8/27 APS Work Session—Elementary Boundaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who goes to the Reed meetings, I can vouch that there are a lot of neighborhood old people who will lay down in front of option school buses in Westover. I also think the optics of making a new huge school in a walkable area an option school are bad. I'll grab the popcorn.

Since when do optics matter? The SB has to do what is best for the entire county, not just kids and old people within walking distance of Reed. There are plenty of students within walking distance of option schools throughout the county who have to be bused elsewhere to attend school.

Signed,
Someone who lives in another neighborhood and only has one high schooler left in APS (thank God)

[Anonymous]

Optics of old fart nimbys?

[Anonymous]

The Reed site has no bus lane, up to now it’s accommodated a few buses in the street parking lane. In order to accommodate 13 buses worth of option students, they’d have to raze the athletic fields, which are heavily used for baseball and soccer. Is it better for kids across the county to have field space be even more limited than it is now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who goes to the Reed meetings, I can vouch that there are a lot of neighborhood old people who will lay down in front of option school buses in Westover. I also think the optics of making a new huge school in a walkable area an option school are bad. I'll grab the popcorn.

Well Reed hasn’t broken ground. May scrap the whole thing and build a new school somewhere better situated?

You’re clearly new here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which buildings are you thinking of that are currently for sale and don't have existing tenants?

Why do they have to buy the buildings? That would add to the time and capital cost. They would just need to lease full floors and ensure isolated access to the school floors (dedicated elevators). I'm not saying it's easy but it allows flexibility that traditional campuses don't allow. How long was Reed coming? Alternatively, why not comingle say a school and a library on different floors?

There are also plenty of examples of developers willing t[b]o give a building or land in order to get a right of way ect [/b]and they are always turned down. If there was a will there would be a way and building conversation whether it be office to modular units or schools are not as expensive as we think if we don't shoot for the stars over design issues like we tend to do. I think the real problem is parents unwilling to see their kids in an office building.

Such as?

DP - there were two during the S outh Arlington Working Group period: Dominion Arms across from TJ where Fleet was built, and Vornado in Pentagon City.

Uh, no. They weren’t proposing giving away office or apartment buildings. They were proposing giving vacant land for schools, in exchange for bonus density. APS would be on the hook to construct buildings on that land. The county attorney says that’s not allowed, but they can give donations to the AH fund or build units of AH within luxury properties to get the additional density. Vornado no longer exists, and JBG Smith isn’t going to give away any land in National Landing for either schools OR affordable housing.

The county attorney keeps saying it’s not allowed, but as far as I know has refused to provide a written opinion to that effect, and I believe other nearby jurisdictions have done this. But either way, that’s not within the SB’s control because it’s a county decision rather than an APS decision.

Yes, just as the PP indicated. Land in exchange for something. Nobody said they were offering to build a school for us. And the County attorney has a tendency to say anything that's new/different from what we've done before is not allowed It's a bunch of crap. The County can do land deals whenever they want - VHC, for example. Even though Vornado's current status is completely irrelevant to the point that offers have been made, of course JBG Smith certainly isn't going to do it now that Amazon is coming. Perfect example of "I told you so" when people told APS and AC take it when it's offered, these opportunities aren't going to come around again.

To the PP stating it's an APS decision, not a County decision: it's both. APS needs to clearly tell CB we need such and such and then the CB is more likely to pursue options. But when APS is always quick to say "we're not interested," the County has no incentive to pursue farther. And the CB could start telling APS they need to consider offers and opportunities more seriously and think beyond "the way we've always done it" or "it's too complicated" or "it doesn't fit our timeline." Really? Like APS has done so well accommodating growth according to the timeline of need?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need the county to cough up land. Let APS build an elementary school next to the Central Library. Take the 11 acres up at Jamestown and add some kind of seats. We are beyond the point to say “oh they don’t need middle school seats here or there.” Put a middle school at Jamestown. Take advantage of Williamsburg being so close to Yorktown. Put Grades 8 and 9 there. We need more classrooms. At all levels.

“I’m going to toss out there whatever pops into my head without any consideration of feasibility, effectiveness or costs!”

What part isn’t feasible? What would be more costly than the traditional options we no longer have? And on what planet is any solution not going to cost a lot of money?

A primary reason we have so much difficulty with boundaries and efficiently using the capacity of our existing facilities is because our current facilities are poorly located at the edges of the County boundaries. Just slapping things here, there, and wherever is not always helpful. There does need to be some level of thought. Are there things that land by Jamestown can be used for? Probably - but another middle school by Hamm and Williamsburg doesn't exactly make a strong case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need the county to cough up land. Let APS build an elementary school next to the Central Library. Take the 11 acres up at Jamestown and add some kind of seats. We are beyond the point to say “oh they don’t need middle school seats here or there.” Put a middle school at Jamestown. Take advantage of Williamsburg being so close to Yorktown. Put Grades 8 and 9 there. We need more classrooms. At all levels.

“I’m going to toss out there whatever pops into my head without any consideration of feasibility, effectiveness or costs!”

What part isn’t feasible? What would be more costly than the traditional options we no longer have? And on what planet is any solution not going to cost a lot of money?

