WaPo uncovers Liz Warren’s 1986 bar app. Race handwritten as “American Indian”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like Warren and think this is a non-issue, but she's done. You can't give in to Trump in even the tiniest degree. Leave a little opening and he'll stick his knife in. Only Pelosi has gotten it so far. I hope other Democrats learn from her.

Decades of dishonesty and fraud - that is a "non-issue" to you?

Seriously??

Not to mention she is a Limosine-liberal; a salon-communist. A phony is so many respects.

[Anonymous]

One good thing is that people can now self identify in more than one category for race. I honestly think ethnicity cannot be more than one category though. The problem is that most forms treat them as one thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't care. Do you?

Do you think that was okay and honest?

you're kidding, right? You want to talk about "honesty".. um okay.. how about honesty from our POTUS. This app was.. what... 40 years ago? FFS.

First of all, nice whataboutism.
Secondly, are you one of the morons outraged about what Northam - and/or Kavanaugh - had in their yearbooks, 35+ yrs. ago?
-DP

sexual assault is a bigger deal than lying about your enthnicity.

And I'm not white.

Definitely agree - if there was proof or corroborating evidence *of any kind* that sexual assault ever occurred. But there wasn't - not a shred. So this is actually a much bigger deal.

Please don't insult us, yourself and this conversation by making a political statement that is not true at all. ARe you the one who keeps posting that? Please stop. There was a lot of corroborating evidence. Just stop it. There was not incontrovertible proof. Those are the words you are looking for.
https://rewire.news/ablc/2018/10/04/corroborating-evidence-christine-blasey-ford-allegations/

Ah yes, you're the poster who thinks you're "schooling" the rest of us with your lectures on "incontrovertible proof". Just stop. Americans, even those with political axes to grind, know that there simply wasn't enough of *anything* to conclude that Kavanaugh had sexually assaulted anyone. You can claim there was corroborating evidence, but there simply wasn't. Goodbye.

This is what happens when an unfit candidate is pushed through. It will always happen when Kavanaugh is discussed.

"Unfit"? He was roundly admired as one of the most qualified candidates for the SC in years. The only people who see him as "unfit" are those who wanted a liberal on the court and didn't get their way.

He got added to the list because trump needed someone he could control to let him off on the criminal charges!

[Anonymous]

Using this to your advantage is not ok. Nutjob

[Anonymous]

Once in a while I run into people who ask if he speaks the language of his birth country. They somehow think a baby will speak that language through its DNA. So weird.

Off-topic, but this is not limited to Americans. I worked in Japan and had a friend who also worked there and was Japanese--American. The Japanese just could not accept that she could not speak Japanese. It was really kind of funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
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Who careas? It’s not like bar applications are a selective process and they can only admit so many so she got some kind of edge identifying as American Indian. This is truly a situation where it didn’t help or hurt her, it just was. If anything, this substantiates to me that she really did identify as American Indian if she’s using it in contexts where it doesn’t matter.



Oh don't be dense. Elizabeth Warren is obviously a white woman and obviously identifies as such. Even if she heard that she had a great great great grandparent that was Native American everyone in her family is white. There's no way she really saw herself as Native American. What she did is really quite galling. It's the kind of thing that people make jokes about doing, but no one actually has the nerve to do.


+100
This.



+ one million

I would consider that it was 1986 and maybe this was some kind of a "thing", but my son is adopted and could definitely be considered a different race/ethnicity (as in it's physically obvious without a DNA test and he was born in another country). He has always self identified as white because he was raised in the white culture. His DNA would show otherwise to a much greater degree than Warren's did.


And this kind of dragging people through the mud for how they identified decades ago concerns me a bit. Your ds identifies this way now, but he could change his mind in the future. Or he could be criticized by people who claim he was turning his back on his heritage. I have multiracial kids and I see how easily this could happen to them. I think once we police how people self-identify it is a dangerous.

PP here. His heritage is white English speaking American. Cultural heritage is what defines us. Once in a while I run into people who ask if he speaks the language of his birth country. They somehow think a baby will speak that language through its DNA. So weird. I don't think anyone would have criticized Warren for identifying as white or would have said she had turned her back on her Native American culture. Anyone who says those things does not understand how culture affects identity. You don't just "feel Native American" somehow.

I am sure you have researched this because of your adoption, but Korean adoptees who are adults now have conflicting thoughts on your statement. It is not as straightforward and while some interracial adoptees would agree with you, others would not. My kids are not actually adopted - they have a grandparent of another race & culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One good thing is that people can now self identify in more than one category for race. I honestly think ethnicity cannot be more than one category though. The problem is that most forms treat them as one thing.

Why would ethnicity not be more one category? What about people are Jewish from Latin America? They are ethnically Jewish and ethnically Hispanic. Not even having parents of different ethnicities (which is usually how people become multiethnic).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Who careas? It’s not like bar applications are a selective process and they can only admit so many so she got some kind of edge identifying as American Indian. This is truly a situation where it didn’t help or hurt her, it just was. If anything, this substantiates to me that she really did identify as American Indian if she’s using it in contexts where it doesn’t matter.



