Public education: competing interests, philosophical divide

[Anonymous]

If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We do it every day at the elementary level using guided math and guided reading. Online programs, such as i-Ready and Lexia are tailored to the individual learner. Other subjects, such as social studies and science, are taught at grade level. It helps to have a large classroom library with text levels ranging from primary to high school. Reading aloud while students follow along an above-level text is another strategy for challenging high achievers while building vocabulary and background knowledge of students who are below level.

I see this a lot (the bolded) and, in fact, it's the same line I hear every year from my son's elementary school teachers -- at one of the most competitive-entry DC independent schools, no less.

Here's the problem, though -- out of the 7+ hour school day x 5 days a week, only a limited percentage of time is spent doing those leveled worksheets that are easily tailored to the individual learner. Same for the leveled reading (which ends at Z / 70 anyway, as you know).

But that leaves so many hours of the week ostensibly in "grade level." And that where things fall apart, in our direct experience. The vocabulary used, the level of critical thinking expected, and, especially, the texts and multi-media sources used for science/history/social science/literature in later grades ... these are all targeted to the mean. And when the mean ability is pulled down by understandably struggling students, the higher ability (***not profoundly gifted, just high ability***) learners are short-changed.

Oh dear!
You mean to tell me that they use worksheets at your competitive-entry school?
And your teachers use lower-level vocabulary and lower-level texts during whole class lessons?

Out the 7+ hours of school, are you aware that this includes recess, lunch, specials, and transitions?
Presumably you would not want those activities to be differentiated.

As for the rest, the bulk of our learning time is either modified for ability level, or, if it is whole class, the texts, vocabulary, and conceptual tasks are at or above grade level with accommodations provided for students who need them, as well as challenge activities for students who need more challenge.

Maybe you're in the wrong building.

NP: DCPS Parent here. This teacher's description sounds like our ES and also our MS. Our teachers are trained at differentiation and once you see how to do it well, for a good teacher, it isn't as hard as some make it seem. The teachers have a lot of individual data on a child's abilities, and with that knowledge, they adjust their expectations and focus on where each child needs to grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why everyone is making this so complicated

People should just stay in their neighborhood schools and quit trying to game the system

At each school you would have a high medium and low track.

Capitol Hill is the classic case of overcompliaction. If everyone would just go to their zoned school things would be fine

Wasn't fine for us. Bullying and extreme violence - no thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separate but equal is NOT equal.

Neighborhood schools alone without school choice effectively create segregation due to housing costs. School choice enable desegregation.

As for flexible tracking I am fully in favor since I too believe it is impossible to differentiate enough when students in one class have widely divergent academic abilities. It is not uncommon to have DC students in middle and high school who can barely read or do math. DC also has many students who are years above grade level academically. It is a lie that one teacher can accomadate all their needs in the same classroom.

BS. Do you have an ounce of evidence to support that claim? We have school choice AND largely segregated schools

Suburbs [de juris school districts separate from DC] promote segregation too. So pick your poison. Neighborhood schools or the neighborhood moving to the suburbs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

Once again -- because I think you or someone else keeps on making this "you can't have it both ways" argument in different DCPS threads: NOBODY is saying you have to send your kid to Dunbar. Nobody is saying that high-poverty DCPS schools have no problems. The point is that gentrifiers don't have the right to completely take over schools and railroad everyone else's interests. If you say things like "I don't care about getting rid of free aftercare, the poor parents can suck it up" then yes, I will name call you.

This. And I will help her, because I have an issue with calling some children "the wrong element." I have personally attended and worked in both rich and poor schools. In both environments I saw much of the same behavior--and a lot of it wasn't good. It's just that rich kids don't get a criminal record when they're caught cutting, or bringing a knife to school. On the other hand, studies have shown consistently that a diverse population is good for all students. You need to be less frightened of people you consider the wrong element.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

Once again -- because I think you or someone else keeps on making this "you can't have it both ways" argument in different DCPS threads: NOBODY is saying you have to send your kid to Dunbar. Nobody is saying that high-poverty DCPS schools have no problems. The point is that gentrifiers don't have the right to completely take over schools and railroad everyone else's interests. If you say things like "I don't care about getting rid of free aftercare, the poor parents can suck it up" then yes, I will name call you.

Who cares if you name call? I don't. If people come in and improve a school, they're going to want it to be, you know - improved. That may mean better aftercare that is subsidized for lower SES families.

