That's it, I don't give a Sh#t about non-educated whites

[Anonymous]

I'm excited not to see "Thanks Obama" posted by my poor, redneck relatives every time something doesn't go their way.

Years ago my uneducated uncle in MI lived the good life. He worked for Ford and made a good salary in a low COL place. But instead of investing that money and using it for useful things, he blew through it. My mom (CPA) always did his taxes and I can remember her telling him that he needed to be saving more. Even though he made a good living, most of his money was gone by the time the next paycheck came. He never thought long-term; that something could happen and he could lose his job. Because America needs cars! There will always be jobs to build cars! He and his family had multiple Ford cars & trucks, rented their house instead of buying one, had two boats, several quads, a little ice fishing shack in the U.P., all the latest gadgets and toys, etc.

Then he lost his job. He had to sell everything just to get rent money. And then after a few months of only being able to find minimum wage jobs, he had to borrow money from my parents. I remember my parents even sending boxes of Christmas presents for his kids a few years because they had no money. He blames all of that on the Dems. No blame lies in the fact that he never tried in school to get good grades to go to college. Or that he never saved a penny from those large paychecks. Or that he blew his money on crap. Or that he didn't take up my mom's offer to pay for community college so he could learn another trade/skill. The blame lies on the Dems and the illegal Mexicans taking all the good jobs. He voted Trump and he's 100% convinced that those manufacturing jobs are coming back to MI and he'll be living the good life again soon.

[Anonymous]

And neither did Hillary; hence the results of the election.

[Anonymous]

I'm liberal and proud of it! I don't agree with the article that its time to sit back and watch uneducated people get what they deserve. If anything, its the time to get 10 times more involved.

Liberalism is about believing that government is there to serve the people - all the people - and solve problems that bring our nation toward equality and prosperity for all. Its about looking beyond your own ass and deciding that quality of life is driven by the quality of life of those around you. Its about not shoving a Big Mac in your mouth and laughing at starving people. Its about standing up for what is right even when its against your own self interest. Its about embracing humanity and trying to aspire to be better.

I think its awful that Trump has used and lied to so many americans that believe he will restore a past that never existed. I also think its awful that so many voters believe that white men are more valuable than others and the way to solve the problems of white men is ignoring or denigrating minorities and women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course you don't care about them.

You hoarded all the country's assets and wealth for yourselves.

This is why Trump won.

AHAHAHA? We did, did we? Dude I 'only' make 120K a year. Guess at the net worth of the man you elected? And his friends. Oh, this is going to be a fun four years. Never did I think the Tea Party would do a 180 and elect a Manhattan billionaire.

To the person who only makes 120K a year -- you live in a bubble if you think this is a small salary. Get out of Wash DC. In the rest of America, that is a very high salary.

Is it? Have you looked at Trump's tax plan? My HHI is $540K. Trump eliminates the AMT and our tax rate will be reduced. I told my husband and he jumped for joy. Thanks TRUMP!!! Oh, for all you middle class suckers, you don't really get a cut. Trump will literally save me thousands of dollars. No, I don't create jobs, but I will enjoy some extra vacations.

I voted for HRC, but now I'll just take my money and let middle america suffer. I don't care.

Amen.
$400K Hilary voter here.
But thank you middle America. We are looking forward to an extra luxury vacation a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I will enjoy my tax cuts under Trump and if none of those people are better off in 4 years. Not my problem.

I remember when Democrats actually cared about poor people. Heck, I remember when Americans cared about other Americans. Actually helped each other. Can't you see that it's even more important now than ever not to be greedy and all about yourself? It is a problem for all of us. Even Hillary said she will still be engaged in America. But maybe she lied?

NP. I don't think it matters anymore. The country is divided. I used to honestly care. I did a lot of volunteering in my day. I gave a lot of money to charities. Heck, I still do. But I don't think it makes much difference as I get older. I just don't think I care anymore. America is truly imploding from within.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm excited not to see "Thanks Obama" posted by my poor, redneck relatives every time something doesn't go their way.

