UMC deep in the negative

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

I'm the PP you are responding to, and I am far from miserable. I make $110K working at a university, and I leave every day at 4:30 p.m. My husband makes 6 figures working for the DC government, and he his home for dinner every night at 6:30. We have a great daycare for our two girls which is costly, but worth every penny. We have more than $250K each in retirement accounts; I'm 38, he's 43. We have at least another $60K in emergency savings/easy-to-access investments, and $20K for each child in college accounts. Our only debt is our 4-bedroom, 3-level home in a nice Maryland suburb. We love our home and our neighbors. Our public schools are good, and we will have the option for private school when it comes time to make that decision. We go on nice-but-not-fancy vacations; we drive nice-but-not-fancy cars. We go out when we want to, we buy clothes and furniture and experiences when we want to--that being said, we prefer a more modest lifestyle.

I sleep well at night, knowing that I'm debt-free and have a nice cushion. As someone who works closely with world-renowned economists, let me tell you; a significant recession is coming in the 2030s.

I've never been in debt, because my focus is on security and freedom, not in keeping up with the Joneses or living some fantasy lifestyle that I've fooled myself into thinking I'm entitled to.

Who helped you buy the house in the nice suburb? Also - is it in PG county where the taxes are lower?
What kind of 6 figures does your DH make? 200k? 300k?
What fantasy life is OPnliving exactly? She has a townhouse with day care and student loan bills with nothing left over. It sounds like your graduate school was instead funded for you which is the difference. It also sounds like you probably had family help too. Did you enjoy writing your arrogant self important ditty? You are insufferable and ridiculouscst the same time which I can understand given that you work in academia (though saying that ‘economists’ predict a recession in the year 2030 is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard and I do wonder if you are smoking away from of your savings in your free time).

No one helped us buy our house. We did this neat thing called SAVING for a down payment. We did this other neat thing called buying where we could afford—Anne Arundel County.

My grad school was not “funded for me”—it was a benefit of me working for a university. I could earn more in another sector, but tuition benefit was compelling. But guess what? If I couldn’t have afforded grad school or gotten a benefit/scholarship, I *wouldn’t have gone to grad school.* See how that works?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

Hear hear.

What I frankly don't get is why student debt exploded under Obama. Did some policies change, or was it just because many folks didn't have jobs and went back to study?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

Hear hear.

What I frankly don't get is why student debt exploded under Obama. Did some policies change, or was it just because many folks didn't have jobs and went back to study?

? I don't think it would've mattered who was POTUS. Do you honestly think Obama directly caused it? Did he cause Trump U, then, and how Trump cheated people out of their money? I don't know why you turned this into politics. But since you started it..

DeVos wants to allow for more unaccredited schools like Trump U to get funding. Obama's DOE went after them for being crooks.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/DeVos-Gives-Controversial/243028

The U.S. Department of Education said Tuesday evening that a controversial accreditor, which had lost its federal recognition in 2016, would again be eligible to serve as a gatekeeper of financial aid. The department restored the recognition of the Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools, which oversees primarily for-profit career colleges. That means that more than 100 colleges still accredited by the council will remain eligible to receive federal student aid, for now. It also means that the council, commonly known as Acics, will not have to face a federal advisory panel in May as part of the process to regain recognition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The move to private practice for either could be a terrible financial decision. If they are working in the right public service, they could be eligible for public service loan forgiveness after making minimal payments for 10 years. Then move to private practice.

None wants a 10 year public practice attorney in biglaw. And what if something happens within those 10 years, what if you get sick or need to leave your job and the forgiveness goes away (maybe for political reasons because many people think it’s a stupid program).

The posters need to suck it up and get the highest paying jobs possible. They are at this point screwing up their kids because they will have high income and zero college savings because they will be still paying their own student loans in 18 years.

[Anonymous]

Live frugally till you can pay off the loans. If you need to move in with mom-dad, do that.

I am so sorry. It is hard to be under that much student debt. Poor you and your poor kids.

