Public education: competing interests, philosophical divide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Except that more public money is typically spent per student at low-income, low SES, low-performing schools. You cannot legislate parental involvement, parental education level, or a stable home life.

No, on a nationwide level, upper income schools get more money (because they are funded by property taxes). In DC, poorer kids get a whopping 5.9% more spending. Hardly makes up for the differences in advantages. https://edexcellence.net/articles/which-washington-area-system-does-best-at-funding-its-neediest-schools-0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. When you step back, it seems really strange that as a society, we're desperate to "integrate the schools," and yet the very reason those schools aren't naturally integrated is that our society chooses to self-segregate (largely by race) into neighborhoods. Seems like we're fighting against our own desires.

Personally, I have a cynical attitude on all this. Here's my view of how we got where we are ....

1. All families want the very best schools for their own children.

2. Almost all families will screw over others to get the best outcome for their children. That's white, black, high-SES, low-SES, everyone. Some may talk a good game to try to hide their self-interest, but it almost always boils down to self-interest.

3. High-SES families are more likely white. Low-SES families are more likely black. Yes, there are exceptions, and skin color is not destiny. Yes, it's unfair and probably a result of historic racism. But in the end, the correlation is clear.

4. White, high-SES children do much better in school than black, low-SES children. They not only score higher on the various test, but they also make for a less chaotic learning environment. Again, there are exceptions, and skin color and income are not destiny. But on average, it's the correlation is difficult to escape.

5. White parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) Since white parents have more money on average, they accomplish this by moving to neighborhoods that are mostly white and high-SES. They're not opposed to all black kids, or all low-income kids, but they're simply and logically playing the averages that high-SES white schools will be better environments for kids to learn. These white parents dislike school choice models, because they earned, saved, and spent their money to get the best schools, and they don't want others to get the same for free. They also don't want too many low-income black students around, because they're more likely on average to disrupt the learning environment.

6. Black parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) High-SES black parents can accomplish this by simply moving to high-SES white neighborhoods. Low-SES black parents can't afford to move to high-income neighborhoods, so they favor school choice and other mechanisms that allow them to get into high-SES white schools. They're trying to get the best possible learning environment for their kids, and they frankly don't care if they're screwing some white families out of spots.

7. So when white posters here argue for "neighborhood schools," what they're really saying is that they don't want too many low-income black kids disrupting the learning environment. They don't really care about the neighborhood; they just want to help their own kids. When black posters here argue for "school choice" and "integration," what they're really saying is that they just want to get a spot for their own kids in the white schools, so they themselves can escape the crappy low-income black schools. They don't really care about integration in general; they just want to help themselves.

8. I don't think that makes either set of parents bad or racist or evil - parents are just all selfish pricks when it comes to seeking the best for their own kids. Simple evolution.

Cynical, I know. Maybe I've had one too many drinks, so I'm not saying it in a sweet way. But I think that's how most people approach this.

Ok wow, this erases a whole history of racism and income inequality in this city and country. Yes, it's true that all parents want what is best for their kids. But you present it like somehow poor black families are on an even playing field with rich white families. But that is so far from true. That fact is why DCPS leadership might focus in particular on helping lower income families. For a white family to insist and push through their preferences, ignoring the people who are really in need in their neighborhoods and cities, would indeed be racist, in impact, if not in intent. At the same time, of course it is totally legitimate to want the neighborhood school the be a place you can send your kids. But if it's not, don't make some theoretical argument about competing interests in a vacuum. Place the blame where it belongs -- income inequality and the legacy of racism.

So acting in your self-interest is now racist because of crap that happened over 50 years ago?

And blacks never act in their self-interst right?

SMH

Let me spell it out for you. People have different levels of being able to enforce their self-interest through their own power. If you're very poor and dealing with a history of discrimination, then you have less power. Therefore, trying to justify people acting in their self-interest as a good system means that you are perpetuating the disadvantages because rich people have more power than poor people. It's not neutral.

