WaPo uncovers Liz Warren’s 1986 bar app. Race handwritten as “American Indian”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a liberal, and I didn't care up until that bar application. It's one thing to claim some racial or ethnic heritage, ie mixed ancestry. It's another to put it down as your race. To say that is to employ the "one drop rule" definition of race, which I abhor.

I hear what you are saying, but is it really authentic for you to judge based on the standards of NOW? In 1986, MANY people DID ascribe to the one drop rule. You may not agree with it, and I am sure Warren doesn't now, and I don't now and MANY people don't now.

My dh is mixed race and in 1986 NO ONE was writing in more than one thing. It wasn't a thing to do then. Would you judge his parents NOW for writing just one thing down for their kids back in the 1980s?

DP. I didn't know the one drop rule applied to Indians in the 80s. DH is something like 1/64th Indian (a specific tribe). My MIL might be able to tell me how race worked in the 80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I find most interesting about this is that she was working at UT Austin. 727 East 26th is the law school, the street name has been changed since then but the law school is still there.

Anyway, I don't think there were guidelines at that time about how much native american heritage you had to have documented to claim it for the bar association. She is part native american (and her DNA has shown that).

This is an actual example of cultural appropriation.
And, as far as her being "part Native American" - most Americans have more Native American blood than she has.

[Anonymous]

ou quoted me. Yes, she did apologize. She wishes she had not taken the test. HOWEVER, this application AND her taking the test show that she truly believed that she was native american. NOW the issues of tribal membership are very different and I would say that not just SHE, but many of us have learned about it and our thinking has evolved through this process.

Okay, if she truly believed this, let's see her birth certificate, her marriage licenses, etc. I'm pretty sure they will say "caucasian" or "white."

Interesting that she did this in 1986--and was hired in 1987 at UPenn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find most interesting about this is that she was working at UT Austin. 727 East 26th is the law school, the street name has been changed since then but the law school is still there.

Anyway, I don't think there were guidelines at that time about how much native american heritage you had to have documented to claim it for the bar association. She is part native american (and her DNA has shown that).

This is an actual example of cultural appropriation.
And, as far as her being "part Native American" - most Americans have more Native American blood than she has.

No it's not.

[Anonymous]

Warren claims she is Cherokee.

You have to be a direct descendant from a Cherokee listed in the Dawes Rolls to claim and join. They don’t play games with their membership.

Tribes make their own rules,not the US Gov.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a liberal, and I didn't care up until that bar application. It's one thing to claim some racial or ethnic heritage, ie mixed ancestry. It's another to put it down as your race. To say that is to employ the "one drop rule" definition of race, which I abhor.

I hear what you are saying, but is it really authentic for you to judge based on the standards of NOW? In 1986, MANY people DID ascribe to the one drop rule. You may not agree with it, and I am sure Warren doesn't now, and I don't now and MANY people don't now.

My dh is mixed race and in 1986 NO ONE was writing in more than one thing. It wasn't a thing to do then. Would you judge his parents NOW for writing just one thing down for their kids back in the 1980s?

DP. I didn't know the one drop rule applied to Indians in the 80s. DH is something like 1/64th Indian (a specific tribe). My MIL might be able to tell me how race worked in the 80s.

I am not sure where your MIL lived. I grew up in the South. If you were any part "not white" then you were considered that other race. It is ridiculous and it doesn't make sense. Obviously Warren looked white. My BF in elementary school would always tell me how she was part Navajo. She had a story in her family very similar to Warren. She was not a member of a tribe.

NOW as pp points out it would be considered appropriation if she said it to anyone. At the time it was seen as having a rich history, like how suddenly everyone really identifies with their distant Irish ancestor on St. Patrick's day.

Times have changed dramatically and we all know better now, and we all are doing better.

[Anonymous]

Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

That's for claiming membership in the tribe. Not ancestry or descent. These are very different things. For example, many people discover that they have Jewish ancestry through genetic testing. They might not be able marry in a synagogue, or study to be a rabbi, or be buried in a Jewish cemetery - unless they formally convert. But I don't get to tell them that they can't claim to be of Jewish descent.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure where your MIL lived. I grew up in the South. If you were any part "not white" then you were considered that other race. It is ridiculous and it doesn't make sense. Obviously Warren looked white. My BF in elementary school would always tell me how she was part Navajo. She had a story in her family very similar to Warren. She was not a member of a tribe.

NOW as pp points out it would be considered appropriation if she said it to anyone. At the time it was seen as having a rich history, like how suddenly everyone really identifies with their distant Irish ancestor on St. Patrick's day.

Times have changed dramatically and we all know better now, and we all are doing better.

