UMC deep in the negative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

It becomes comfortable when you can afford to live an UMC lifestyle. You’re not there yet.

+1. You are not UMC; you are pretending to be. Which a lot of people do, I grant you, but when you owe $700,000, you are not UMC, you are poor. You should be living like you're poor until you are debt-free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

It becomes comfortable when you can afford to live an UMC lifestyle. You’re not there yet.

OP (and others) are thinking that making $220K entitles them to live that UMC because that amount is considered UMC income. The thing is, if you make that much money but your debt is super high, you can't live the lifestyle you think you are entitled to. That's just reality. How you can think that you should be able to with that much debt is beyond me. It's like you see all your good qualities but completely ignore your bad qualities and then wonder why you can't find a spouse.

I'm not trying to be mean to you OP. I'm just trying to bring you down to your reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

I am as you describe under 40. Unfortunately I had no opportunity to make decent income until after I took out my student loan debt - the IT industry went into full outsource mode just as I was ready to move up from my entry level position. You are right that there is always another $100k income I need to grasp at. Unfortunately my field is not that profitable in the private sector.

Yes, but you did have a choice to have two kids and a huge mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

It becomes comfortable when you can afford to live an UMC lifestyle. You’re not there yet.

OP (and others) are thinking that making $220K entitles them to live that UMC because that amount is considered UMC income. The thing is, if you make that much money but your debt is super high, you can't live the lifestyle you think you are entitled to. That's just reality. How you can think that you should be able to with that much debt is beyond me. It's like you see all your good qualities but completely ignore your bad qualities and then wonder why you can't find a spouse.

I'm not trying to be mean to you OP. I'm just trying to bring you down to your reality.

I hate to pile on, but this is correct.

OP, you decided to take on three huge expenses simultaneously - student loans, a mortgage, and kids. There's no turning back now, but if you wanted to live an "UMC lifestyle," you should have staggered those obligations. In this way, you are living above your means, in that those payments, on your income, don't permit an UMC lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

I am as you describe under 40. Unfortunately I had no opportunity to make decent income until after I took out my student loan debt - the IT industry went into full outsource mode just as I was ready to move up from my entry level position. You are right that there is always another $100k income I need to grasp at. Unfortunately my field is not that profitable in the private sector.

The IT field did not go full outsource mode. There are plenty of jobs and companies hiring. You either don't have the skill level or qualifications needed or are not trying hard enough.

[Anonymous]

Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

[Anonymous]

You did not need to go to law school and incur massive debt to make 6 figures. Where did you get that idea. It would be one thing if you were making 300k.

Agree w PPs that you should live like you are poor until you aren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

[Anonymous]

It gets more comfortable when you aren't paying student loans or childcare. Unfortunately you can't jump off the treadmill because the loans aren't going anywhere. Those suckers are going to hang over you like a sword until you pay them off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

I am as you describe under 40. Unfortunately I had no opportunity to make decent income until after I took out my student loan debt - the IT industry went into full outsource mode just as I was ready to move up from my entry level position. You are right that there is always another $100k income I need to grasp at. Unfortunately my field is not that profitable in the private sector.

Yes, but you did have a choice to have two kids and a huge mortgage.

+1. OP got ahead of herself taking on a huge mortgage and two kids before paying off the student loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

NP, I think PP is spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

NP, I think PP is spot on.

It's UMC in other parts of the country. In DC it's solidly middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

NP, I think PP is spot on.

+2. Point to what isn't accurate or logical about that statement, other than the fact that you maybe don't like caps for emphasis? -np

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez if $220K is UMC then I must be rich and never got the memo

$220K is solidly UMC if you aren't stupid with money.

You don't DESERVE or are ENTITLED to fancy vacations. If you lease a high-end car, you're a fool. Save up the money for that kitchen remodel first, before you pull the trigger. Smart people at any income level live within their means and don't pretend to be what they're not.

If you don't think $220K is UMC, you don't know how money or the real world work, period.

NP. Rage much?

NP, I think PP is spot on.

+2. Point to what isn't accurate or logical about that statement, other than the fact that you maybe don't like caps for emphasis? -np

NP. Umm, let's try the DC housing market. A family of four with two kids in daycare, setting aside $ for college and aggressively saving for retirement leaves only room for a modest home by DCUM standard.