Let’s Talk APS High Schools: 4th one or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big is the VHC site? Could they put fields at Kenmore but the classrooms there?

Or is this Career Center or nothing? I know that nice big plot at Kenmore is untouchable for a high school building but something has to be built there.

There is a middle school and elementary school already at that site.

The elementary school sits on four acres of its own. The middle school sits on well over 30 acres. The Career center site is 12 acres. Yorktown sits on 11+ acres (plus the adjacent Greenbrier Park facilities). TJMS/Community Center and the new elementary school sit on 12 acres (plus the 15 acres of adjacent parkland/facilities for a total of 27 acres).

That's 2000 students on Yorktown's 11 acres; 1750 elementary and middle school students on 12 acres at TJ; up to 4,000 students being considered for the Career Center's 12 acres; and a mere 1000-ish students on 32 plus acres at Kenmore (not counting Carlin Springs students and their four acres).

So, you are suggesting that we can't put a high school or anything else on 36+ acres of land because there is already a middle school and an elementary school (which are separated by about 30 acres)?!?!?

Yes. That is what the SB and CB are saying. Welcome to the conversation. Now move on.

So what is it that they have planned for the site then? Surely they aren't just letting it sit there forever. Maybe it won't be a school, but it will be something. What is that something?

It is something. It’s a middle school
And an elementary school.
Maybe your grandkids will go to high school there.

[Anonymous]

Where is everyone getting that arl tech is under enrolled?
They had more than enough applicants last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its really misguided to assume that just declaring the new Career Center space a second HB, or any other choice program will somehow make people want to go there. Arlington Tech is already under-enrolled. There is an entire thread on this board about why people aren't signing up for Arlington Tech and the most common response is the lack of sports/arts/amenities. Why would an extra 2000 students volunteer to go there when they can't get 300 students to want to go there? Even with a different curriculum option?

And the thing that always gets ignored about HB is that they have facilities and amenities! If you look at HB they have a really strong performing arts focus and have facilities to match that. That new HB school will have field space, an indoor gym, art studio, big theatre, separate black box studio, drama room, orchestra room and a kiln room. The program has 5 dedicated stories for 700 students an enormously expensive brand new building. No wonder the wait list is a million years long. The current CIP plan for the Career Center is throw a new story on a dilapidated building and build 1 room that is both a gym and theater for over twice the number students. No fields, no anything else. No one is going to run to sign up for that no matter how many times they call it a second HB. Cause it won't be a 2nd HB. And just calling it STEM isn't going to trick families into sending their kids there either. Not without state of the art science or tech facilities (robotics rooms, science labs, ect.)

I've even heard talk of making it a performing arts choice school. With no auditorium. Or rehearsal space. Again who is going to sign up for that?

The school board/county are trying to build the cheapest lowest quality school they can get away with and pretending that people will choose to attend it is ridiculous. If they aren't forced to build a quality school, then overcrowding and lack of opportunities will impact every high school student when the neighborhood schools are overloaded and the Career Center is still empty.

But they don't have the money to do anything else, without cutting other needed construction. At least if it's choice, nobody is going to be forced to go to a ill-conceived "program." There are plenty of kids who are not college-bound, or who are maybe not liking to get into a traditional or elite four-year college. This is their program.

Um. No. Their program is Arlington Tech. And there are plenty of seats available!

Seriously. This is so frustrating. Our options are a choice school, crowded into a small area that is shared with 4 schools where students have to go back to their overcrowded home school in order to play sports or be involved in drama or music (and which may not fill all the 2300 needed seats) or a comprehensive high school with adequate amenities (not talking anything crazy here - track, 2 fields, a theater that doesn’t act as a gym, a cafeteria) that wstudents will want to go to and not seem like they are getting less than.

I wouldn’t send my kids to a less than school, even if they weren’t interested in a traditional program. Do those kids deserve a subpar experience?

