Anybody listening to NPR?

[Anonymous]

What the busing crowd doesn't get is that forced busing leads to MORE segregation -- families of means, mostly white and Asian, just move to the suburbs or to private.

That has happened in every single instance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you feel that busing, as a social/educational policy, is detrimental to students at more affluent schools?

You know, my kid has a long bus ride to her zoned school. We don't live in the neighborhood. But those are the rules. I wonder what the "schools should be for kids in the neighborhood" PP thinks about that. Maybe the PP thinks my kid shouldn't be at that school.

There can certainly be exceptions - and also some of the zoning could have issues too. I am not saying that this can be easily corrected because many people purchased their homes based on knowing the zoning.
But in general the current practice is "students go to neighboring" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the busing crowd doesn't get is that forced busing leads to MORE segregation -- families of means, mostly white and Asian, just move to the suburbs or to private.

That has happened in every single instance.

Actually it doesn't. Schools were less segregated during desegregation in the 1970s. When the desegregation efforts stopped, schools became more segregated again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you feel that busing, as a social/educational policy, is detrimental to students at more affluent schools?

You know, my kid has a long bus ride to her zoned school. We don't live in the neighborhood. But those are the rules. I wonder what the "schools should be for kids in the neighborhood" PP thinks about that. Maybe the PP thinks my kid shouldn't be at that school.

There can certainly be exceptions - and also some of the zoning could have issues too. I am not saying that this can be easily corrected because many people purchased their homes based on knowing the zoning.
But in general the current practice is "students go to neighboring" schools.

The Board of Education really should not make school policy based on the reasons why some of the people who own their homes may or may not have bought those homes. That's a neighborhood issue, not a school issue - right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

Please elaborate - other than merit based schools/programs.
Exceptions always exist - as long as there are good reasons and as long as they are limited to "exceptions" (that is, statistically insignificant, which is clearly not something useful to achieve "diversity").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

Please elaborate - other than merit based schools/programs.
Exceptions always exist - as long as there are good reasons and as long as they are limited to "exceptions" (that is, statistically insignificant, which is clearly not something useful to achieve "diversity").

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/SenecaValleyHS.pdf

Please learn more about MCPS school boundaries. You can find all of the service area maps here: http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

Please elaborate - other than merit based schools/programs.
Exceptions always exist - as long as there are good reasons and as long as they are limited to "exceptions" (that is, statistically insignificant, which is clearly not something useful to achieve "diversity").

There are many MCPS schools located fairly close to their own boundary lines. The effect is that kids living just across the line are zoned to a different school than the one that may be closest to their house.
There are also MCPS school zones which have components which are not contiguous to each other, such that kids from the further away zones are bussed to their school, sometimes passing other schools along the way.

[Anonymous]

I found this article that talks about the history of neighborhood and school segregation, how existing school boundaries often maintain and even increase segregation in schools, and how gerrymandered boundaries can lead to more integration.

They also address the notion that there will just be white flight if school boundaries are changed, and use terms like "geospatial bias" to refer to how we think of our neighborhoods, and who gets to attend what schools.

Long, but lots of interactive features (you can plug in MoCo and look at segregation in your area) and graphics makes it an easy read.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/8/16822374/school-segregation-gerrymander-map

[Anonymous]

Are they talking about "forced busing" or are they talking about boundary changes? Not exactly the same thing. If they change boundaries - you still will be going to the school you are supposed to and they aren't forcing you to bus elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

Please elaborate - other than merit based schools/programs.
Exceptions always exist - as long as there are good reasons and as long as they are limited to "exceptions" (that is, statistically insignificant, which is clearly not something useful to achieve "diversity").

There are many MCPS schools located fairly close to their own boundary lines. The effect is that kids living just across the line are zoned to a different school than the one that may be closest to their house.
There are also MCPS school zones which have components which are not contiguous to each other, such that kids from the further away zones are bussed to their school, sometimes passing other schools along the way.

Example -- we live in a neighborhood that was once part of QO cluster. Now it is part of NW cluster. We are being considered as part of the boundary changes for Seneca Valley HS. So while none of these schools is all that far from our house - you could argue we don't go to our "neighborhood" HS which would be QO (closest). I don't think this is the only example of this kind of thing....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found this article that talks about the history of neighborhood and school segregation, how existing school boundaries often maintain and even increase segregation in schools, and how gerrymandered boundaries can lead to more integration.

They also address the notion that there will just be white flight if school boundaries are changed, and use terms like "geospatial bias" to refer to how we think of our neighborhoods, and who gets to attend what schools.

Long, but lots of interactive features (you can plug in MoCo and look at segregation in your area) and graphics makes it an easy read.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/8/16822374/school-segregation-gerrymander-map

One more article--this one may also be of interest. Three takeaways (I think #1 will be of most interest to many here):

1. White students’ test scores don’t drop when they go to schools with large numbers of black and Latino students.

2. Diverse classrooms teach some of the most important 21st-century skills, which matter more than test scores.

3. Graduates of socioeconomically diverse schools are more effective in the workplace and global markets.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/white-kids-benefits-diverse-schools/

[Anonymous]

A lot of school districts have tried to solve this problem and failed. That doesn't mean we stop trying, but we have to come up with different solutions, e.g. not busing.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/04/the-legacy-of-a-chicago-suburbs-failed-fight-for-school-desegregation/389153/
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/06/496411024/why-busing-didnt-end-school-segregation

The problem with one jurisdiction doing it unilaterally is that adjacent jurisdictions act as havens for flight. People move. When PG county bussed, people moved out of PG county. If Moco does this, people will go to Howard, Fairfax, Loudoun, Frederick, or private, leading to a hollowing out of MCPS. Every nearby jurisdiction needs to be onboard or else the process will just repeat itself. You just buy yourself the 20-30 years before it happens again. And what's left is a bunch of LAUSDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the busing crowd doesn't get is that forced busing leads to MORE segregation -- families of means, mostly white and Asian, just move to the suburbs or to private.

That has happened in every single instance.

Actually it doesn't. Schools were less segregated during desegregation in the 1970s. When the desegregation efforts stopped, schools became more segregated again.

BS.

San Francisco schools for example have never been more segregated than now, thanks to a city-wide lottery and Dem politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Already stated in the PP. And isn't that obvious? Any other rules that you think would work better than this (other than merit based schools)? Schools with racial quota? Remember, we are talking about rules, that is something that can be followed with very little personal choices from the administrators. Things like "we should make the school diverse" are not rules. They are slogans.

No, it's not obvious. That's why I'm asking.

So do you have any other obvious rules can be used instead? Again, RULES, not something that different school administrators can easily do differently by just following the "spirit".
If not, it becomes obvious that we should just keep using the current rules.

Under the current rules, right here in MCPS, plenty of students already do not go to their "neighborhood schools".

Please elaborate - other than merit based schools/programs.
Exceptions always exist - as long as there are good reasons and as long as they are limited to "exceptions" (that is, statistically insignificant, which is clearly not something useful to achieve "diversity").

The NEC and DCC were specifically designed to move kids out of their neighborhood schools.