Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate

[Anonymous]

I’m guessing the majority of posters have never set foot in a bilingual school. My kid attends Bruce Monroe. All the teachers are no bilingual so no, half the staff isn’t fired. Kids do one full day in Spanish and one full day in English. Every Spanish lead teacher is bilingual. But English lead teachers are not typically bilingual. My kids English day teacher last year did not speak Spanish. So essentially every teacher can and does speak English as needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brent parents will crap themselves if their kids have to go to school with the Potomac gardens kids.

Many of the kids from Potomac Gardens attend charter schools. Hence Tyler being 75% OOB.

Where do you think the 25% IB kids are coming from? It’s the gardens. And you can’t argue that Brent’s parents wouldn’t crap themselves about sending their kids to school with those kids. It’s just a fact.

The 25% is probably closer to half PG/half non-subsidized housing. Where do you think the Spanish Immersion families are coming from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brent parents will crap themselves if their kids have to go to school with the Potomac gardens kids.

Many of the kids from Potomac Gardens attend charter schools. Hence Tyler being 75% OOB.

Where do you think the 25% IB kids are coming from? It’s the gardens. And you can’t argue that Brent’s parents wouldn’t crap themselves about sending their kids to school with those kids. It’s just a fact.

The 25% is probably closer to half PG/half non-subsidized housing. Where do you think the Spanish Immersion families are coming from?

Tyler is only 11% Latinx and only 26% IB. There should be a minimum of 20-25% (half of the immersion seats) to run a viable dual-language program. This program makes no sense to be in this location.

Move it to Ward 4 and 5 where people speak the target language.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

So by this logic, Oyster, Tyler, Houston should not have dual language programs, or should be city-wide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.

There are at least 50 peer reviewed studies that find that learning a second language improves performance in the first. The idea that poor children can't handle a second language is nonsense unsupported by research.

What has proven true all over the city is that putting a dual language program in a gentrified neighborhood tends to keep the middle class IB residents in the school, pushing out everyone else. This is why the city has had to introduce dual language lotteries. African American OOB residents who don't have a child at the school already lose access.

All very true, but leave it to our local populists to prove the earth is flat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

So by this logic, Oyster, Tyler, Houston should not have dual language programs, or should be city-wide.

Yes. Truthfully, I don't know much about the boundaries of Oyster or Houston, but I think in-bound families should have a neighborhood school without the dual-language mandate. Ideally, DCPS would have a small number of city-wide dual language schools available throughout the city in line with demand for those programs. The existing schools seem to have arisen out of involved parents who helped make those programs happen, but I sometimes wonder if the full community is always on board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

So by this logic, Oyster, Tyler, Houston should not have dual language programs, or should be city-wide.

Oyster’s Spanish-dominant lottery is a de facto citywide lottery. Children from Spanish speaking homes come from all over DC, and they are admitted via that lottery—that’s why Oyster is 56% OOB. The English-dominant side is pretty much all IB, and this set-up works very well for Oyster. We don’t need anyone to fix a school that isn’t broken.

[Anonymous]

Yep. Mt. P is a good example. Parents who do not want dual-language program at Bancroft (and there are many) have no other option. Thus the reason Eaton became the OOB destination of choice for MtP families who did not want dual language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

So by this logic, Oyster, Tyler, Houston should not have dual language programs, or should be city-wide.

Oyster’s Spanish-dominant lottery is a de facto citywide lottery. Children from Spanish speaking homes come from all over DC, and they are admitted via that lottery—that’s why Oyster is 56% OOB. The English-dominant side is pretty much all IB, and this set-up works very well for Oyster. We don’t need anyone to fix a school that isn’t broken.

It is NOT a city-wide lottery, because the only English-dominant students who can get in must live IB, in one of the most expensive parts of town. This puts a very coveted resource in the hands of white affluent, and Latino students and tends to shut out many (not all) African Americans.

This is exactly what some of the AA families are Tyler don't want to happen to their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep. Mt. P is a good example. Parents who do not want dual-language program at Bancroft (and there are many) have no other option. Thus the reason Eaton became the OOB destination of choice for MtP families who did not want dual language.