So poor people are too incompetent to act in their self-interst now? How do the recent asian immigrants do it? They all move to areas that have great schools and many of them dont have any money. Sorry your argument is more defense of the status quo and letting people play the victim card.

Done talking to you. I doubt you are even a DCPS parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Oh come on, get a grip, that obviously wasn't the salient point. Title 1 schools in this country are generally less than hospitable to all families after a point, low and high SES. DC public schools just aren't very good in the aggregate, though there are points of light, mainly at high-performing charters mostly serving FARMs students. "Rich" people don't send their kids to DC public schools, period. Parents making six figures are hardly rich in this city; they're upper middleclass. It goes without saying that DCPS oozes paternalism, which rankles most high SES families. It's not PC to talk out reverse racism, yet it's pervasive in this city. You're white or Asian and you're "rich," so we're resentful and eager to judge, without knowing your story. No consideration for the fact that you may have grown up poor, attended college on a Pell Grant while borrowing heavily from student loan programs, and worked your tail off, and delayed child bearing until your 40s, to get where you are. Sue me - after 15 years in the city, my reserve of white guilt has run dry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. When you step back, it seems really strange that as a society, we're desperate to "integrate the schools," and yet the very reason those schools aren't naturally integrated is that our society chooses to self-segregate (largely by race) into neighborhoods. Seems like we're fighting against our own desires.

Personally, I have a cynical attitude on all this. Here's my view of how we got where we are ....

1. All families want the very best schools for their own children.

2. Almost all families will screw over others to get the best outcome for their children. That's white, black, high-SES, low-SES, everyone. Some may talk a good game to try to hide their self-interest, but it almost always boils down to self-interest.

3. High-SES families are more likely white. Low-SES families are more likely black. Yes, there are exceptions, and skin color is not destiny. Yes, it's unfair and probably a result of historic racism. But in the end, the correlation is clear.

4. White, high-SES children do much better in school than black, low-SES children. They not only score higher on the various test, but they also make for a less chaotic learning environment. Again, there are exceptions, and skin color and income are not destiny. But on average, it's the correlation is difficult to escape.

5. White parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) Since white parents have more money on average, they accomplish this by moving to neighborhoods that are mostly white and high-SES. They're not opposed to all black kids, or all low-income kids, but they're simply and logically playing the averages that high-SES white schools will be better environments for kids to learn. These white parents dislike school choice models, because they earned, saved, and spent their money to get the best schools, and they don't want others to get the same for free. They also don't want too many low-income black students around, because they're more likely on average to disrupt the learning environment.

6. Black parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) High-SES black parents can accomplish this by simply moving to high-SES white neighborhoods. Low-SES black parents can't afford to move to high-income neighborhoods, so they favor school choice and other mechanisms that allow them to get into high-SES white schools. They're trying to get the best possible learning environment for their kids, and they frankly don't care if they're screwing some white families out of spots.

7. So when white posters here argue for "neighborhood schools," what they're really saying is that they don't want too many low-income black kids disrupting the learning environment. They don't really care about the neighborhood; they just want to help their own kids. When black posters here argue for "school choice" and "integration," what they're really saying is that they just want to get a spot for their own kids in the white schools, so they themselves can escape the crappy low-income black schools. They don't really care about integration in general; they just want to help themselves.

8. I don't think that makes either set of parents bad or racist or evil - parents are just all selfish pricks when it comes to seeking the best for their own kids. Simple evolution.

Cynical, I know. Maybe I've had one too many drinks, so I'm not saying it in a sweet way. But I think that's how most people approach this.

