UMC deep in the negative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I reading many stupid answers and advice on this thread. OP's issues have nothing to do with having children or buying a house. Stop the nonsense.
The truth is that they took over half a million in student loans to end up with miserable low paying jobs. They have to be the stupidest lawyers I have ever seen.
They may have gone to the worst law school in the country. You got ripped off. What were you thinking?
Maybe you read too many posts talking about the rich life of biglaw partners on DCUM? Well, you got punk and now you are half a million in debt with nothing to show for.
This is your one and only problem. You have to find a better job asap.

I don’t understand their insane debt and low paying jobs. I make 200k with a family friendly job and I don’t even have a graduate degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I reading many stupid answers and advice on this thread. OP's issues have nothing to do with having children or buying a house. Stop the nonsense.
The truth is that they took over half a million in student loans to end up with miserable low paying jobs. They have to be the stupidest lawyers I have ever seen.
They may have gone to the worst law school in the country. You got ripped off. What were you thinking?
Maybe you read too many posts talking about the rich life of biglaw partners on DCUM? Well, you got punk and now you are half a million in debt with nothing to show for.
This is your one and only problem. You have to find a better job asap.

I don’t understand their insane debt and low paying jobs. I make 200k with a family friendly job and I don’t even have a graduate degree.

What do you do?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

NP. I wonder the financial status of someone that makes these kinds of statements.

HHI of 1.9 million. It wasn't always this high, I'm sure you bitter Betty would have told me to live in a townhouse in SEDC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP again: I went to one of the fanciest law schools. Top five in the country. Most people graduating went to big firms - I came from what I thought was an UMC background but learned there that I was actually a hayseed; I didn't have parents footing my law school bill and I didn't even know what a big law firm was when I started law school. I tried biglaw for a year and hated it, and have earned a very very modest income ever since. No kids, didn't buy a house until I was in my 40s, because them's the breaks.

Anyway, I remember our career guidance person giving a big talk one time about how if you didn't have someone paying for law school, and weren't there on a scholarship, you probably shouldn't be there. I was't in either of those situations. Here I am, 18 years later, stil paying off my loans - but one day they'll be gone, hopefully before I'm 50.

We make choices. Sometimes dumb choices. Sometimes choices that affect how we live for the rest of our lives.

I also went to a Top-5 law school. You sound very naive or fragile for not sticking it out in biglaw for more than 1 year. You're still paying off your loans 18 years later? Most of my friends from law school paid off their loans within 2-4 years of graduation, as did I, by just grinding away in biglaw. During law school, I didn't know anyone whose parents were footing the bill, nor do I think there were many "scholarships" for law school.

All that grinding seems to have done wonders for your disposition. I went to a top law school as well and many people had rich parents who paid for law school or helped out in other ways (buying an apartment or at least down payment on a house).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

NP. I wonder the financial status of someone that makes these kinds of statements.

HHI of 1.9 million. It wasn't always this high, I'm sure you bitter Betty would have told me to live in a townhouse in SEDC.

Well, that explains it. Of course you can afford to live wherever you want. OP, who makes a little more than 10% of what you make, can not. Do you not understand that?

[Anonymous]

By the way, I’m not the PP you responded to about being angry, in the same boat as OP and following my own advice, but if you read OP’s post, OP is the one that is angry and bitter, probably by trying to keep up with the jones’s

[Anonymous]

You owe half a million in student loans? Did you get 10 PhDs? I mean seriously, half a million? You clearly didn't have any common sense while in college or grad school, or wherever you went. This is exactly what I am telling my kids right now, DD particularly, DS is going to state college, I will not go into 250K myself so she can have some a degree and I will be living under the bridge, and I do not allow her to get such loans herself as she will never be able to support herself fully. Half a million in loans, unless you are earning half a million per year for that degree is simply stupid. You were better off opening a handy man shop.

[Anonymous]

When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

[Anonymous]

1. 220k HHI is not UMC in this area.
2. when you determine your net worth, you don't count the mortgage debt but not consider the market value of the house.
3. you don't sound like too bright when you incurred huge student loan from law schools but can barely make six figures in income.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

NP. I wonder the financial status of someone that makes these kinds of statements.

HHI of 1.9 million. It wasn't always this high, I'm sure you bitter Betty would have told me to live in a townhouse in SEDC.

Child, WHAT DO YOU NOT GET about the fact that, yes, *you* can certainly afford the UMC lifestyle in the greater DC area, but ***OP cannot.*** Your household brings in nearly $2M a year; OP's household brings in $200K a year. Yes, that is different. That is lower, see how that works? So you can afford it, she can't. She's acting like she can, she's acting like she deserves it, she's flummoxed as to why she can't live like someone making 10X what she makes.

What, exactly, are you not getting here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

Ita.

[Anonymous]

Shouldn’t have bought a townhouse - should have bought a small house as they appreciate more long term. Townhouses are stagnant or just go down if you bought it new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When can we crack down on universities that are literally making a killing at the expense of creating an entire these indentured servants? There should be a limit on grad school loans otherwise schools will continue to charge people these ridiculous Monopoly money tuition amounts underwritten by fed loans so guaranteed that they can jack up their administration sizes and salaries. Any school financial aid officer that allowed someone to take out over 100K in loans should lose their job! Banks would not be loaning this money if it could be discharged in bankruptcy. It has become the new debtor's prison, and we taxpayers are underwriting it all. It's disgusting.

OP isnt the only one who got caught up in a very cynical system in our country, and we all need to look carefully at how middle class kids are being Shuffled through the it and preyed upon by these supposed 'non-profits.' As a child of middle class parents who otherwise wouldn't have made it to the ivied it breaks my heart to say this but I think we may need to do away with the federal student loan system entirely if that's what it takes to break these mafia corporations masquerading as universities.