Yes they do - they can go to Raymond where they are guaranteed a seat. They don't like that option, but they have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One challenge with immersion is that it's hard for kids to join in when they move in later grades, and poorer kids in DC tend to move more. What do you do when a 4th grader moves IB for a dual-language school or when the charter they've been in counsels them out mid-year?

I think Tyler should go dual-language and Brent should be monolingual (or vice versa), and students in both boundaries should be able to rank their preferences for each. You'd be guaranteed a seat in one of them and there'd be sibling preference to keep families together. Then there would be lots more dual language slots and everyone would still have a monolingual alternative if they wanted it, and both schools would have more racial and economic diversity.

Hate this idea. YOu don't seem to know that Brent is bursting at the seams. Seen the new trailers on the small playground?

No room at Brent for most IB parent who want PreS3 and PreK4 let alone IB Tyler families who'd reject Spanish!

Then make Brent dual language and Tyler monolingual. It's the same number of IB kids in the combined boundary either way.

And where will you put the OOB Spanish-dominant students? that would have to go at Brent? The Brent families would all have to have IB rights to their neighborhood school. That's why these programs all begin in under=enrolled buildings.

The Tyler and Brent boundaries would have two IB schools: Brent and Tyler. You'd have a right to attend one of those schools, and a right to express a preference as to which one you got, but you could get either of them. If the combined boundary for the two schools can't handle the number of kids then it's time to shift the boundary, sending more kids to the Cluster or Payne.

I don't think DCPS is going to implement a choice-set in just two elementary schools. Try again.

I agree. Each dual-language DCPS that doesn't have a monolingual track should have a choice-set, ideally with a desirable monolingual school. If Tyler goes 100% dual-language, Brent should be Tyler's.

Dual language schools don't make sense as neighborhood schools unless the neighborhood has many native speakers in the second language. It would make more sense to make Tyler dual language city-wide and absorb the Tyler boundaries into the surrounding schools as space permits.

So by this logic, Oyster, Tyler, Houston should not have dual language programs, or should be city-wide.

Oyster’s Spanish-dominant lottery is a de facto citywide lottery. Children from Spanish speaking homes come from all over DC, and they are admitted via that lottery—that’s why Oyster is 56% OOB. The English-dominant side is pretty much all IB, and this set-up works very well for Oyster. We don’t need anyone to fix a school that isn’t broken.

It is NOT a city-wide lottery, because the only English-dominant students who can get in must live IB, in one of the most expensive parts of town. This puts a very coveted resource in the hands of white affluent, and Latino students and tends to shut out many (not all) African Americans.

This is exactly what some of the AA families are Tyler don't want to happen to their school.

If they’re already there, there is no problem. If they’re not, it’s not THEIR school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing the majority of posters have never set foot in a bilingual school. My kid attends Bruce Monroe. All the teachers are no bilingual so no, half the staff isn’t fired. Kids do one full day in Spanish and one full day in English. Every Spanish lead teacher is bilingual. But English lead teachers are not typically bilingual. My kids English day teacher last year did not speak Spanish. So essentially every teacher can and does speak English as needed.

If the staff is previously all-English, then obviously half have to be fired to make way for the bilingual teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brent parents will crap themselves if their kids have to go to school with the Potomac gardens kids.

Many of the kids from Potomac Gardens attend charter schools. Hence Tyler being 75% OOB.

Where do you think the 25% IB kids are coming from? It’s the gardens. And you can’t argue that Brent’s parents wouldn’t crap themselves about sending their kids to school with those kids. It’s just a fact.

The 25% is probably closer to half PG/half non-subsidized housing. Where do you think the Spanish Immersion families are coming from?

I work there. I know where the students are coming from. There is a very large group from the gardens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the retention numbers. The spanish immersion program does not keep kids in the school past 1st grade. So why would an entire school adopt a model that does not hold on to its families.

Also, from my work at Tyler 10 years ago- these are the same parents who want separate lunches, rececess, aftercare than the 'create arts' kids. The wanted a segregated school. It is not a far stretch for Creative Arts program parents to think that pushing out poor black kids is their aim. It has been for the word go

Separate lunches and recesses? Seriously?

The blair magnet famously had separate bells to keep the kids from meeting in the hallways and lunch’s from the local kids for years before the they were forced to mix the kids a little much to the dismay of the OOB parents who wanted the enrichment but not local flavor.