Jamestown sits right in the middle of the parcel. There’s no way to add a middle school to the site without eliminating the elementary school, and then you’d need massive renovations/additions to convert it into a proper middle school, which they would then struggle to fill without crazy boundaries and skyrocketing transportation costs.

I swear, there are an awful lot of people on this board who seemingly have zero concept of a budget.

I’m sorry your kids go to Jamestown. But it is sitting on 11 acres. APS needs to make better use of that land. Or what parcel of land in the middle of the county do you propose they build another school on? We need more than whatever they will put at the career center.

So come on, what’s your great idea?

NP - I say build a bunch of affordable housing next to Jamestown and expand Jamestown to preK -8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who goes to the Reed meetings, I can vouch that there are a lot of neighborhood old people who will lay down in front of option school buses in Westover. I also think the optics of making a new huge school in a walkable area an option school are bad. I'll grab the popcorn.

Why are people scared?

OH, the traffic!! Why should MY child have to go to a school slightly farther away when there's a perfectly brand new wonderful building we can walk to right near our house?
They aren't scared - they're self-centered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who goes to the Reed meetings, I can vouch that there are a lot of neighborhood old people who will lay down in front of option school buses in Westover. I also think the optics of making a new huge school in a walkable area an option school are bad. I'll grab the popcorn.

Well, the joke's on them then, wait til they see all the cars that drive to a "walkable" neighborhood school on a rainy or cold day.

But seriously, that neighborhood blocked a school from being sited at the Westover parcel years ago, and instead we got the shortsighted plan to build Discovery. They shouldn't get to dictate what happens now and they shouldn't get special promises or treatment.

+1000

[Anonymous]

The reality is- and I say this as a Westover resident- that we cannot have a brand new walkable school at Reed and keep Tuckahoe and Nottingham as neighborhood schools. The neighborhood is largely in denial of this fact.
If a walkable boundary is drawn around Reed- prioritizing the walk zone, then Tuckahoe is left empty- and will have to go option. The only way to fill Tuckahoe if all of the South of Lee Highway East of Sycamore current Tuckahoe boundary goes to Reed- is to take the Nottingham boundary that currently stretches back along Williamsburg. Then Nottingham is empty.
The community is going to have to decide- do you want Reed, Tuckahoe, or Nottingham as an option school?
If your answer is none of the above- then recognize that none of the school boundaries will look at all neighborhoody- and you will need long narrow boundaries for each school dipping further east b/c where they need this school is in the Rosslyn corridor.

[Anonymous]

Clearly Reed should be option. The reason it won’t is politics. Whatever. My kids are in middle & school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Reed site has no bus lane, up to now it’s accommodated a few buses in the street parking lane. In order to accommodate 13 buses worth of option students, they’d have to raze the athletic fields, which are heavily used for baseball and soccer. Is it better for kids across the county to have field space be even more limited than it is now?

Too bad, so sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reality is- and I say this as a Westover resident- that we cannot have a brand new walkable school at Reed and keep Tuckahoe and Nottingham as neighborhood schools. The neighborhood is largely in denial of this fact.
If a walkable boundary is drawn around Reed- prioritizing the walk zone, then Tuckahoe is left empty- and will have to go option. The only way to fill Tuckahoe if all of the South of Lee Highway East of Sycamore current Tuckahoe boundary goes to Reed- is to take the Nottingham boundary that currently stretches back along Williamsburg. Then Nottingham is empty.
The community is going to have to decide- do you want Reed, Tuckahoe, or Nottingham as an option school?
If your answer is none of the above- then recognize that none of the school boundaries will look at all neighborhoody- and you will need long narrow boundaries for each school dipping further east b/c where they need this school is in the Rosslyn corridor.

Won’t the post-immersion Key be a neighborhood school for the Rosslyn corridor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is- and I say this as a Westover resident- that we cannot have a brand new walkable school at Reed and keep Tuckahoe and Nottingham as neighborhood schools. The neighborhood is largely in denial of this fact.
If a walkable boundary is drawn around Reed- prioritizing the walk zone, then Tuckahoe is left empty- and will have to go option. The only way to fill Tuckahoe if all of the South of Lee Highway East of Sycamore current Tuckahoe boundary goes to Reed- is to take the Nottingham boundary that currently stretches back along Williamsburg. Then Nottingham is empty.
The community is going to have to decide- do you want Reed, Tuckahoe, or Nottingham as an option school?
If your answer is none of the above- then recognize that none of the school boundaries will look at all neighborhoody- and you will need long narrow boundaries for each school dipping further east b/c where they need this school is in the Rosslyn corridor.

Won’t the post-immersion Key be a neighborhood school for the Rosslyn corridor?

Only if immersion actually moves, which requires a destination, which brings us back to the post above. I think immersion will go to ATS and ATS will go to one of the above. Best move is Reed and make them expand the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Reed site has no bus lane, up to now it’s accommodated a few buses in the street parking lane. In order to accommodate 13 buses worth of option students, they’d have to raze the athletic fields, which are heavily used for baseball and soccer. Is it better for kids across the county to have field space be even more limited than it is now?

Too bad, so sad.

I don’t see why they need to raze the fields. ASFD is mostly bused and it’s bus lane holds 3 buses and it’s fine.