Washington Post Slams FCPS for Racist Magnet School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a tangentially relevant question. How different is say, something like college admissions, for your middle of the road TJ kid, from that of your say, top 25% in any FCPS kid? Isn't it better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond? If the goal is to make sure that URM kids have a fair shot at a good education, then wouldn't it be better to focus efforts on ensuring that they get additional support at their schools, instead of trying to somehow funnel them into TJ?

look at the college numbers from TJ, compare that to top 25% of most FCPS school and middle of the road TJ is going to be far superior especially compared to struggling high schools.

Where is this data found?

It's not, but if you've been around the landscape for long enough you learn these things through conversations with officials at the respective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also a false choice to suggest that we need to "focus efforts" on one thing or the other. We should be doing all of the above to ensure that FCPS actually delivers on its promise of a top-notch education for all students.

TJ's unique course offering

Multivariable Calculus Linear Algebra
Differential Equations Complex Variables Probability Theory
Concrete Math
Advanced Math Techniques
FCPS Grading Scale
Electrodynamics Neurobiology
Intro to Organic Chemistry Artificial Intelligence 1 & 2 Parallel Computing 1 & 2 Computer Vision 1 & 2 Mobile/Web Applications

so you see any press to add any of those to the majority of FCPS high schools? If you want equity, either find a way or distribute TJs resources across the county

Do kids in other schools not have the option of taking similar courses at say, a college? I'm only asking because one of my nephews did that in HS (doesn't live in VA). I'm also kind of curious as to what a friend would do with her 6th grader, who will be taking 9th grade math this year, because she's going to run out of math options at some point (she's artsy, has no interest in TJ, and does not consider math to be her strong suit).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also a false choice to suggest that we need to "focus efforts" on one thing or the other. We should be doing all of the above to ensure that FCPS actually delivers on its promise of a top-notch education for all students.

TJ's unique course offering

Multivariable Calculus Linear Algebra
Differential Equations Complex Variables Probability Theory
Concrete Math
Advanced Math Techniques
FCPS Grading Scale
Electrodynamics Neurobiology
Intro to Organic Chemistry Artificial Intelligence 1 & 2 Parallel Computing 1 & 2 Computer Vision 1 & 2 Mobile/Web Applications

so you see any press to add any of those to the majority of FCPS high schools? If you want equity, either find a way or distribute TJs resources across the county

Do kids in other schools not have the option of taking similar courses at say, a college? I'm only asking because one of my nephews did that in HS (doesn't live in VA). I'm also kind of curious as to what a friend would do with her 6th grader, who will be taking 9th grade math this year, because she's going to run out of math options at some point (she's artsy, has no interest in TJ, and does not consider math to be her strong suit).

If you're talking about HS kids taking those additional math courses at a local college in addition to their HS course load, sure they can. But there's a big difference between that and taking those classes with your same-age high school friends and not having to add the burden of traveling to a college campus or doing the additional piece online.

[Anonymous]

as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What culture are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Source?

Would be interesting to see stats on this. I personally know of 7 white females in my son's social circle/group texts that applied. I think 5 or so made it to the second round. None of them was admitted. Two of these girls are clearly more focused and smart than my son and I'm shocked that they were not admitted. One of the moms said that the math teacher had a conversation with her urging her not have her DD apply because of the quite difficult culture for white females.

What exactly does that mean??? Do they get trafficked?

They don't get trafficked, but there are too few of them to develop many social groups of their own and they are segregated out of the social groups that other females belong to. Oddly enough, the social groups for boys are much more diverse. But walk through a TJ hallway during lunch and you will see a lot of single-race and single-sex groups that eat together. There are exceptions, to be sure, but they are just that - exceptions.

That's kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? White girl won't apply because TJ is not cool enough. The few that apply and get in won't go because there's not enough of them at TJ. How do you pre-populate TJ with "enough" white girls, so my daugther applies next year?

IMHO, we are way too pampered in our thinking. Think of the first asian kid that applied to TJ. He's not going to go "there are no asians there at TJ, who will I eat lunch with?". Also, I see no reason why the math teacher is discouraging girls to apply to TJ while not the boys. Is he being sexist more that looking out for them?

Here's the real chicken and egg reality for you guys. A STEM school is high performing ONLY if the kids that attend are Stem-interested and high achievers. If it gets watered down, it's reputation will be gone and the kids who would have been drawn to it will no longer apply. It might take 10 years but will happen. On the other hand, if you change the "rules' to determine merit to something that is credible (still focused on identifying high performing students), what makes you think Asians won't get on that queue in large numbers and ace those tests as well?

[Anonymous]

For those interested in systemic change across all FCPS - here is a great forum.

https://www.localdvm.com/news/virginia/fairfax-naacp-host-online-forum-to-address-systemic-racism-in-fcps/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

Yeah.. Talk to all the Blacks that went to a white majority high school and vice versa. I have a friend in his 50s that hates black people because his hippie mother wanted to raise them appreciating all cultures and raised them in an inner city neighborhood. Him and his brother supposedly got beaten up each day just for being white. I can assure you NOTHING close to any of this crap happens at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Many Corporations love quotas and Id guess the vast majority of colleges would do. No reason not to use them at TJ. SCourt law is murky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Source?

Would be interesting to see stats on this. I personally know of 7 white females in my son's social circle/group texts that applied. I think 5 or so made it to the second round. None of them was admitted. Two of these girls are clearly more focused and smart than my son and I'm shocked that they were not admitted. One of the moms said that the math teacher had a conversation with her urging her not have her DD apply because of the quite difficult culture for white females.

What exactly does that mean??? Do they get trafficked?