You can't want these families to bring resources that improve your school and simultaneously resent them for doing so. At least, not if you intend to make a logical argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

Here in DC, poorer schools get *more* funding. That's why every school above 40% FARMS claims to be 99%. The "wealth" in wealthier schools comes from intangibles (higher performing students, lower behavioral problems, pleasanter environment - all of which factor into the highest performing teachers choosing to work there). They also come from tangible items, such as funds raised directly by the PTA specifically for their school? Why? Well, A) because their children attend school there so they're invested and B) because the DCPS budget provides more money to poor schools. As does Title 1 funding. If, for example, Key Elementary is a nice place to teach and attend school, it's because of the families there - it has nothing to do with favoritism in the DCPS budget. If DCPS's budget favored high-performing schools, then Murch would be renovated by now and nobody would be talking about Coolidge ever again except for it's closure date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

Once again -- because I think you or someone else keeps on making this "you can't have it both ways" argument in different DCPS threads: NOBODY is saying you have to send your kid to Dunbar. Nobody is saying that high-poverty DCPS schools have no problems. The point is that gentrifiers don't have the right to completely take over schools and railroad everyone else's interests. If you say things like "I don't care about getting rid of free aftercare, the poor parents can suck it up" then yes, I will name call you.

This. And I will help her, because I have an issue with calling some children "the wrong element." I have personally attended and worked in both rich and poor schools. In both environments I saw much of the same behavior--and a lot of it wasn't good. It's just that rich kids don't get a criminal record when they're caught cutting, or bringing a knife to school. On the other hand, studies have shown consistently that a diverse population is good for all students. You need to be less frightened of people you consider the wrong element.

Congratulations. You are the one who introduced the phrase "the wrong element" to this thread. You must be very proud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

There are people in a lot of DC neighborhoods that are quite literally invested in keeping their property values as high as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

Wait a second. You think the funding is what makes some schools better than others?

I thought it was a straw man when others reference people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

New to DC?

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/FY17%20Budget%20Guide%20V2-1.pdf

You just suggested that DCPS shift funds away from schools in poor neighborhoods to schools in wealthy neighborhoods. I doubt that is what you intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

New to DC?

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/FY17%20Budget%20Guide%20V2-1.pdf

You just suggested that DCPS shift funds away from schools in poor neighborhoods to schools in wealthy neighborhoods. I doubt that is what you intended.

She's probably the same poster with an axe to grind about anyone investing in their schools. It's a bad thing to do that if you're non-AA, it means you're anti-diversity and trying to push people out of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to have it both ways:

Improve the environment of the low-scoring, high poverty schools (like Ballou or Dunbar) and then pretend there is something wrong with families who want to shield their children from the elements at those schools. Schools aren't just a collection of classes - they're a culture of expectations and interactions. So you want to improve the one because there are problems, and then name-call people who want to avoid problems.

Makes no sense.

Once again -- because I think you or someone else keeps on making this "you can't have it both ways" argument in different DCPS threads: NOBODY is saying you have to send your kid to Dunbar. Nobody is saying that high-poverty DCPS schools have no problems. The point is that gentrifiers don't have the right to completely take over schools and railroad everyone else's interests. If you say things like "I don't care about getting rid of free aftercare, the poor parents can suck it up" then yes, I will name call you.

Who cares if you name call? I don't. If people come in and improve a school, they're going to want it to be, you know - improved. That may mean better aftercare that is subsidized for lower SES families.

You can't want these families to bring resources that improve your school and simultaneously resent them for doing so. At least, not if you intend to make a logical argument.

OMG. When will you understand that public policy is not based on some kind of logic puzzle? you seem to think that because you got a good LSAT score you know all the answers. It is so much more complex than that. Negotiating public education in a rapidly gentrifying, highly income-inequal city, against the background of institutional racism, is not a logic puzzle. It is a class A political, public policy, values issue. But you seem to think that your claim to "logic" means that you can do whatever you want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If all schools received equal funding this would not be an issue (that is, quality doesn't increase or decrease based on neighborhoods property values). This would make home-buying a lot easier, too!

New to DC?

http://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/page_content/attachments/FY17%20Budget%20Guide%20V2-1.pdf

You just suggested that DCPS shift funds away from schools in poor neighborhoods to schools in wealthy neighborhoods. I doubt that is what you intended.

She's probably the same poster with an axe to grind about anyone investing in their schools. It's a bad thing to do that if you're non-AA, it means you're anti-diversity and trying to push people out of the city.

Nice caricature. I guess you can't even stand to try to understand the actual argument.

[Anonymous]

God, dc. Why so many wankers? How can you have a city this full of wankers?