Oh don't be dense. Elizabeth Warren is obviously a white woman and obviously identifies as such. Even if she heard that she had a great great great grandparent that was Native American everyone in her family is white. There's no way she really saw herself as Native American. What she did is really quite galling. It's the kind of thing that people make jokes about doing, but no one actually has the nerve to do.


+100
This.



+ one million

I would consider that it was 1986 and maybe this was some kind of a "thing", but my son is adopted and could definitely be considered a different race/ethnicity (as in it's physically obvious without a DNA test and he was born in another country). He has always self identified as white because he was raised in the white culture. His DNA would show otherwise to a much greater degree than Warren's did.


And this kind of dragging people through the mud for how they identified decades ago concerns me a bit. Your ds identifies this way now, but he could change his mind in the future. Or he could be criticized by people who claim he was turning his back on his heritage. I have multiracial kids and I see how easily this could happen to them. I think once we police how people self-identify it is a dangerous.


PP here. His heritage is white English speaking American. Cultural heritage is what defines us. Once in a while I run into people who ask if he speaks the language of his birth country. They somehow think a baby will speak that language through its DNA. So weird. I don't think anyone would have criticized Warren for identifying as white or would have said she had turned her back on her Native American culture. Anyone who says those things does not understand how culture affects identity. You don't just "feel Native American" somehow.


I am sure you have researched this because of your adoption, but Korean adoptees who are adults now have conflicting thoughts on your statement. It is not as straightforward and while some interracial adoptees would agree with you, others would not. My kids are not actually adopted - they have a grandparent of another race & culture.

PP again. Yes, then I would agree that your children are not the same, especially if they have contact with these grandparents and they are "not actually adopted". Adoption in our case was a complete split from the birth culture and family. Our son knows no other family or culture except for ours. I am sure that other adoptees feel differently, but it doesn't mean that they have inherited their birth culture. They may learn their birth language at some point or find their birth parents and maybe then they would self identify as another race or ethnicity. But I think this was far from the case for Elizabeth Warren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One good thing is that people can now self identify in more than one category for race. I honestly think ethnicity cannot be more than one category though. The problem is that most forms treat them as one thing.

Why would ethnicity not be more one category? What about people are Jewish from Latin America? They are ethnically Jewish and ethnically Hispanic. Not even having parents of different ethnicities (which is usually how people become multiethnic).

sounds like an excellent combo.

High IQ genes + URM boost for admissions.

[Anonymous]

^ I also understand how a person's appearance can affect how others relate to him/her. For sure! However, I don't think people would automatically relate to Elizabeth Warren as a NA based on her looks. It's hard to see her being like a Korean adoptee who had conflicting thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


One good thing is that people can now self identify in more than one category for race. I honestly think ethnicity cannot be more than one category though. The problem is that most forms treat them as one thing.


Why would ethnicity not be more one category? What about people are Jewish from Latin America? They are ethnically Jewish and ethnically Hispanic. Not even having parents of different ethnicities (which is usually how people become multiethnic).



sounds like an excellent combo.

High IQ genes + URM boost for admissions.

I have not seen Jewish as a check off box on the race/ethnicity categories on forms. Would Catholic and Protestant be ethnicities as well? Or Muslim?

[Anonymous]

In the above example, do you speak Hebrew or Spanish? That would drive which ethnicity you are.

The categories are pretty screwed up on US forms to be honest. That's why they allow more than one check now. But I have not seen "Jewish".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


One good thing is that people can now self identify in more than one category for race. I honestly think ethnicity cannot be more than one category though. The problem is that most forms treat them as one thing.


Why would ethnicity not be more one category? What about people are Jewish from Latin America? They are ethnically Jewish and ethnically Hispanic. Not even having parents of different ethnicities (which is usually how people become multiethnic).



sounds like an excellent combo.

High IQ genes + URM boost for admissions.

I have not seen Jewish as a check off box on the race/ethnicity categories on forms. Would Catholic and Protestant be ethnicities as well? Or Muslim?

you don't. that's the point. if you are a jewish person from south america, you check latino to get the urm boost but your high iq comes from your jewish genetics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Who careas? It’s not like bar applications are a selective process and they can only admit so many so she got some kind of edge identifying as American Indian. This is truly a situation where it didn’t help or hurt her, it just was. If anything, this substantiates to me that she really did identify as American Indian if she’s using it in contexts where it doesn’t matter.



Oh don't be dense. Elizabeth Warren is obviously a white woman and obviously identifies as such. Even if she heard that she had a great great great grandparent that was Native American everyone in her family is white. There's no way she really saw herself as Native American. What she did is really quite galling. It's the kind of thing that people make jokes about doing, but no one actually has the nerve to do.


+100
This.