Arlington Tech isn't filling because people don't understand the program. It doesn't make sense to say this is the program for the non-college bound kids when a major focus of the program is dual-enrollment classes getting the students college credit while in high school. Arlington Tech isn't filling up because even kids who like science and engineering and technology still want extracurricular clubs and sports and school activities. Arlington Tech isn't filling up because a lot of kids who are really interested in the program are forbidden by their ignorant parents to go - or are only allowed to go because their diploma still reads "Washigton-Lee." Arlington Tech isn't filling up because APS isn't investing the resources into getting it filled, and because the current facilities are crap. If nothing else comes of it, at least a renovation and addition at the Career Center will give the students there the facilities they deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big is the VHC site? Could they put fields at Kenmore but the classrooms there?

Or is this Career Center or nothing? I know that nice big plot at Kenmore is untouchable for a high school building but something has to be built there.

There is a middle school and elementary school already at that site.

The elementary school sits on four acres of its own. The middle school sits on well over 30 acres. The Career center site is 12 acres. Yorktown sits on 11+ acres (plus the adjacent Greenbrier Park facilities). TJMS/Community Center and the new elementary school sit on 12 acres (plus the 15 acres of adjacent parkland/facilities for a total of 27 acres).

That's 2000 students on Yorktown's 11 acres; 1750 elementary and middle school students on 12 acres at TJ; up to 4,000 students being considered for the Career Center's 12 acres; and a mere 1000-ish students on 32 plus acres at Kenmore (not counting Carlin Springs students and their four acres).

So, you are suggesting that we can't put a high school or anything else on 36+ acres of land because there is already a middle school and an elementary school (which are separated by about 30 acres)?!?!?

Yes. That is what the SB and CB are saying. Welcome to the conversation. Now move on.

No, that's what you and the rest of your selfish neighbors are saying. Time for YOU to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big is the VHC site? Could they put fields at Kenmore but the classrooms there?

Or is this Career Center or nothing? I know that nice big plot at Kenmore is untouchable for a high school building but something has to be built there.

There is a middle school and elementary school already at that site.

The elementary school sits on four acres of its own. The middle school sits on well over 30 acres. The Career center site is 12 acres. Yorktown sits on 11+ acres (plus the adjacent Greenbrier Park facilities). TJMS/Community Center and the new elementary school sit on 12 acres (plus the 15 acres of adjacent parkland/facilities for a total of 27 acres).

That's 2000 students on Yorktown's 11 acres; 1750 elementary and middle school students on 12 acres at TJ; up to 4,000 students being considered for the Career Center's 12 acres; and a mere 1000-ish students on 32 plus acres at Kenmore (not counting Carlin Springs students and their four acres).

So, you are suggesting that we can't put a high school or anything else on 36+ acres of land because there is already a middle school and an elementary school (which are separated by about 30 acres)?!?!?

Yes. That is what the SB and CB are saying. Welcome to the conversation. Now move on.

No, that's what you and the rest of your selfish neighbors are saying. Time for YOU to move on.

No sweetie, the whole conversation has moved past Kenmore. WHOOSH... you’re a year late. How is volunteering your neighborhood to house a 4th comprehensive high school — WHEN NO ONE ELSE WNATS IT! Selfish?
You really don’t have a handle on this.

[Anonymous]

"Sweetie"? Ick, please grow up. The high school conversation has gone back and forth for much longer than one year. Bringing up Kenmore again is not absurd. We all are witness to the flip-flopping on the Arlington School Board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Sweetie"? Ick, please grow up. The high school conversation has gone back and forth for much longer than one year. Bringing up Kenmore again is not absurd. We all are witness to the flip-flopping on the Arlington School Board.

NP here. I wish you were right, but after that farce of a presentation last year showing why Kenmore couldn't be the site for a 4th comprehensive school, I really don't think the SB wants to fight the fight and get that process going. of course it's totally absurd now that they seem to think they can cram some kind of HS at the Career Center.

Also, those people in the VHC neighborhood who all signed a petition saying no new school. I hope you f-ing enjoy that stupid bus depot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big is the VHC site? Could they put fields at Kenmore but the classrooms there?