Years ago my uneducated uncle in MI lived the good life. He worked for Ford and made a good salary in a low COL place. But instead of investing that money and using it for useful things, he blew through it. My mom (CPA) always did his taxes and I can remember her telling him that he needed to be saving more. Even though he made a good living, most of his money was gone by the time the next paycheck came. He never thought long-term; that something could happen and he could lose his job. Because America needs cars! There will always be jobs to build cars! He and his family had multiple Ford cars & trucks, rented their house instead of buying one, had two boats, several quads, a little ice fishing shack in the U.P., all the latest gadgets and toys, etc.

Then he lost his job. He had to sell everything just to get rent money. And then after a few months of only being able to find minimum wage jobs, he had to borrow money from my parents. I remember my parents even sending boxes of Christmas presents for his kids a few years because they had no money. He blames all of that on the Dems. No blame lies in the fact that he never tried in school to get good grades to go to college. Or that he never saved a penny from those large paychecks. Or that he blew his money on crap. Or that he didn't take up my mom's offer to pay for community college so he could learn another trade/skill. The blame lies on the Dems and the illegal Mexicans taking all the good jobs. He voted Trump and he's 100% convinced that those manufacturing jobs are coming back to MI and he'll be living the good life again soon.

Sadly I think there are more government jobs than manufacturing jobs in the US. That doesn't seem right. My uncle worked to his 40s at a low-level, blue collar, municipal government job. Retired and never worked again for 40 years. By the time he died, he was millionaire from his pension. The executor was able to use his money to pay for his nursing home costs. He and his wife had lived frugally, traveled the US extensively and nearly full time. In the end a couple years ago, his heirs split the approximately half-million still left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so done about caring about the poor whites in this country. They can have their guns and heroin and bring on their early deaths for all I care.

Why do voters in the red states think Trump is going to solve all of their problems? They already have Republican mayors, governors, state legislatures, congressmen and senators and yet, things are still bad for them. If they really want change, why not enact it on the local level? Why do they think Trump will change anything? I see no explanation for it beyond being brainwashed by Fox News and the Alt Right and not having the brain power to really think about their lot.

Garrison Keillor has said it best:

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids and we Democrats can go for a long brisk walk and smell the roses.

I will enjoy my tax cuts under Trump and if none of those people are better off in 4 years. Not my problem.

Yeah, because working class white people are all about "guns and heroin." Idiot! Maybe you are the one who is uneducated.

NP. Well to be fair, that poster should have included "bibles".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so done about caring about the poor whites in this country. They can have their guns and heroin and bring on their early deaths for all I care.

Why do voters in the red states think Trump is going to solve all of their problems? They already have Republican mayors, governors, state legislatures, congressmen and senators and yet, things are still bad for them. If they really want change, why not enact it on the local level? Why do they think Trump will change anything? I see no explanation for it beyond being brainwashed by Fox News and the Alt Right and not having the brain power to really think about their lot.

Garrison Keillor has said it best:

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids and we Democrats can go for a long brisk walk and smell the roses.

I will enjoy my tax cuts under Trump and if none of those people are better off in 4 years. Not my problem.

Yeah, because working class white people are all about "guns and heroin." Idiot! Maybe you are the one who is uneducated.

NP. Well to be fair, that poster should have included "bibles".

And all-you-can-eat buffets. Don't forget those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so done about caring about the poor whites in this country. They can have their guns and heroin and bring on their early deaths for all I care.

Why do voters in the red states think Trump is going to solve all of their problems? They already have Republican mayors, governors, state legislatures, congressmen and senators and yet, things are still bad for them. If they really want change, why not enact it on the local level? Why do they think Trump will change anything? I see no explanation for it beyond being brainwashed by Fox News and the Alt Right and not having the brain power to really think about their lot.

Garrison Keillor has said it best:

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids and we Democrats can go for a long brisk walk and smell the roses.