Ok wow, this erases a whole history of racism and income inequality in this city and country. Yes, it's true that all parents want what is best for their kids. But you present it like somehow poor black families are on an even playing field with rich white families. But that is so far from true. That fact is why DCPS leadership might focus in particular on helping lower income families. For a white family to insist and push through their preferences, ignoring the people who are really in need in their neighborhoods and cities, would indeed be racist, in impact, if not in intent. At the same time, of course it is totally legitimate to want the neighborhood school the be a place you can send your kids. But if it's not, don't make some theoretical argument about competing interests in a vacuum. Place the blame where it belongs -- income inequality and the legacy of racism.

So acting in your self-interest is now racist because of crap that happened over 50 years ago?

And blacks never act in their self-interst right?

SMH

Let me spell it out for you. People have different levels of being able to enforce their self-interest through their own power. If you're very poor and dealing with a history of discrimination, then you have less power. Therefore, trying to justify people acting in their self-interest as a good system means that you are perpetuating the disadvantages because rich people have more power than poor people. It's not neutral.

So poor people are too incompetent to act in their self-interst now? How do the recent asian immigrants do it? They all move to areas that have great schools and many of them dont have any money. Sorry your argument is more defense of the status quo and letting people play the victim card.

Done talking to you. I doubt you are even a DCPS parent.

I'm done making excuses for the crappy school environment that is DCPS enjoy the status quo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Except that more public money is typically spent per student at low-income, low SES, low-performing schools. You cannot legislate parental involvement, parental education level, or a stable home life.

No, on a nationwide level, upper income schools get more money (because they are funded by property taxes). In DC, poorer kids get a whopping 5.9% more spending. Hardly makes up for the differences in advantages. https://edexcellence.net/articles/which-washington-area-system-does-best-at-funding-its-neediest-schools-0

Not where I live. Yes, you pay more in property taxes if your property is worth more, but that doesn't mean that the students living in these pricier properties get more public funding per student. The tax money is redistributed throughout the school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Except that more public money is typically spent per student at low-income, low SES, low-performing schools. You cannot legislate parental involvement, parental education level, or a stable home life.

No, on a nationwide level, upper income schools get more money (because they are funded by property taxes). In DC, poorer kids get a whopping 5.9% more spending. Hardly makes up for the differences in advantages. https://edexcellence.net/articles/which-washington-area-system-does-best-at-funding-its-neediest-schools-0

Not where I live. Yes, you pay more in property taxes if your property is worth more, but that doesn't mean that the students living in these pricier properties get more public funding per student. The tax money is redistributed throughout the school system.

That is why it is called (and organized as ) a school district. The district gets and distributes the funds. If you want money to go to your child's individual school, you join the PTA and raise money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. When you step back, it seems really strange that as a society, we're desperate to "integrate the schools," and yet the very reason those schools aren't naturally integrated is that our society chooses to self-segregate (largely by race) into neighborhoods. Seems like we're fighting against our own desires.

Personally, I have a cynical attitude on all this. Here's my view of how we got where we are ....

1. All families want the very best schools for their own children.

2. Almost all families will screw over others to get the best outcome for their children. That's white, black, high-SES, low-SES, everyone. Some may talk a good game to try to hide their self-interest, but it almost always boils down to self-interest.

3. High-SES families are more likely white. Low-SES families are more likely black. Yes, there are exceptions, and skin color is not destiny. Yes, it's unfair and probably a result of historic racism. But in the end, the correlation is clear.

4. White, high-SES children do much better in school than black, low-SES children. They not only score higher on the various test, but they also make for a less chaotic learning environment. Again, there are exceptions, and skin color and income are not destiny. But on average, it's the correlation is difficult to escape.

5. White parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) Since white parents have more money on average, they accomplish this by moving to neighborhoods that are mostly white and high-SES. They're not opposed to all black kids, or all low-income kids, but they're simply and logically playing the averages that high-SES white schools will be better environments for kids to learn. These white parents dislike school choice models, because they earned, saved, and spent their money to get the best schools, and they don't want others to get the same for free. They also don't want too many low-income black students around, because they're more likely on average to disrupt the learning environment.