Or is this Career Center or nothing? I know that nice big plot at Kenmore is untouchable for a high school building but something has to be built there.

There is a middle school and elementary school already at that site.

She means something else. That's more land than one MS and one ES need. If we can't build anything else on it, we need to sell or swap it for land that we can build more density on.

Uh huh...
and the neighborhood is fighting it

And a land swap... swap what exactly? What land are you looking at that would be a fair trade? Where would the current middle and elementary school go?

It’s the career center. Get used to it.

That doesn't mean the land at Kenmore gets to sit there unused or barely used. APS will need to use that land one way or another and probably sooner rather than later.

How old are your kids?
Mine is a toddler. Ok, sure... Kenmore becomes something else someday, but I wouldn’t count on that even being explored for another 6/7 years. So, it’s really not something to worry about right now.

My kids are in ES, and it is something we need to worry about now. They need a comprehensive plan otherwise neither my kids nor yours will have places to got to school. I don't want to be back at this in five years when they need to move Montessori. Make a public plan NOW. None of this we'll vote and then change course in 6 months and end-run the community.

Well then You definitely need to get on board with the career center being a full fourth.

I really don't. We won't be zoned there, so, not my problem. If they make it a second HB, they will fill the seats, amenities or not.

I live really close to the Career Center. I agree that the whole site should be overhauled, but I'm not sold on the fact that it needs to be a comprehensive high school. I recognize there is a shortage of HS seats, but I also remember that Wakefield was not at capacity. I think a 2nd HB would be great, given the popularity of the program, but will that result in a North HB and a South HB? Or will all kids who apply be evenly distributed? If the Career Center becomes a 4th comprehensive, I don't see how it will have all the same amenities, without the EDC property being used, and even then, I don't think it works unless it's a 6 story plus building -- with a roof top pool? As great as it would be for the kiddos to go to a new school, it only works if its a choice school or we shift the boundaries, to take pressure off W-L, and I think that will result in groups jockeying to go there and stay out of Wakefield, leaving Wakefield full of FARMs. You'd have to make the Career Center a neighborhood school and Wakefield an option school to prevent segregation or something. As much as my neighbors want their own HS, it just doesn't seem reasonable.

Given the size of Arlington, you'd be better off telling HS kids to find their own way to school (via public transit or cycling) and randomly assigning them or putting a grade at each of the presumably 4 locations.

I can only assume you haven't spent any time looking at the projections data. Otherwise I cannot imagine how you could say all of this with a straight face.

NP. What are you smoking? This is the most asinine suggestion I've ever heard. Let's entertain this stupid notion for a minute. Ok. so we put 12th graders at Yorktown. Do you know how long it would take for a HS student in South Arlington to take public transportation to get to Yorktown HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Sweetie"? Ick, please grow up. The high school conversation has gone back and forth for much longer than one year. Bringing up Kenmore again is not absurd. We all are witness to the flip-flopping on the Arlington School Board.

NP here. I wish you were right, but after that farce of a presentation last year showing why Kenmore couldn't be the site for a 4th comprehensive school, I really don't think the SB wants to fight the fight and get that process going. of course it's totally absurd now that they seem to think they can cram some kind of HS at the Career Center.

Also, those people in the VHC neighborhood who all signed a petition saying no new school. I hope you f-ing enjoy that stupid bus depot.

But beyond a comprehensive high school, I think one of the posters above was talking about putting something on the Kenmore property and was getting shot down. I think we should all expect (and demand) that something go there. Another ES, a K-8, something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Sweetie"? Ick, please grow up. The high school conversation has gone back and forth for much longer than one year. Bringing up Kenmore again is not absurd. We all are witness to the flip-flopping on the Arlington School Board.

NP here. I wish you were right, but after that farce of a presentation last year showing why Kenmore couldn't be the site for a 4th comprehensive school, I really don't think the SB wants to fight the fight and get that process going. of course it's totally absurd now that they seem to think they can cram some kind of HS at the Career Center.

