8/27 APS Work Session—Elementary Boundaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: They need all those seats at the CC (it’s 1,400 seats BTW).

600 at Arlington Tech
800 new seats (which I guess are going to be CTE seats?)

But the site also has the existing CTE students who come in waves during the day, I think around 250 at a time. At the Arlington Community High Students. Plus a few other special programs on site. So total HS students on site at any given time is close to 2000.

If the 800 seats are dedicated to expanding the CTE program/offerings, it won’t be 800 on top of the existing 250 CTE, but instead of, so no more than 1,400 HS students on the site at any given time. That’s how I’m interpreting it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

[Anonymous]

Why should their be any school boundaries at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

And middle school seats, I’m not sure why you ignored that.

[Anonymous]

Middle school seats too. But easier to solve with additions on available land. Not so much with elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

What is really concerning in the link just posted above is the reference to "Future phases of expansion to allow as many different options as possible for phasing, instructional programs and outdoor athletic facilities, including possible neighborhood High School seats
(as and when needed in the future)"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

What is really concerning in the link just posted above is the reference to "Future phases of expansion to allow as many different options as possible for phasing, instructional programs and outdoor athletic facilities, including possible neighborhood High School seats
(as and when needed in the future)"

Just another APS get-by-one-piece-at-a-time crap of a non-plan. As much as this phased band-aid approach costs, they could just build a blasted 4th high school at Kenmore now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

What is really concerning in the link just posted above is the reference to "Future phases of expansion to allow as many different options as possible for phasing, instructional programs and outdoor athletic facilities, including possible neighborhood High School seats
(as and when needed in the future)"

Just another APS get-by-one-piece-at-a-time crap of a non-plan. As much as this phased band-aid approach costs, they could just build a blasted 4th high school at Kenmore now.

No, they couldn’t, because they don’t have the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

What is really concerning in the link just posted above is the reference to "Future phases of expansion to allow as many different options as possible for phasing, instructional programs and outdoor athletic facilities, including possible neighborhood High School seats
(as and when needed in the future)"

Just another APS get-by-one-piece-at-a-time crap of a non-plan. As much as this phased band-aid approach costs, they could just build a blasted 4th high school at Kenmore now.

No, they couldn’t, because they don’t have the money.

Well, they have $200 million, so that's nothing to sneeze at. Median US high schools cost $235.29 per sq foot. Wakefield is 380,000 square feet. Even assuming it costs $400 a sq foot to build in Arlington, it should cost $152 million to build another Wakefield. You could take $20 million or so and add the third floor to the Career Center that the current structure will accommodate to give Arlington Tech more space, and then maybe another $20 million renovating that building and maybe adding a real gym. That's a lot more seats for a much better price. But APS won't even price that out or consider it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I agree with that read. They are not adding all the seats they initially planned at Career Center. And they are not adding amenities. Keeping it a program with fewer amenities. Makes sense. Overall this document suggests APS is in a better position than we thought. But need to get cracking now on elementary seats!!

That's not how I read it at all. Look at this: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190917_ACC-BLPC-PFRC-Leave-Behind.pdf

800 ADDITIONAL seats PLUS expand AT to 600 ASAP.

They are planning on amenities including one field, performing arts space, and a full size gym and cafeteria.

It's basically a down payment on a 4th HS. That's how I read it. But they can't flip the switch on that until they can boot Montessori off the site. Oh and plan for a pool now.

What is really concerning in the link just posted above is the reference to "Future phases of expansion to allow as many different options as possible for phasing, instructional programs and outdoor athletic facilities, including possible neighborhood High School seats
(as and when needed in the future)"

Just another APS get-by-one-piece-at-a-time crap of a non-plan. As much as this phased band-aid approach costs, they could just build a blasted 4th high school at Kenmore now.

But here’s their problem: they aren’t ever going to be able to build a stadium, a baseball diamond, and maybe not the pool either. Not ever, not even if Montessori is moved. That means a LOT of kids would be zoned to a HS where most of their sports are “away.” They’d have to have a deal with another school and/or with Long Bridge for games and practices. Also, let’s assume Arl Tech is popular and fills to 600 kids, maybe even has a wait list. And that the CTE classes remain popular, same thing. To make the CC site a neighborhood school, you have to either end those programs or relocate them. Do you really think we’ll magically find land and money to rebuild those somewhere else? I don’t. So while I do think their super secret stupid plan is to have us build this with “flexibility” in mind so that they can pull the switcheroo, I don’t think they’ll be successful because the Arl Tech and CTE lobby will be too strong at that point, and the surrounding neighborhoods, rightly so, don’t want to be zoned to the one HS where kids have to be bused away for all their sports. I think it’s a really crappy way to act to the neighborhoods who already had the whole Streetcar switch pulled, wherein they agreed to a whole lot of increased density and affordable housing set-asides, to then have the transit project that was supposed to be the lynchpin cancelled. But they didn’t cancel the density or AH. And now they’re adding 1400 students plus staff and maybe no underground parking. That would make sense IF THE STREETCAR HADN’T BEEN CANCELLED.

