostile to them. It would be great if the students who do make it had plenty of others who looked like them, and if they didn't hear from white and Asian students on a daily basis that they were admitted only because of their race. But even the top students in those demographics are largely uninterested in TJ because they know that the culture there is poisonous and hostile to them.

And the other students at TJ have a lesser education as a consequence because they haven't been exposed to those different voices and perspectives in the educational process - and they become the tone-deaf posters that you see on sites like this.

This makes no sense.

You want Blacks and Hispanics to be accepted more into the school based on race but then don’t want anyone to think they were accepted because of their race.

It’s either merit or race. Pick your poison but then don’t complain about about what comes along with that choice.

I don't want them to be accepted because of their race. I want the admissions process to understand that merit takes a lot of different forms and that the ones that they're currently using disproportionately advantage Asian parents. Lived experience, battling through adversity, achieving more than your socioeconomic status would predict, overcoming racial barriers - those are all forms of merit and the TJ and STEM community would benefit from acknowledging the reality that's staring them in the face.

And before you tell me about YOUR lived experience overcoming these things as a parent - those are YOUR experiences, not your students, and they should not factor into this process. You are to be commended for coming to America with $300 and the shirt on your back, and I congratulate you for your tremendous success. Your child didn't do those things and YOU are not the one applying to TJ.

Well now you're putting barriers on what you find to be acceptable barriers to success versus the barriers that immigrant families have had. You're labeling one groups hardships against anothers in some sort of hardship war.

And you're saying it "disproportionately advantage Asian parents"? Really now one race's parents are to blame. Not the committee that decides who gets in and who doesn't. Asian parents are at an advantage because even with English as their second (or 3rd or 4th) language, they have learned what the admissions criteria is and made every effort for their kids to follow that criteria. Criteria that Asian parents DID NOT MAKE UP.

You're right, how dare these parents just follow the criteria rather than just demanding admittance.

What exactly do you want to see in the application process that would tangibly distinguish and discern these experiences and adversities while still being race blind? Is that possible? What lived experience and battles can go on this application of a young teenager that is strictly their hardship and NOT the hardships of their parents or that they've experience through their parents? How do they differentiate their overcoming of racial barriers against another minority groups overcoming racial barriers?

If it's not race blind and one particular group's hardships are more important than another's then you want them to be accepted because of their race.

Nobody's hardships are more important than anyone else's. They're all valid. And no one reasonable blames Asian parents for taking advantage of the system as it's currently constructed (there are plenty of unreasonable people here who do - I'm not one of them). But there is inherent academic value in diversity, and the school needs to adjust its admissions policies (as many top universities already have) to create access points for outstanding students of all backgrounds. Harvard has correctly understood that their educational product has greater value when it exposes students to diverse perspectives. There are a lot of ways to define merit.

TJ should not have an admissions policy that encourages students to streamline their choices in activities before they even reach high school.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that favors spending thousands of dollars on prep classes.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that parents on WeChat spend countless hours dissecting to try to find every available possible advantage.

TJ admissions system was based only on grades and the test scores some years back. In fact Stuyvesant HS uses only the test score and no other factors for admissions to their top magnet high school in NY. The fcps added subjective factors such as essays, SIS, LoR later (which are more important than the grades and test scores in the admissions process) in order to reduce Asian students and increase black and Hispanic students. In fact fcps is constantly thinking of ways to reduce Asian students and increase black/Hispanic students- they tried to institute a system of admitting a certain number of "top" students (top ~5%) from each of the middle school and that did not work out and fcps also tried to auto admit about 50 black/Hispanic students outside of the admissions process and that didn't work out either.

In fact, fcps has been trying to reduce Asian students for decades so it's not like they are not trying. We should really stop this racial discrimination against Asian Americans. It is reprehensible! In addition, TJ was not 30% Asian students when it first opened and not for a long time after it opened. Asian student population increased gradually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how little people actually know about this topic.

The reason why the TJ admissions process advantages Asian students is because, generally and culturally speaking, our parents prioritize prestige in education (note - there's a difference between prestige in education and quality in education, and they value the former to a MUCH greater extent) - therefore we are willing to make sacrifices in order to maximize the opportunity to attain that prestige. If FCPS wants to solve this problem (and they should), they need to minimize the influence of PARENTS in the admissions process.

Asian students are not inherently smarter than anyone else, and they do not work harder than anyone else - to suggest otherwise is blatantly and unforgivably racist. But the TJ admissions process limits the idea of "merit" to grades, GPA, exam performance, STEM extracurriculars, and well-written teacher recommendations from specific schools that major in getting kids into TJ. Asian families know this, and are far more willing as a group to streamline our childrens' elementary and middle school careers to optimize their chances for admission.

FCPS needs to have a serious conversation about what constitutes merit. The culture within the school is toxic and hyper-competitive, which has now led to a second suicide in the past couple of years, and it is so because there are too many students who all took the same path to get to TJ in the first place. The fact that most of them are Asian is not to blame - what is to blame is an admissions process that rewards families who are willing to pre-determine their children's futures before they turn ten years old.

Most students at TJ are Asian because TJ is more important to Asian parents. The application numbers bear this out. Having parents who care about TJ from an early age is a privilege for students, and FCPS needs to reduce the influence of that privilege in the admissions process.