I will enjoy my tax cuts under Trump and if none of those people are better off in 4 years. Not my problem.

Yeah, because working class white people are all about "guns and heroin." Idiot! Maybe you are the one who is uneducated.

NP. Well to be fair, that poster should have included "bibles".

And all-you-can-eat buffets. Don't forget those.

And Yankee Candles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course you don't care about them.

You hoarded all the country's assets and wealth for yourselves.

This is why Trump won.

AHAHAHA? We did, did we? Dude I 'only' make 120K a year. Guess at the net worth of the man you elected? And his friends. Oh, this is going to be a fun four years. Never did I think the Tea Party would do a 180 and elect a Manhattan billionaire.

To the person who only makes 120K a year -- you live in a bubble if you think this is a small salary. Get out of Wash DC. In the rest of America, that is a very high salary.

Is it? Have you looked at Trump's tax plan? My HHI is $540K. Trump eliminates the AMT and our tax rate will be reduced. I told my husband and he jumped for joy. Thanks TRUMP!!! Oh, for all you middle class suckers, you don't really get a cut. Trump will literally save me thousands of dollars. No, I don't create jobs, but I will enjoy some extra vacations.

I voted for HRC, but now I'll just take my money and let middle america suffer. I don't care.

Amen.
$400K Hilary voter here.
But thank you middle America. We are looking forward to an extra luxury vacation a year.

Huh. You two don't make much sense. Why wouldn't you use your extra money to give to charities or causes you support? "Vote" with your dollars? Tiu seem to need government to decide on what's best with your dollars. Don't complain then when an administration you like uses your tax money on things you don't support. Think for yourselves. Presumably you are highly educated people. Use your brains, and don't be drones. Clearly taxes haven't helped you develop truly charitable natures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I must say it's interesting that all my white relatives, of varying income and education levels, rail against low income black people and other minorities and ask, "what about personal responsibility?"

Yet apparently unemployed whites in the rust belt don't have to be personally responsible for their fate.

Why didn't they move to farm country and take the $10/hr jobs that are offered to American workers? Americans used to move to where the jobs are. Now, they just sit on their asses and complain about how the government doesn't bring them jobs.

The Great Recession changed people's moving rates. If you think people aren't still scared, then I assume you don't know anyone affected by the Great Depression.

The Great Depression saw lots of people moving for jobs, and it was a damn hell harder to move back then than it is today. Spare me the "you don't know what it's like". My father was a blue collar worker in a manufacturing plant who got laid off; I also at one point got laid off. Neither of us blamed the government. We updated our skills and found a new job. That's called personal responsibility. Oh, and he had limited English skills, to boot.

What I was saying is that my grandparents were permanently scarred by the Great Depression. Why is it surprising that people today were scarred by the Great Recession?

The rate of families moving has decreased significantly, a phenomenon that started in 2008. People are irrationally fearful.

Most of the younger families have already moved to where the jobs are. Many small towns are entirely older people. They also have a high and increasing suicide rate.

NP here. You simply can't compare the Great Depression to the situation now. The current problem is that a lot of the unemployed people in the Rust Belt don't have the skill set to match the kind of jobs they would find if they moved. Do you think a former factory worker is really going to find a job in D.C. that pays enough for that person to support a family living in D.C.??? People love to blame immigrants, but if you look around, immigrants who work low-skill, low-pay jobs in D.C. (janitors, lawn maintenance workers, etc.) usually live with extended family. The way they are able to live in a high COL area on such low wages is that they have lots of relatives living together and sharing housing expenses. People like to make fun of them for this, but it is out of necessity. How does one afford rent in D.C. on a job that pays $25k and still support a family of 4? The only way that works is if they share housing expenses with extended family and/or apply for some form of assistance.

The disconnect I see is that the same people who feel disenfranchised and like they have no options (Rust Belt workers) are also the people who seem vehemently against higher education or schooling. The only thing that will change their reality is for them to get training in a skill set that is or will be in demand.