6. Black parents want their children to attend the best possible schools. (See Point #1) High-SES black parents can accomplish this by simply moving to high-SES white neighborhoods. Low-SES black parents can't afford to move to high-income neighborhoods, so they favor school choice and other mechanisms that allow them to get into high-SES white schools. They're trying to get the best possible learning environment for their kids, and they frankly don't care if they're screwing some white families out of spots.

7. So when white posters here argue for "neighborhood schools," what they're really saying is that they don't want too many low-income black kids disrupting the learning environment. They don't really care about the neighborhood; they just want to help their own kids. When black posters here argue for "school choice" and "integration," what they're really saying is that they just want to get a spot for their own kids in the white schools, so they themselves can escape the crappy low-income black schools. They don't really care about integration in general; they just want to help themselves.

8. I don't think that makes either set of parents bad or racist or evil - parents are just all selfish pricks when it comes to seeking the best for their own kids. Simple evolution.

Cynical, I know. Maybe I've had one too many drinks, so I'm not saying it in a sweet way. But I think that's how most people approach this.[/quo0te]

Who on this board said they felt sorry for me if I thought most people couldn't tell skin color from SES?! How can you read the stuff in this post (and this entire forum) and say that with a straight face?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

My child was tortured by a very high ses child in third grade: a child with a mother on the PTA, a child who has been given everything she ever wanted. And my child wasn't the only one.

I have nothing against this child, as long as we never have.to deal with her or her family again; but the conceit that only poor children are bullies has to stop. Now, we are the only high ses family in my daughter's class. Guess what? No one is bullied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

My child was tortured by a very high ses child in third grade: a child with a mother on the PTA, a child who has been given everything she ever wanted. And my child wasn't the only one.

I have nothing against this child, as long as we never have.to deal with her or her family again; but the conceit that only poor children are bullies has to stop. Now, we are the only high ses family in my daughter's class. Guess what? No one is bullied.

It's really awful that happened to your daughter, and worse that the school didn't intervene earlier. It still doesn't change the calculus that more people with more dysfunctional areas of their lives are going to bring those to the classroom than those who don't.

Sometimes the unarticulated portion of what a parent wants, is for the other children her child's classroom to also be reading and writing at on-grade to advanced levels, and have calm personalities because they have calm home lives. It means the education experience is more conducive to learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

My child was tortured by a very high ses child in third grade: a child with a mother on the PTA, a child who has been given everything she ever wanted. And my child wasn't the only one.

I have nothing against this child, as long as we never have.to deal with her or her family again; but the conceit that only poor children are bullies has to stop. Now, we are the only high ses family in my daughter's class. Guess what? No one is bullied.

It's really awful that happened to your daughter, and worse that the school didn't intervene earlier. It still doesn't change the calculus that more people with more dysfunctional areas of their lives are going to bring those to the classroom than those who don't.

Sometimes the unarticulated portion of what a parent wants, is for the other children her child's classroom to also be reading and writing at on-grade to advanced levels, and have calm personalities because they have calm home lives. It means the education experience is more conducive to learning.

I find your assumption that lower ses people can't have calm home lives to be offensive. And quite wrong. I would never judge a family like this. It would be none of my business--and it's not true. As for advanced reading and math? My child will be doing that regardless. It is not very complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

My child was tortured by a very high ses child in third grade: a child with a mother on the PTA, a child who has been given everything she ever wanted. And my child wasn't the only one.

I have nothing against this child, as long as we never have.to deal with her or her family again; but the conceit that only poor children are bullies has to stop. Now, we are the only high ses family in my daughter's class. Guess what? No one is bullied.

It's really awful that happened to your daughter, and worse that the school didn't intervene earlier. It still doesn't change the calculus that more people with more dysfunctional areas of their lives are going to bring those to the classroom than those who don't.