It’s a choice. Most people who incur such debt end of making very high lifetime earnings, thus negating the debt. If you take away the choice you take away freedom. There are state schools to attend that cost less money.

OP knows that at least one of them could work long hours at a law firm and make a lot more money. Though really OP and her DH should have gotten a law firm job right out of school, not sure if they could get in now. If you to do the millennial thing where you both work 9-5 jobs and share child care and household chores that’s great - sounds like a great life together. But you will obviously struggle financially long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for you op. People act like what until you pay off student loans to have kids. Infertility is real. In my office of women lawyers, every single one of them over 35 is having trouble. We are super close so I know they’ve been trying and the troubles they’ve had. I went to a top 25 law school with partial scholarships and then into government and Dh went into non-profit (no loans for him). We are from the south so we started trying for a child at 26. Infertility. Didn’t see that one coming. Luckily, we didn’t wait until mid to late thirties so we had plenty of time to try everything we could before resorting to IVF. Then I went into private practice to try to pay off my loan faster. Worst mistake of my life. I won’t go into all the horrors of my law firm but if I could do it all over again, I would not have gone into private practice. All your problems are not magically solved if you go into private practice that’s for sure. Good luck.

True, but then you have to live with a lot of debt. You have to pick and choose what you can live with. For most of us, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I had my first at 35 and second at 38, so it's not like I don't know about waiting to have kids. And I'm not a lawyer.

And I never said you could have it all. It’s just people willy nilly push waiting to have kids and with their kind of debt it may not be so easy.
Even though the DC area doesn’t believe it, fertility is on a finite timeline! She’s getting hounded for having kids and not waiting which is crazy to me.

Plenty of people have kids in modest apartments, condos and town homes. Do you get it?

People don't go to law school to live in modest apartments. Do you get it.

Np. But in this case, they should!

Then all that sacrifice, had work is all for nothing.

At the end of the day, there has to be some point, no?

You know what? Sure. Live in a prime location now; you deserve it. Lease that fancy car now; you deserve it!

Later...be saddled with debt for life, die destitute, and leave your children with nothing but resentment and the burden of your care. Leave this world in debt and nothing to show for your work. You deserve it.

You sound really angry. Why does someone else enjoying life irritate you so?

Perhaps you were once in the same boat as op and followed your own advice? It would make me miserable too

I'm the PP you are responding to, and I am far from miserable. I make $110K working at a university, and I leave every day at 4:30 p.m. My husband makes 6 figures working for the DC government, and he his home for dinner every night at 6:30. We have a great daycare for our two girls which is costly, but worth every penny. We have more than $250K each in retirement accounts; I'm 38, he's 43. We have at least another $60K in emergency savings/easy-to-access investments, and $20K for each child in college accounts. Our only debt is our 4-bedroom, 3-level home in a nice Maryland suburb. We love our home and our neighbors. Our public schools are good, and we will have the option for private school when it comes time to make that decision. We go on nice-but-not-fancy vacations; we drive nice-but-not-fancy cars. We go out when we want to, we buy clothes and furniture and experiences when we want to--that being said, we prefer a more modest lifestyle.

I sleep well at night, knowing that I'm debt-free and have a nice cushion. As someone who works closely with world-renowned economists, let me tell you; a significant recession is coming in the 2030s.

I've never been in debt, because my focus is on security and freedom, not in keeping up with the Joneses or living some fantasy lifestyle that I've fooled myself into thinking I'm entitled to.

Who helped you buy the house in the nice suburb? Also - is it in PG county where the taxes are lower?
What kind of 6 figures does your DH make? 200k? 300k?
What fantasy life is OPnliving exactly? She has a townhouse with day care and student loan bills with nothing left over. It sounds like your graduate school was instead funded for you which is the difference. It also sounds like you probably had family help too. Did you enjoy writing your arrogant self important ditty? You are insufferable and ridiculouscst the same time which I can understand given that you work in academia (though saying that ‘economists’ predict a recession in the year 2030 is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard and I do wonder if you are smoking away from of your savings in your free time).

[Anonymous]

If I am reading this correctly, OP and her DH went to a 2nd tier law school, each borrowing every penning, costing close to 100K per person.

They graduated, and could find jobs that paid about 100K each.

So, they have 575K in debt, good income (without student law debt), two kids. And a house.

To get out of this involves going long.

The only advice I have involves a time machine, so I am not going to pile on.

Best thing you can do is live modestly, stretch out the load payments, and hope your house appreciates.

220K is UMC with low loan payments....but. you have 700K in loans to pay.

My estimate is your cashflow looks like:

Student Loan: 5,000
Mortgage/Taxes/Etc: 2,000

Gross Pay: 18300
SSI/etc. 1375 (drops this time of year)
Taxes (Fed). 1800
Taxes (state). 1300 (assuming MD; in VA it would be 900)
Net. 13825

after loans, 6825

Day Care: 3000

3825

Health care, etc: 500
3325

Retirement: 1800
1525

So you have 1500 for utilities, transportation, food, fun, emergency.

But, in 30 years you will have no student loan, and a paid off house, and more than 1 mil in the 401k.


20 years ago, I could have written the same post -- minus the student loans.

80K HHI, 250K mortgage, no assets other than the house.

Today, 200K HHI, mortgage down to 150K, assets are house (700K) and 401K (north of 1 mil).

The cool thing, is my mortgage is the same 2K, even though my take-home has grown.

Think long.