Even infrastructure jobs require skills. Sure, laid-off welders and other skilled tradesmen will be able to find employment with infrastructure projects, but ex-factory-workers will still have a difficult time finding work unless they get some kind of training.

I feel like no one wants to talk about one of the central issues with the Rust Belt, and that is that there used to be a time when a person could get a factory job with relatively little training or higher education and also get a livable salary with benefits and even a pension. They had a path to a middle class life. There are a number of reasons why those jobs went away, but I don't think any politician is going to bring them back. Whatever plan is put in place to help revitalize the Rust Belt, training and education is going to have to be a part of it. But I feel like people don't want to hear that.

The same goes for coal country. The reason people are upset is because, realistically speaking, those skills don't really translate to other jobs. So even if coal workers moved, where would they move and actually find jobs for which they are qualified?

I understand their hurt and skepticism, but I haven't really heard any politician (even the one who won the election) address how to actually fix that situation. But what I have heard is a lot of anti-education rhetoric, and I firmly believe that if there is a solution, education/training is going to have to be part of it. But people don't want to hear that because it's scary. They don't just want jobs; they want their OLD jobs. That simply isn't going to happen. The best hope is to bring new jobs to those regions of the country, but my guess is that the unemployed people in those regions are going to have to get some sort of training/education.

That is why I don't understand why everyone was so "afraid" of what Sanders was proposing -- affordable post-HS education. He wasn't talking about 4-year liberal arts college. He was talking about community colleges and state colleges.

The combination of affordable education and affordable health care would be a bridge for those communities while they transition to a new economy, new jobs (in infrastructure, in energy of the future, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so done about caring about the poor whites in this country. They can have their guns and heroin and bring on their early deaths for all I care.

Why do voters in the red states think Trump is going to solve all of their problems? They already have Republican mayors, governors, state legislatures, congressmen and senators and yet, things are still bad for them. If they really want change, why not enact it on the local level? Why do they think Trump will change anything? I see no explanation for it beyond being brainwashed by Fox News and the Alt Right and not having the brain power to really think about their lot.

Garrison Keillor has said it best:

We liberal elitists are now completely in the clear. The government is in Republican hands. Let them deal with him. Democrats can spend four years raising heirloom tomatoes, meditating, reading Jane Austen, traveling around the country, tasting artisan beers, and let the Republicans build the wall and carry on the trade war with China and deport the undocumented and deal with opioids and we Democrats can go for a long brisk walk and smell the roses.

I will enjoy my tax cuts under Trump and if none of those people are better off in 4 years. Not my problem.

Yeah, because working class white people are all about "guns and heroin." Idiot! Maybe you are the one who is uneducated.

NP. Well to be fair, that poster should have included "bibles".

And here is another reason why Trump won. A large segment of the population are Christians who love God and Country. Muslims also revere the bible as well as the Koran so you insult them too. Only an utter fool would insult someone's religion and expect that person to vote for their party.

Keep on insulting them, calling them stupid, that they don't believe your philosophy-touted-as-science nonsense. You just keep on with that track and see how much more political power you lose. In the past, politicians wisely shut their mouths and did not insult people's religion but this election cycle, perhaps emboldened by polls (and we know how reliable those are now) that stated Americans are turning atheist at a fast rate, the ungodly decided to show their butts and they got spanked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm excited not to see "Thanks Obama" posted by my poor, redneck relatives every time something doesn't go their way.

Years ago my uneducated uncle in MI lived the good life. He worked for Ford and made a good salary in a low COL place. But instead of investing that money and using it for useful things, he blew through it. My mom (CPA) always did his taxes and I can remember her telling him that he needed to be saving more. Even though he made a good living, most of his money was gone by the time the next paycheck came. He never thought long-term; that something could happen and he could lose his job. Because America needs cars! There will always be jobs to build cars! He and his family had multiple Ford cars & trucks, rented their house instead of buying one, had two boats, several quads, a little ice fishing shack in the U.P., all the latest gadgets and toys, etc.