[Anonymous]

What happens if they just don't pay it? They already have the loan for their home -- would it just tank their credit forever and ever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

I'm the PP you are responding to, and I am far from miserable. I make $110K working at a university, and I leave every day at 4:30 p.m. My husband makes 6 figures working for the DC government, and he his home for dinner every night at 6:30. We have a great daycare for our two girls which is costly, but worth every penny. We have more than $250K each in retirement accounts; I'm 38, he's 43. We have at least another $60K in emergency savings/easy-to-access investments, and $20K for each child in college accounts. Our only debt is our 4-bedroom, 3-level home in a nice Maryland suburb. We love our home and our neighbors. Our public schools are good, and we will have the option for private school when it comes time to make that decision. We go on nice-but-not-fancy vacations; we drive nice-but-not-fancy cars. We go out when we want to, we buy clothes and furniture and experiences when we want to--that being said, we prefer a more modest lifestyle.

I sleep well at night, knowing that I'm debt-free and have a nice cushion. As someone who works closely with world-renowned economists, let me tell you; a significant recession is coming in the 2030s.

I've never been in debt, because my focus is on security and freedom, not in keeping up with the Joneses or living some fantasy lifestyle that I've fooled myself into thinking I'm entitled to.

Who helped you buy the house in the nice suburb? Also - is it in PG county where the taxes are lower?
What kind of 6 figures does your DH make? 200k? 300k?
What fantasy life is OPnliving exactly? She has a townhouse with day care and student loan bills with nothing left over. It sounds like your graduate school was instead funded for you which is the difference. It also sounds like you probably had family help too. Did you enjoy writing your arrogant self important ditty? You are insufferable and ridiculouscst the same time which I can understand given that you work in academia (though saying that ‘economists’ predict a recession in the year 2030 is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard and I do wonder if you are smoking away from of your savings in your free time).

No one helped us buy our house. We did this neat thing called SAVING for a down payment. We did this other neat thing called buying where we could afford—Anne Arundel County.

My grad school was not “funded for me”—it was a benefit of me working for a university. I could earn more in another sector, but tuition benefit was compelling. But guess what? If I couldn’t have afforded grad school or gotten a benefit/scholarship, I *wouldn’t have gone to grad school.* See how that works?

PP is absolutely right. You are miserable. Your angry and judgmental tone gives it away despite your statements otherwise. Given your statements about the economists and 2030 recession, you’re obviously crazy too. I don’t understand people like you who say they have a wonderful life and love their neighbors blah blah and are so gleefully harsh and judgmental towards people like OP. I say this as someone younger than you but with significantly higher HHI and assets.

OP, by most accounts, is successful. She has a house, kids, and a reasonably well paying job. Her student loans are the main issue and, like others have mentioned, I blame this country’s government and higher education system which give out federal loan money like candy so students can lock themselves into paying for a subpar, overpriced education, and suffer to pay the piper later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

I'm the PP you are responding to, and I am far from miserable. I make $110K working at a university, and I leave every day at 4:30 p.m. My husband makes 6 figures working for the DC government, and he his home for dinner every night at 6:30. We have a great daycare for our two girls which is costly, but worth every penny. We have more than $250K each in retirement accounts; I'm 38, he's 43. We have at least another $60K in emergency savings/easy-to-access investments, and $20K for each child in college accounts. Our only debt is our 4-bedroom, 3-level home in a nice Maryland suburb. We love our home and our neighbors. Our public schools are good, and we will have the option for private school when it comes time to make that decision. We go on nice-but-not-fancy vacations; we drive nice-but-not-fancy cars. We go out when we want to, we buy clothes and furniture and experiences when we want to--that being said, we prefer a more modest lifestyle.

I sleep well at night, knowing that I'm debt-free and have a nice cushion. As someone who works closely with world-renowned economists, let me tell you; a significant recession is coming in the 2030s.

I've never been in debt, because my focus is on security and freedom, not in keeping up with the Joneses or living some fantasy lifestyle that I've fooled myself into thinking I'm entitled to.

LOL ironically this is the reason op has such high student loans. You should be thanking him/her for subsidizing your ridiculously overpaid admin job !!!! You realize that it’s poor fools like him who are taking out loans right now to pay your salary. Then you go home every day at 4:30 and pat yourself on the back for ‘making great decisions’ while all the students are all getting hosed to subsidize your lifestyle? Not cool pp, in fact, you are part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the balance of your retirement account?

Lower six figures, combined.

Then you subtract that from your liabilities and you are in even less debt than you think. You're not doing that badly, OP.

OP is negative $400k with real estate included. This is a shitshow and OP is right to be concerned about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What happens if they just don't pay it? They already have the loan for their home -- would it just tank their credit forever and ever?