+ one million

I would consider that it was 1986 and maybe this was some kind of a "thing", but my son is adopted and could definitely be considered a different race/ethnicity (as in it's physically obvious without a DNA test and he was born in another country). He has always self identified as white because he was raised in the white culture. His DNA would show otherwise to a much greater degree than Warren's did.


And this kind of dragging people through the mud for how they identified decades ago concerns me a bit. Your ds identifies this way now, but he could change his mind in the future. Or he could be criticized by people who claim he was turning his back on his heritage. I have multiracial kids and I see how easily this could happen to them. I think once we police how people self-identify it is a dangerous.


PP here. His heritage is white English speaking American. Cultural heritage is what defines us. Once in a while I run into people who ask if he speaks the language of his birth country. They somehow think a baby will speak that language through its DNA. So weird. I don't think anyone would have criticized Warren for identifying as white or would have said she had turned her back on her Native American culture. Anyone who says those things does not understand how culture affects identity. You don't just "feel Native American" somehow.


I am sure you have researched this because of your adoption, but Korean adoptees who are adults now have conflicting thoughts on your statement. It is not as straightforward and while some interracial adoptees would agree with you, others would not. My kids are not actually adopted - they have a grandparent of another race & culture.

PP again. Yes, then I would agree that your children are not the same, especially if they have contact with these grandparents and they are "not actually adopted". Adoption in our case was a complete split from the birth culture and family. Our son knows no other family or culture except for ours. I am sure that other adoptees feel differently, but it doesn't mean that they have inherited their birth culture. They may learn their birth language at some point or find their birth parents and maybe then they would self identify as another race or ethnicity. But I think this was far from the case for Elizabeth Warren.

Your son is interesting then - I don't know any adoptees who don't identify as their race of birth. Their culture is American, definitely, but they can't just call themselves Caucasian just because their parents are. As for my kids - they only have one grandparent who is of another race and culture. My point is that my kids (and your son) can check more than one box if they want to now, and they could check more than one box in the future. They can choose how they identify and it doesn't have to be the same all the way through their lives. Their identity may evolve as they grow up and connect with others of similar heritage.

Policing how other people identify themselves - especially in a culture like the US where race and ethnicity are very complicated - is dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Who careas? It’s not like bar applications are a selective process and they can only admit so many so she got some kind of edge identifying as American Indian. This is truly a situation where it didn’t help or hurt her, it just was. If anything, this substantiates to me that she really did identify as American Indian if she’s using it in contexts where it doesn’t matter.



Oh don't be dense. Elizabeth Warren is obviously a white woman and obviously identifies as such. Even if she heard that she had a great great great grandparent that was Native American everyone in her family is white. There's no way she really saw herself as Native American. What she did is really quite galling. It's the kind of thing that people make jokes about doing, but no one actually has the nerve to do.


+100
This.



+ one million

I would consider that it was 1986 and maybe this was some kind of a "thing", but my son is adopted and could definitely be considered a different race/ethnicity (as in it's physically obvious without a DNA test and he was born in another country). He has always self identified as white because he was raised in the white culture. His DNA would show otherwise to a much greater degree than Warren's did.


And this kind of dragging people through the mud for how they identified decades ago concerns me a bit. Your ds identifies this way now, but he could change his mind in the future. Or he could be criticized by people who claim he was turning his back on his heritage. I have multiracial kids and I see how easily this could happen to them. I think once we police how people self-identify it is a dangerous.


PP here. His heritage is white English speaking American. Cultural heritage is what defines us. Once in a while I run into people who ask if he speaks the language of his birth country. They somehow think a baby will speak that language through its DNA. So weird. I don't think anyone would have criticized Warren for identifying as white or would have said she had turned her back on her Native American culture. Anyone who says those things does not understand how culture affects identity. You don't just "feel Native American" somehow.


I am sure you have researched this because of your adoption, but Korean adoptees who are adults now have conflicting thoughts on your statement. It is not as straightforward and while some interracial adoptees would agree with you, others would not. My kids are not actually adopted - they have a grandparent of another race & culture.



PP again. Yes, then I would agree that your children are not the same, especially if they have contact with these grandparents and they are "not actually adopted". Adoption in our case was a complete split from the birth culture and family. Our son knows no other family or culture except for ours. I am sure that other adoptees feel differently, but it doesn't mean that they have inherited their birth culture. They may learn their birth language at some point or find their birth parents and maybe then they would self identify as another race or ethnicity. But I think this was far from the case for Elizabeth Warren.


Your son is interesting then - I don't know any adoptees who don't identify as their race of birth. Their culture is American, definitely, but they can't just call themselves Caucasian just because their parents are. As for my kids - they only have one grandparent who is of another race and culture. My point is that my kids (and your son) can check more than one box if they want to now, and they could check more than one box in the future. They can choose how they identify and it doesn't have to be the same all the way through their lives. Their identity may evolve as they grow up and connect with others of similar heritage.

Policing how other people identify themselves - especially in a culture like the US where race and ethnicity are very complicated - is dangerous.

I thought you said that nobody should police how people identify themselves ????