Then he lost his job. He had to sell everything just to get rent money. And then after a few months of only being able to find minimum wage jobs, he had to borrow money from my parents. I remember my parents even sending boxes of Christmas presents for his kids a few years because they had no money. He blames all of that on the Dems. No blame lies in the fact that he never tried in school to get good grades to go to college. Or that he never saved a penny from those large paychecks. Or that he blew his money on crap. Or that he didn't take up my mom's offer to pay for community college so he could learn another trade/skill. The blame lies on the Dems and the illegal Mexicans taking all the good jobs. He voted Trump and he's 100% convinced that those manufacturing jobs are coming back to MI and he'll be living the good life again soon.

Sadly I think there are more government jobs than manufacturing jobs in the US. That doesn't seem right. My uncle worked to his 40s at a low-level, blue collar, municipal government job. Retired and never worked again for 40 years. By the time he died, he was millionaire from his pension. The executor was able to use his money to pay for his nursing home costs. He and his wife had lived frugally, traveled the US extensively and nearly full time. In the end a couple years ago, his heirs split the approximately half-million still left.

Most municipalities no longer offer pensions beyond police, fire, and teachers. New hires are offered 457ans. The Feds offer a small pension, plus SS,and anthing the employee star aside in a TSP fund. Pensions are out. 457s and 401k are in. And the difference between your story and the one you quoted PP is that one person was an extravagant slender and the other saved and lived frugally

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I must say it's interesting that all my white relatives, of varying income and education levels, rail against low income black people and other minorities and ask, "what about personal responsibility?"

Yet apparently unemployed whites in the rust belt don't have to be personally responsible for their fate.

Why didn't they move to farm country and take the $10/hr jobs that are offered to American workers? Americans used to move to where the jobs are. Now, they just sit on their asses and complain about how the government doesn't bring them jobs.

The Great Recession changed people's moving rates. If you think people aren't still scared, then I assume you don't know anyone affected by the Great Depression.

The Great Depression saw lots of people moving for jobs, and it was a damn hell harder to move back then than it is today. Spare me the "you don't know what it's like". My father was a blue collar worker in a manufacturing plant who got laid off; I also at one point got laid off. Neither of us blamed the government. We updated our skills and found a new job. That's called personal responsibility. Oh, and he had limited English skills, to boot.

What I was saying is that my grandparents were permanently scarred by the Great Depression. Why is it surprising that people today were scarred by the Great Recession?

The rate of families moving has decreased significantly, a phenomenon that started in 2008. People are irrationally fearful.

Most of the younger families have already moved to where the jobs are. Many small towns are entirely older people. They also have a high and increasing suicide rate.

NP here. You simply can't compare the Great Depression to the situation now. The current problem is that a lot of the unemployed people in the Rust Belt don't have the skill set to match the kind of jobs they would find if they moved. Do you think a former factory worker is really going to find a job in D.C. that pays enough for that person to support a family living in D.C.??? People love to blame immigrants, but if you look around, immigrants who work low-skill, low-pay jobs in D.C. (janitors, lawn maintenance workers, etc.) usually live with extended family. The way they are able to live in a high COL area on such low wages is that they have lots of relatives living together and sharing housing expenses. People like to make fun of them for this, but it is out of necessity. How does one afford rent in D.C. on a job that pays $25k and still support a family of 4? The only way that works is if they share housing expenses with extended family and/or apply for some form of assistance.

The disconnect I see is that the same people who feel disenfranchised and like they have no options (Rust Belt workers) are also the people who seem vehemently against higher education or schooling. The only thing that will change their reality is for them to get training in a skill set that is or will be in demand.

Even infrastructure jobs require skills. Sure, laid-off welders and other skilled tradesmen will be able to find employment with infrastructure projects, but ex-factory-workers will still have a difficult time finding work unless they get some kind of training.