I, too, grew up in the South. And, I am likely much older than you. That one drop rule did not apply to "Indian" blood. I had plenty of friends who claimed NA ancestry--but they were considered white. Whether they really had NA ancestry or not, I don't know. Some was likely folklore--just like Warren's family. However, many, many Americans do have NA ancestry that do not write it on their legal documents. Why? Because they are mostly white and the NA blood went back generations.

The Cherokees were the most prevalent tribe and they were driven out of the South in Jackson's Trail of Tears.

[Anonymous]

Northam can breathe a sigh of relief now that Warren will be replacing him as the SJW whipping-boy/girl of the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

This is great information about the rules now, thank you.

Question for us: Does someone have to be a full member of a recognized tribe to consider their ethnicity to be Native American or American Indian now?

Now that Latino is an ethnicity question, and you have to choose your race separately - American Indian, Black or African American, Asian or Asian American, Caucasian, what happens to the people who are Latino and NOT Caucasian, Black or African American, or Asian/Asian American? Do they have to be considered a member of a tribe to be considered American Indian or Native American?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

That's for claiming membership in the tribe. Not ancestry or descent. These are very different things. For example, many people discover that they have Jewish ancestry through genetic testing. They might not be able marry in a synagogue, or study to be a rabbi, or be buried in a Jewish cemetery - unless they formally convert. But I don't get to tell them that they can't claim to be of Jewish descent.

Except Warren has claimed to BE Native American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

This is great information about the rules now, thank you.

Question for us: Does someone have to be a full member of a recognized tribe to consider their ethnicity to be Native American or American Indian now?

Now that Latino is an ethnicity question, and you have to choose your race separately - American Indian, Black or African American, Asian or Asian American, Caucasian, what happens to the people who are Latino and NOT Caucasian, Black or African American, or Asian/Asian American? Do they have to be considered a member of a tribe to be considered American Indian or Native American?

Those have ALWAYS been the rules. Always. The Dawes Rolls are the definition of being a member of the Cherokee tribe. The Eastern Band of Cherokee have different rules.

The Dawes Rolls (or Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, or Dawes Commission of Final Rolls) were created by the United States Dawes Commission. The Commission, authorized by United States Congress in 1893, forced the Five Civilized Tribes to agree to a land allotment plan and dissolution of the reservation system.


Tribal citizens were enrolled under several categories:

Citizen by Blood
New Born Citizen by Blood
Minor Citizens by Blood
Citizen by Marriage
Freedmen (persons formerly enslaved by Native Americans and/or adopted by the Cherokee tribe)
New Born Freedmen
Minor Freedmen
Delaware Indians (those adopted by the Cherokee tribe were enrolled as a separate group within the Cherokee)
More than 250,000 people applied for membership, and the Dawes Commission enrolled just over 100,000. An act of Congress on April 26, 1906, closed the rolls on March 5, 1907. An additional 312 persons were enrolled under an act approved August 1, 1914.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

This is great information about the rules now, thank you.

Question for us: Does someone have to be a full member of a recognized tribe to consider their ethnicity to be Native American or American Indian now?

Now that Latino is an ethnicity question, and you have to choose your race separately - American Indian, Black or African American, Asian or Asian American, Caucasian, what happens to the people who are Latino and NOT Caucasian, Black or African American, or Asian/Asian American? Do they have to be considered a member of a tribe to be considered American Indian or Native American?

Those have ALWAYS been the rules. Always. The Dawes Rolls are the definition of being a member of the Cherokee tribe. The Eastern Band of Cherokee have different rules.

The Dawes Rolls (or Final Rolls of Citizens and Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, or Dawes Commission of Final Rolls) were created by the United States Dawes Commission. The Commission, authorized by United States Congress in 1893, forced the Five Civilized Tribes to agree to a land allotment plan and dissolution of the reservation system.


Tribal citizens were enrolled under several categories:

Citizen by Blood
New Born Citizen by Blood
Minor Citizens by Blood
Citizen by Marriage
Freedmen (persons formerly enslaved by Native Americans and/or adopted by the Cherokee tribe)
New Born Freedmen
Minor Freedmen
Delaware Indians (those adopted by the Cherokee tribe were enrolled as a separate group within the Cherokee)
More than 250,000 people applied for membership, and the Dawes Commission enrolled just over 100,000. An act of Congress on April 26, 1906, closed the rolls on March 5, 1907. An additional 312 persons were enrolled under an act approved August 1, 1914.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Rolls

You are not responding to my question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today the Cherokee Nations is more than 355,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled direct ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

https://www.cherokee.org/Services/Tribal-Citizenship

That's for claiming membership in the tribe. Not ancestry or descent. These are very different things. For example, many people discover that they have Jewish ancestry through genetic testing. They might not be able marry in a synagogue, or study to be a rabbi, or be buried in a Jewish cemetery - unless they formally convert. But I don't get to tell them that they can't claim to be of Jewish descent.

Except Warren has claimed to BE Native American.

And she IS Native American.