They don't get trafficked, but there are too few of them to develop many social groups of their own and they are segregated out of the social groups that other females belong to. Oddly enough, the social groups for boys are much more diverse. But walk through a TJ hallway during lunch and you will see a lot of single-race and single-sex groups that eat together. There are exceptions, to be sure, but they are just that - exceptions.

That's kind of a chicken and egg situation, isn't it? White girl won't apply because TJ is not cool enough. The few that apply and get in won't go because there's not enough of them at TJ. How do you pre-populate TJ with "enough" white girls, so my daugther applies next year?

IMHO, we are way too pampered in our thinking. Think of the first asian kid that applied to TJ. He's not going to go "there are no asians there at TJ, who will I eat lunch with?". Also, I see no reason why the math teacher is discouraging girls to apply to TJ while not the boys. Is he being sexist more that looking out for them?

Here's the real chicken and egg reality for you guys. A STEM school is high performing ONLY if the kids that attend are Stem-interested and high achievers. If it gets watered down, it's reputation will be gone and the kids who would have been drawn to it will no longer apply. It might take 10 years but will happen. On the other hand, if you change the "rules' to determine merit to something that is credible (still focused on identifying high performing students), what makes you think Asians won't get on that queue in large numbers and ace those tests as well?

TJ has always been at least 30% Asian since it opened in the mid-1980s. That was never a concern for them. Additionally, Asian children have much less say in where they do and do not go to school than white kids.

If all you care about is the prestige of TJ, then the status quo is perfectly fine. It is artificially highly ranked because the students take an inordinate number of AP exams and do well on them because the school's admissions guidelines cater to excellent test takers and exam preppers.

If you care about the caliber of education that the students are getting within the building, exposing them to a diverse group of viewpoints and interests and life experiences within the student body is a no-brainer - if you know anything about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as a tj parent it sounds like none of you really know anything about the school or the students there. please remember, these admissions decisions are made by a group of adults. the children who attend the school aren't the ones to blame.

Yes and no. If they are sustaining a culture that harms blacks, Hispanics and white females then they are complicit.

What is your pyramid? One of the ones referenced in this article? Google can find a hundred of these types of articles.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2017/jun/05/students-speak-out-about-hate-their-schools/

Please don't tell me that you think racism from high school kids is unique to one school culture....

Yeah.. Talk to all the Blacks that went to a white majority high school and vice versa. I have a friend in his 50s that hates black people because his hippie mother wanted to raise them appreciating all cultures and raised them in an inner city neighborhood. Him and his brother supposedly got beaten up each day just for being white. I can assure you NOTHING close to any of this crap happens at TJ.

They don't get beaten up, but they do get told that they're worthless and that they're sitting in a seat that should have belonged to one of their friends. I'd almost rather have someone try to beat me up.

[Anonymous]

Didn’t a bunch of white men set up TJ in the 80s in part as a way of demonstrating to tech companies and the like that nova was not some hick backwater and that it was open for business? Seems to have worked amazingly well. Along the way, it seems like some whites have grown agitated that they miss out on the bumper sticker and, by extension, navy and orange gear down the road, because of Asian representation. Call me skeptical of white support for big changes now. Gotta be an agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting on the white females.

I am the PP who felt like the WaPo editorial, and some posts in this thread, really want to simplify the problem here - the demographic imbalance at TJ is unique as a minority is overrepresented and there is a gender imbalance.

The FARMS imbalance at TJ - which also tells much of the admissions story - is not unique - the FARMS imbalance also exists at other FCPS great schools, including Langley, McLean, etc.

The solution is not simple - redistrict all schools to try to achieve FARMS/race equity? Get rid of TJ despite it's national reputation? Provide for quotas at TJ that match overall FCPS demographics? Allow significant numbers of lottery slots at Langley/McLean and their middle school feeders and ES for FARMS or minorities to provide better chance of getting into TJ (which would require redistricting as those schools are generally at capacity so you would have to tell some families in the boundaries that paid lots of money to live in those homes that they no longer get to attend the schools).

Full disclosure - I am a TJ parent, white, from Title I ES and MS. No prep. Kid loves it, I am ambivalent. I support reform at TJ and I support reform across FCPS - Coming from the FARMS background and ending up at TJ, I have had personal experiences at both ends of the spectrum. The imbalances and inequities at one end and the benefits and riches at the other end are real. And unfair. And not isolated to one school.

It seems to me you are promoting a false equivalency between TJ and Langley/McLean.

FCPS isn’t omnipotent. It can’t change the fact that Langley is surrounded by wealthy neighborhoods. They did gerrymander McLean’s boundaries to include one Title I school, but McLean is also mostly higher-income areas. Their ability to change the demographics more is constrained by housing patterns and transportation costs.

On the other hand, FCPS has a great deal of control over who goes to TJ as long as it is a magnet, or whether TJ even remains a magnet. You seem to be implying TJ functions as a vehicle of social mobility for kids whose parents couldn’t afford to live within the Langley or McLean boundaries, but TJ has the lowest percentage of FARMS kids of any high school in the county. Even McLean has about 4-5X as many FARMS kids as TJ. If TJ were not a magnet, most of the types of parents who encourage their kids to apply to TJ would probably find a way to live in the areas that already account for most TJ students, even if it meant buying a townhouse rather than a single-family home or renting an apartment.

I don’t know what the best path forward is for TJ. I do think it’s obvious that the strident assertions that TJ rewards pure merit, by people who pay little attention to the small number of black and Hispanic kids there (and apparently white girls as well), serve to reinforce negative stereotypes of non-Asian students. And I’m not sure it serves the best interests of the Asian majority there, either, to the extent that most will go on to attend colleges and work in environments where greater cultural sensitivity is a big asset. It’s not entirely obvious that the advantages of the school to FCPS as a whole continue to outweigh the disadvantages. At a minimum they need to take a very hard look at the school.