Sometimes the unarticulated portion of what a parent wants, is for the other children her child's classroom to also be reading and writing at on-grade to advanced levels, and have calm personalities because they have calm home lives. It means the education experience is more conducive to learning.

I find your assumption that lower ses people can't have calm home lives to be offensive. And quite wrong. I would never judge a family like this. It would be none of my business--and it's not true. As for advanced reading and math? My child will be doing that regardless. It is not very complicated.

Okay, then all the sociologists who talk about the poverty of schools with a dearth of two-parent families who are highly-invested, and the dangerous conditions of their lives and school, are all made-up. It's a bunch of liberal whining. Stay in your isolated schools then, no skin off my nose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi. Yep, DS attends Powell. Just to push back on "everybody goes to [insert acronyms for your HRCS]"

And honestly how long will you be willing to do that? My neighbors rented out their house and moved close to Stoddert because they just couldn't stomach the local DCPS. Another family sold their house and moved to MoCo. It's really easy to say that when we're talking about PreK, but by the time you're staring 2nd grade in the face and the school just can't deliver academically, people decamp.

+100. But I don't doubt that the academics are serviceable at many a local DCPS/Title 1 elementary school. From what I've observed over the years, what drives many high SES parents out are threatening behaviors by low SES kids with tough home lives, a variety of paternalistic DCPS policies as interpreted by admins in schools where most parents are low SES (do as we say, we know best), weak extra-curricular options, heavy PTA responsibilities to get anything done, and the grind of dealing with reverse racism. You wind up exhausted, and walking on egg shells at the school, along with your kid. Life is short, and you have options, so you go.

Right, it's the fault of the low SES people making the school inhospitable to rich people. As opposed to rich people voting with their feet when they realize ... hey, what we provide to poor people in this country is pretty bad!

Sometimes low SES kids really do make the environment very inhospitable to anyone with means or ambition. It's called bullying and "snitches get stitches" and every other microagression against a quiet, well-behaved child who just wants to do well in school and make friends.

My child was tortured by a very high ses child in third grade: a child with a mother on the PTA, a child who has been given everything she ever wanted. And my child wasn't the only one.

I have nothing against this child, as long as we never have.to deal with her or her family again; but the conceit that only poor children are bullies has to stop. Now, we are the only high ses family in my daughter's class. Guess what? No one is bullied.

It's really awful that happened to your daughter, and worse that the school didn't intervene earlier. It still doesn't change the calculus that more people with more dysfunctional areas of their lives are going to bring those to the classroom than those who don't.

Sometimes the unarticulated portion of what a parent wants, is for the other children her child's classroom to also be reading and writing at on-grade to advanced levels, and have calm personalities because they have calm home lives. It means the education experience is more conducive to learning.

I find your assumption that lower ses people can't have calm home lives to be offensive. And quite wrong. I would never judge a family like this. It would be none of my business--and it's not true. As for advanced reading and math? My child will be doing that regardless. It is not very complicated.

Okay, then all the sociologists who talk about the poverty of schools with a dearth of two-parent families who are highly-invested, and the dangerous conditions of their lives and school, are all made-up. It's a bunch of liberal whining. Stay in your isolated schools then, no skin off my nose.

I judge people by their actions, not their incomes. If I wanted to self isolate into our exact demographic, we would be in Bethesda. Where I suspect we would find rampant cheating, anorexia, pot smoking and pill abuse among the high school set. All from "happy" homes.

You need to be happy about your own choices and spend less time putting other people down, bless your sad black heart.

[Anonymous]

People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

Once again -- because I think you or someone else keeps on making this "you can't have it both ways" argument in different DCPS threads: NOBODY is saying you have to send your kid to Dunbar. Nobody is saying that high-poverty DCPS schools have no problems. The point is that gentrifiers don't have the right to completely take over schools and railroad everyone else's interests. If you say things like "I don't care about getting rid of free aftercare, the poor parents can suck it up" then yes, I will name call you.