I feel like no one wants to talk about one of the central issues with the Rust Belt, and that is that there used to be a time when a person could get a factory job with relatively little training or higher education and also get a livable salary with benefits and even a pension. They had a path to a middle class life. There are a number of reasons why those jobs went away, but I don't think any politician is going to bring them back. Whatever plan is put in place to help revitalize the Rust Belt, training and education is going to have to be a part of it. But I feel like people don't want to hear that.

The same goes for coal country. The reason people are upset is because, realistically speaking, those skills don't really translate to other jobs. So even if coal workers moved, where would they move and actually find jobs for which they are qualified?

I understand their hurt and skepticism, but I haven't really heard any politician (even the one who won the election) address how to actually fix that situation. But what I have heard is a lot of anti-education rhetoric, and I firmly believe that if there is a solution, education/training is going to have to be part of it. But people don't want to hear that because it's scary. They don't just want jobs; they want their OLD jobs. That simply isn't going to happen. The best hope is to bring new jobs to those regions of the country, but my guess is that the unemployed people in those regions are going to have to get some sort of training/education.

That is why I don't understand why everyone was so "afraid" of what Sanders was proposing -- affordable post-HS education. He wasn't talking about 4-year liberal arts college. He was talking about community colleges and state colleges.

The combination of affordable education and affordable health care would be a bridge for those communities while they transition to a new economy, new jobs (in infrastructure, in energy of the future, etc.)

You make way too much sense to be understood by those who need to get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm excited not to see "Thanks Obama" posted by my poor, redneck relatives every time something doesn't go their way.

Years ago my uneducated uncle in MI lived the good life. He worked for Ford and made a good salary in a low COL place. But instead of investing that money and using it for useful things, he blew through it. My mom (CPA) always did his taxes and I can remember her telling him that he needed to be saving more. Even though he made a good living, most of his money was gone by the time the next paycheck came. He never thought long-term; that something could happen and he could lose his job. Because America needs cars! There will always be jobs to build cars! He and his family had multiple Ford cars & trucks, rented their house instead of buying one, had two boats, several quads, a little ice fishing shack in the U.P., all the latest gadgets and toys, etc.

Then he lost his job. He had to sell everything just to get rent money. And then after a few months of only being able to find minimum wage jobs, he had to borrow money from my parents. I remember my parents even sending boxes of Christmas presents for his kids a few years because they had no money. He blames all of that on the Dems. No blame lies in the fact that he never tried in school to get good grades to go to college. Or that he never saved a penny from those large paychecks. Or that he blew his money on crap. Or that he didn't take up my mom's offer to pay for community college so he could learn another trade/skill. The blame lies on the Dems and the illegal Mexicans taking all the good jobs. He voted Trump and he's 100% convinced that those manufacturing jobs are coming back to MI and he'll be living the good life again soon.

Sadly I think there are more government jobs than manufacturing jobs in the US. That doesn't seem right. My uncle worked to his 40s at a low-level, blue collar, municipal government job. Retired and never worked again for 40 years. By the time he died, he was millionaire from his pension. The executor was able to use his money to pay for his nursing home costs. He and his wife had lived frugally, traveled the US extensively and nearly full time. In the end a couple years ago, his heirs split the approximately half-million still left.

Do you not realize that the federal pension system has changed dramatically? If your post is accurate, your uncle was likely on the OLD pension system. No federal employee is going to become a millionaire from their pension under the current system, especially with the rising costs of health care. Stop spreading myths.

For what it's worth, I have relatives and know people who retired from industry jobs, police jobs, and the military and have far better pensions and benefits than what federal employees get. Most of them were also actually able to collect those pensions at a younger age. Most federal employees can retire young but aren't able to collect their pension until their close to 60. Even then, their pension is determined by years of service, so they would have had to start as a federal employee at a young age.

Not to mention, nursing home costs have skyrocketed. If your uncle and aunt had to go into a nursing home today, there wouldn't be much leftover for their heirs.