The department of education will garnish their wages and their social security checks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Live frugally till you can pay off the loans. If you need to move in with mom-dad, do that.

I am so sorry. It is hard to be under that much student debt. Poor you and your poor kids.

This is pretty much where you're at. You either downsize your lifestyle and aggressively pay down those loans or you continue to tread water. It's a hard spot to be in no question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

I'm the PP you are responding to, and I am far from miserable. I make $110K working at a university, and I leave every day at 4:30 p.m. My husband makes 6 figures working for the DC government, and he his home for dinner every night at 6:30. We have a great daycare for our two girls which is costly, but worth every penny. We have more than $250K each in retirement accounts; I'm 38, he's 43. We have at least another $60K in emergency savings/easy-to-access investments, and $20K for each child in college accounts. Our only debt is our 4-bedroom, 3-level home in a nice Maryland suburb. We love our home and our neighbors. Our public schools are good, and we will have the option for private school when it comes time to make that decision. We go on nice-but-not-fancy vacations; we drive nice-but-not-fancy cars. We go out when we want to, we buy clothes and furniture and experiences when we want to--that being said, we prefer a more modest lifestyle.

I sleep well at night, knowing that I'm debt-free and have a nice cushion. As someone who works closely with world-renowned economists, let me tell you; a significant recession is coming in the 2030s.

I've never been in debt, because my focus is on security and freedom, not in keeping up with the Joneses or living some fantasy lifestyle that I've fooled myself into thinking I'm entitled to.

LOL ironically this is the reason op has such high student loans. You should be thanking him/her for subsidizing your ridiculously overpaid admin job !!!! You realize that it’s poor fools like him who are taking out loans right now to pay your salary. Then you go home every day at 4:30 and pat yourself on the back for ‘making great decisions’ while all the students are all getting hosed to subsidize your lifestyle? Not cool pp, in fact, you are part of the problem.

NP. Why so bitter? You honestly sound jealous. You have no idea of the scope or impact of this poster’s work. I also work condensed hours, but then I’m a focused and productive person. You won’t see me on FB or taking long lunches like my coworkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

A million times this. We would not let used car companies behave this way with $5k loans but we let non-profits put people in debt for life. And for all those people who say don’t go to expensive colleges or grad schools, cheap ones are very hard to find, and often cheap for a reason. In-state colleges in Virginia are out of reach for the middle class - are people without rich parents not supposed to go to college? There are no cheap med schools, and the only “cheap” law schools are so low ranked that you will never get a job. My in-state “cheap” law school tuition doubled in the 3 years I was there. It’s much worse now. And I say this having paid my student loans in less than 10 years through a combo of scholarships, lowish tuition to start and high paying jobs. But I’m aware many smart people were not so lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

A million times this. We would not let used car companies behave this way with $5k loans but we let non-profits put people in debt for life. And for all those people who say don’t go to expensive colleges or grad schools, cheap ones are very hard to find, and often cheap for a reason. In-state colleges in Virginia are out of reach for the middle class - are people without rich parents not supposed to go to college? There are no cheap med schools, and the only “cheap” law schools are so low ranked that you will never get a job. My in-state “cheap” law school tuition doubled in the 3 years I was there. It’s much worse now. And I say this having paid my student loans in less than 10 years through a combo of scholarships, lowish tuition to start and high paying jobs. But I’m aware many smart people were not so lucky.

They have $575K in student loans between the two of them. There are cheaper degrees, or better jobs. But there is no argument that justifies a $300K loan that you will never pay off. They'd have been better off not going to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

A million times this. We would not let used car companies behave this way with $5k loans but we let non-profits put people in debt for life. And for all those people who say don’t go to expensive colleges or grad schools, cheap ones are very hard to find, and often cheap for a reason. In-state colleges in Virginia are out of reach for the middle class - are people without rich parents not supposed to go to college? There are no cheap med schools, and the only “cheap” law schools are so low ranked that you will never get a job. My in-state “cheap” law school tuition doubled in the 3 years I was there. It’s much worse now. And I say this having paid my student loans in less than 10 years through a combo of scholarships, lowish tuition to start and high paying jobs. But I’m aware many smart people were not so lucky.

They have $575K in student loans between the two of them. There are cheaper degrees, or better jobs. But there is no argument that justifies a $300K loan that you will never pay off. They'd have been better off not going to college.

+1 there are lots of trade jobs out there that need workers, this is what the lower and middle classes should focus on for now.