Also, those people in the VHC neighborhood who all signed a petition saying no new school. I hope you f-ing enjoy that stupid bus depot.

But beyond a comprehensive high school, I think one of the posters above was talking about putting something on the Kenmore property and was getting shot down. I think we should all expect (and demand) that something go there. Another ES, a K-8, something.

K-8 immersion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Sweetie"? Ick, please grow up. The high school conversation has gone back and forth for much longer than one year. Bringing up Kenmore again is not absurd. We all are witness to the flip-flopping on the Arlington School Board.

NP here. I wish you were right, but after that farce of a presentation last year showing why Kenmore couldn't be the site for a 4th comprehensive school, I really don't think the SB wants to fight the fight and get that process going. of course it's totally absurd now that they seem to think they can cram some kind of HS at the Career Center.

Also, those people in the VHC neighborhood who all signed a petition saying no new school. I hope you f-ing enjoy that stupid bus depot.

But beyond a comprehensive high school, I think one of the posters above was talking about putting something on the Kenmore property and was getting shot down. I think we should all expect (and demand) that something go there. Another ES, a K-8, something.

That's what I'm talking about. Where is the conversation mapping out what additional capacity this site can accommodate. If it's not a HS, what is it? Because I am not okay with that much land sitting there underutilized in perpetuity, especially when part of the conversation about the CC site includes demolishing ES capacity. And I don't find repurposing swing space at the Ed Center to be a wise choice when we have all that space that is not being used elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I think this whole discussion of not having amenities at a CC 4th high school is a waste of time. You all are just getting in a tizzy over nothing.

Of course the SB will get the money to build what is needed and move out Montessori. The boundaries for the school will draw primarily from the wealthiest south arlington neighborhoods and very wealthy north arlington. The SB will do what ever it takes, just like it doles out the money for north arlington elementary schools and HB. The lobbying is already fierce! Some affordable housing will get within the boundary, but most will be too close to Wakefield. All of the wealthy communities east of 395 will get into the new school. Arlington Mill and Glen Carlyn will be rezoned to Wakefield. the new HS will be a rich school so it will be fabulous, guaranteed.

A huge portion of the UMC families will get zoned out of Wakefield, leaving that school with a very high FR/L school. Parents will do everything they can to avoid that school.

Congrats.

[Anonymous]

I will admit I skimmed the last couple of pages of this, but what about, in the long-term, expanding Carlin Springs and moving an expanded PreK-8 Montessori program there? I know there's already been contemplation of expanding elementary Montessori to include grade 6, this seems like a way to better integrate the Montessori program, use more of that parcel without the burden of a third school, and free up some much-needed middle school seats at Gunston.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How big is the VHC site? Could they put fields at Kenmore but the classrooms there?

Or is this Career Center or nothing? I know that nice big plot at Kenmore is untouchable for a high school building but something has to be built there.

Bingo. It is the Career Center site or nothing. Seriously.
Well, not nothing; your kids will go to a 3000-3500 student high school, possibly in shifts between 7am and 11pm, and have some classes online.
Murphy and staff have already floated this insane idea.
APS is not going to build us another high school on a different parcel, on top of the one at the CC, in the next 30+ years, that would be fiscally completely irresponsible.

So we should make this one, the 4th, the best it can be! It’s also the best chance for Arlington Tech to evolve into something desirable.
If they mess up the CC site, and nobody wants to go there, Arlington Tech will fail. Then we will have no seats, money spent and wasted, and taxpayers will leave the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I seem to recall that, before the two years of working groups that were needed to agree to build Fleet at TJ, the original plan for a new South Arlington elementary school was to build a second ES on the Kenmore campus and move Montessori there (I think the SB voted it out and everything). That got nixed by the community and delayed bringing S. Arlington elementary seats online by years. How ironic if now - in order to demolish Henry to make room for HS seats at the CC - that plan was revived and a school built for Montessori at Kenmore. I think it would be a great plan. Something has to go on that campus.

Ha, I remember that, and agree with you, it would be karma at work.