The giant Kenmore site is going to be wasted, especially if they build another K-8 school on that parcel. The neighborhood is going to be just as angry about another school, and we don’t use the only site we have that’s large enough for a real HS with full amenities to do it. Horrible planing.

[Anonymous]

6:11, I agree with most of that except the idea that the streetcar would have made any difference at all with respect to the density of students at that site. Running a streetcar up and down Columbia Pike doesn't help most people who would in theory be zoned to or work at that school get to that school.

Cancelling the streetcar did make Fairfax give us the finger with regard to expanding ingress/egress from the Kenmore site into FFX county, which I understand is a large part of what killed that site as an option for the 4th HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:6:11, I agree with most of that except the idea that the streetcar would have made any difference at all with respect to the density of students at that site. Running a streetcar up and down Columbia Pike doesn't help most people who would in theory be zoned to or work at that school get to that school.

Cancelling the streetcar did make Fairfax give us the finger with regard to expanding ingress/egress from the Kenmore site into FFX county, which I understand is a large part of what killed that site as an option for the 4th HS.

Interesting, I hadn’t heard that but it makes sense. So, I think we should hold off on putting anything else at the Kenmore site, because it could still be on the table in the future, maybe once we’re forgiven. Using that land now, for schools that could fit elsewhere, precludes that site from ever being fully utilized. They should not continue to make the same mistakes, time and time again. Plan for the FUTURE, not the now.

Anyway, the streetcar would be useful for kids all along the Pike to get to/from the site. I know someone whose child transferred to Arl Tech and has a one hour commute, by school bus, from within the same zip code at the west end of the Pike (public bus has no better options). The kid could walk there in that amount of time. Better transportation would support the option school that currently exists at the site and likely will for some time, as well as the CTE programs. And, better public infrastructure would allow teachers to commute more easily without cars, and parents to attend events without cars, whether the school is option or neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:11, I agree with most of that except the idea that the streetcar would have made any difference at all with respect to the density of students at that site. Running a streetcar up and down Columbia Pike doesn't help most people who would in theory be zoned to or work at that school get to that school.

Cancelling the streetcar did make Fairfax give us the finger with regard to expanding ingress/egress from the Kenmore site into FFX county, which I understand is a large part of what killed that site as an option for the 4th HS.

Interesting, I hadn’t heard that but it makes sense. So, I think we should hold off on putting anything else at the Kenmore site, because it could still be on the table in the future, maybe once we’re forgiven. Using that land now, for schools that could fit elsewhere, precludes that site from ever being fully utilized. They should not continue to make the same mistakes, time and time again. Plan for the FUTURE, not the now.

Anyway, the streetcar would be useful for kids all along the Pike to get to/from the site. I know someone whose child transferred to Arl Tech and has a one hour commute, by school bus, from within the same zip code at the west end of the Pike (public bus has no better options). The kid could walk there in that amount of time. Better transportation would support the option school that currently exists at the site and likely will for some time, as well as the CTE programs. And, better public infrastructure would allow teachers to commute more easily without cars, and parents to attend events without cars, whether the school is option or neighborhood.

Pretty sure that at the meeting where this Kenmore option was discussed (2017? 2018?) they said they couldn't pursue it right now because it would take too much time to work with VDOT to get the road stuff taken care of. Thought it was a state, not county issue. My question at the time was, if this takes so long, shouldn't we be starting that process now so we'll be ready when we need to act? There's no way we leave that huge parcel of land untouched for the next 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6:11, I agree with most of that except the idea that the streetcar would have made any difference at all with respect to the density of students at that site. Running a streetcar up and down Columbia Pike doesn't help most people who would in theory be zoned to or work at that school get to that school.

Cancelling the streetcar did make Fairfax give us the finger with regard to expanding ingress/egress from the Kenmore site into FFX county, which I understand is a large part of what killed that site as an option for the 4th HS.

Interesting, I hadn’t heard that but it makes sense. So, I think we should hold off on putting anything else at the Kenmore site, because it could still be on the table in the future, maybe once we’re forgiven. Using that land now, for schools that could fit elsewhere, precludes that site from ever being fully utilized. They should not continue to make the same mistakes, time and time again. Plan for the FUTURE, not the now.

Anyway, the streetcar would be useful for kids all along the Pike to get to/from the site. I know someone whose child transferred to Arl Tech and has a one hour commute, by school bus, from within the same zip code at the west end of the Pike (public bus has no better options). The kid could walk there in that amount of time. Better transportation would support the option school that currently exists at the site and likely will for some time, as well as the CTE programs. And, better public infrastructure would allow teachers to commute more easily without cars, and parents to attend events without cars, whether the school is option or neighborhood.

How would the street car have made any difference in this situation? It wasn't going to have a dedicated lane so it would have been sitting in traffic back-ups just like a bus. If they want to make a real difference in transportation along the Pike it would have to be some kind of elevated light rail.