+ a million. The fact that Fairfax can't seem to produce black, Latino and/or poor kids who are accepted to TJ at measurable rates is 100 percent a failing of the school system.

(PP) I would just amend this to say - FCPS produces plenty of Black and Latinx students, and FARMS students, who could and would thrive at TJ if the culture there weren't actively hostile to them. It would be great if the students who do make it had plenty of others who looked like them, and if they didn't hear from white and Asian students on a daily basis that they were admitted only because of their race. But even the top students in those demographics are largely uninterested in TJ because they know that the culture there is poisonous and hostile to them.

And the other students at TJ have a lesser education as a consequence because they haven't been exposed to those different voices and perspectives in the educational process - and they become the tone-deaf posters that you see on sites like this.

This makes no sense.

You want Blacks and Hispanics to be accepted more into the school based on race but then don’t want anyone to think they were accepted because of their race.

It’s either merit or race. Pick your poison but then don’t complain about about what comes along with that choice.

I don't want them to be accepted because of their race. I want the admissions process to understand that merit takes a lot of different forms and that the ones that they're currently using disproportionately advantage Asian parents. Lived experience, battling through adversity, achieving more than your socioeconomic status would predict, overcoming racial barriers - those are all forms of merit and the TJ and STEM community would benefit from acknowledging the reality that's staring them in the face.

And before you tell me about YOUR lived experience overcoming these things as a parent - those are YOUR experiences, not your students, and they should not factor into this process. You are to be commended for coming to America with $300 and the shirt on your back, and I congratulate you for your tremendous success. Your child didn't do those things and YOU are not the one applying to TJ.

Well now you're putting barriers on what you find to be acceptable barriers to success versus the barriers that immigrant families have had. You're labeling one groups hardships against anothers in some sort of hardship war.

And you're saying it "disproportionately advantage Asian parents"? Really now one race's parents are to blame. Not the committee that decides who gets in and who doesn't. Asian parents are at an advantage because even with English as their second (or 3rd or 4th) language, they have learned what the admissions criteria is and made every effort for their kids to follow that criteria. Criteria that Asian parents DID NOT MAKE UP.

You're right, how dare these parents just follow the criteria rather than just demanding admittance.

What exactly do you want to see in the application process that would tangibly distinguish and discern these experiences and adversities while still being race blind? Is that possible? What lived experience and battles can go on this application of a young teenager that is strictly their hardship and NOT the hardships of their parents or that they've experience through their parents? How do they differentiate their overcoming of racial barriers against another minority groups overcoming racial barriers?

If it's not race blind and one particular group's hardships are more important than another's then you want them to be accepted because of their race.

Nobody's hardships are more important than anyone else's. They're all valid. And no one reasonable blames Asian parents for taking advantage of the system as it's currently constructed (there are plenty of unreasonable people here who do - I'm not one of them). But there is inherent academic value in diversity, and the school needs to adjust its admissions policies (as many top universities already have) to create access points for outstanding students of all backgrounds. Harvard has correctly understood that their educational product has greater value when it exposes students to diverse perspectives. There are a lot of ways to define merit.

TJ should not have an admissions policy that encourages students to streamline their choices in activities before they even reach high school.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that favors spending thousands of dollars on prep classes.
TJ should not have an admissions policy that parents on WeChat spend countless hours dissecting to try to find every available possible advantage.

The poster to which the above was a response clearly outlined that which group had the hardship mattered. If that was you, you're doing a U turn. But as to this post, no reasonable Asian parent would disagree with those points either. They are playing within the rules of the cards that were dealt.

You are correct, there is inherent value in diversity. Most FFX county schools are very diverse and this is wonderful. It's the reason many people choose FFX county schools, for diversity.

There is also inherent value in a merit based school of kids with the same amount of drive and ability, which is what just ONE school of the hundreds in FFX are. I mean, just take a look at the mask compliance in a homogenous society like Korea against a diverse society in America. There is inherent value in diversity but there is also inherent value in a like minded atmosphere as well. Of course, there are downsides to both as well.

Just as there are schools in FFX for only the most disabled, those students that require more than just a contained classroom and serve a population that is similar. And TJ is one school for those that will jump through enough hoops to pass the application process. But the majority of schools are open for all. No qualifiers needed and diversity welcomed. Variety of options serving different populations.

Though you will note that even regular high schools vary in what they offer and some things at some high schools are not available to kids at other high schools, such as dual enrollment classes. Some high schools have a lot of options, while others only offer one or two classes. Not fair right? Why does Mount Vernon have what can amount to enough credits for an Associate's degree with a High School degree and Madison only offer a couple of dual enrollment opportunites? The populations are pretty different, is it racial bias not to offer these classes to Madison students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t a bunch of white men set up TJ in the 80s in part as a way of demonstrating to tech companies and the like that nova was not some hick backwater and that it was open for business? Seems to have worked amazingly well. Along the way, it seems like some whites have grown agitated that they miss out on the bumper sticker and, by extension, navy and orange gear down the road, because of Asian representation. Call me skeptical of white support for big changes now. Gotta be an agenda.

First, you are confusing correlation with causation, and second it is a canard to claim only white people care about TJ’s current status and admissions policies. You might want to take a look at the education agenda of the Fairfax NAACP.

My point is that white folk would be smirkingly piggybacking off the good work of underrepresented minority groups.