how do mothers see women without kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I weren't able to have kids. (We tried everything and then some.) At work, and in our circle of friends, the women with kids really have a sort of lovely community of sorts. How do women like this see women without kids?

Speaking for myself, I appreciate so many people who are kind to my kids (like aunts).
What I hope for is a little bit of understanding when I am tired or worried.

I work with someone who doesn't have kids and always tries to schedule meetings at odds time of day because of traffic.
I pointed out I had a kid on a medication schedule that would enable me to make it to work on time and to stay for 40-45 hours a week, but not to arrive an hour before work, unless someone else helped me with morning routine (I drop my kids off on the way to work). I want to work during the work day, and (actively) parent during non-work hours.

No avail. That kind of thing is a challenge.

Also, mom world can be like a middle school lunch table, although it looks warm from the outide.

I hope a circle of women (moms and not moms) finds you through books, art or some other community. A good friend has a woman's biking group. They are a unit.

When a mom friend is sick, I really try to share the parenting burden (driving/playdates) but to be honest, I don't look after HER, I just try to take things off her plate. Hope that makes sense.

[Anonymous]

I also can't be the only 1 who wonders....I fell in love with my husband before we were a mom and dad.
It would be nice to spend time with the pre-parent versions of ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the woman:
-younger than 30? I see her like me trying to get adulthood going, enjoying the newlywed bliss etc. I was her 10 yrs ago so I can relate as a "past me"
-coworker my age (mid-30s) or older? Friendly but nothing in common. I'm thinking of my kids, they are thinking of their hobbies. They don't want kids...I don't have time for hobbies. I just try to stick to work-related conversations as our personal lives are totally different.
-any age and I find out (not by asking) but if they share as they want kids? Then I can relate as my children were conceived via fertility treatments.

Otherwise, I really don't care that much what other people do/don't do with their lives. Perhaps because I was 32 and had plenty of disposable income but felt so unfulfilled before my babies, I really could care less if they have better stuff. But if stuff or travels or whatever makes them feel more fulfilled than a child, good for them!

But the ONE thing I feel give up when you don't procreate is the right to judge children/parents. You really have NO clue unless you've been a parent. And just because you become a stepmom or stepdad when a kid is half grown (as my aunt who thinks of herself as a mom for marrying a man with a teenage daughter), you still have NO clue what it is like to be a parent to small children. So when a 6mo old is crying on an airplane, you have no right to complain. You were a crying 6mo old at one point too but because you checked the "no" block to parenting... you have NO idea.

I disagree with this. Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I have to tolerate horrible behavior from other people and their kids. They made a choice to have them. They like to wax eloquent about the joy of motherhood. Great. Guess what? You don't get to tell me how great your life is because you are a mom and how empty mine is and then play the "you don't know what it's like" trump card when your children are being obnoxious.

I never judge a parent for a crying child. But I do judge a parent who doesn't make an effort to remove the crying child from a restaurant or other venue where it might be really affecting other people. An airplane is different because it's impossible to step outside with the kid. But even still, I've seen parents respond by at least trying to quiet their child, and even if they aren't successful, I respect them and appreciate that they are trying.

It's the parents who do nothing and let their children just scream and scream and have the attitude that because they decided to have kids, everyone has to deal with it.

^ +1 to all of this.

And this is where you are wrong. You see a parent "letting their children just scream and scream" while the parent may see it very differently. Do you really think that the parent ENJOYS hearing his child scream? WANTS to have a kid screaming in his/her face? Perhaps he or she is handling it but because he is speaking gently to the child and not yelling or hitting him/her, you don't see it. Perhaps he or she has another child nearby and can't reasonably remove the screaming child quickly. Perhaps the child has special needs. Perhaps the child is screaming because the parent IS disciplining them so that this doesn't happen next time. Perhaps they are on an airplane and have behaved impeccably for hours and have had enough of sitting quietly or their ears hurt and there's no way to remove them from the situation or even get them out of their seat while the plane is landing.

Get outside of your own selfish world and think about what those parents are going through when their kid has a public meltdown. Have some compassion. Have some empathy.

I always take my kids outside of a restaurant or other areas if they get upset and might disturb others. But twice now members of the public have flipped out during travel situations, one when my 1 year old who I had spent hours entertaining on a cross country flight got upset for 10 minutes during landing because his ears hurt and a second time when an overtired 3 year old got very upset at an airport traveling hours after bedtime (and was calmed down within 2 minutes, but taking him outside was not an option). Both time I was told by strangers that I needed to "discipline" my child. WHAT THE F? Some people have no clue.

[Anonymous]

I actually feel a great deal of compassion for those who wanted to have children
And for whatever reason could not.
Beyond that I don't think anything of it.
I think not having kids is often an advantage for women in the workforce but
I wouldn't trade anything for that advantage and it's not like that's the fault of
Women wo kids - it's broader cultural reasons.

[Anonymous]

I think they've either made different life choices or have different personal circumstances than I have. No biggie, we can still get along just fine, differences are what make life (and friendships) interesting.

I think it appears that there is a tighter community among moms, simply because we moms have something obvious in common and it's easy to make small talk about it. Some women are very caught up in their self-identification as a MOM, and rarely talk about anything else ... that's hard for me to take as another mom, I can imagine it's annoying for others to listen to. So they really only talk to other moms. They are the minority, though, most moms that I know (including myself!) actually like having some of our conversations revolve around things other than our kids.

[Anonymous]

As someone who is married and who doesn't have kids (by choice), I gotta say, it never occurred to me so many of you are thinking so much about my life and my decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am older and retired anD moved to a 55 and over golf community. We have kids and grandkids. We have met many couples who have never had kids. I find that we cannot relate to them. I'm am uncomfortable talking about my family in front of them. We can have a lovely time together, but we would not gravitate to them, nor them to us. They have more money than we do, have traveled more than we do (and continue to). We could not imagine life without kids and the have no concept of what raising a child or becoming a grandparent is like.
It becomes sad to me when one of them die. I have seen the surviving spouse gravitating to nieces and nephews and family when that have not nourished those relationships over the years. I know one lady who was an only child, married an only child and had no children. Her husband died and she has nobody.
At the end of the day....we all make our bed and lye in it.

What is the MATTER with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the woman:
-younger than 30? I see her like me trying to get adulthood going, enjoying the newlywed bliss etc. I was her 10 yrs ago so I can relate as a "past me"
-coworker my age (mid-30s) or older? Friendly but nothing in common. I'm thinking of my kids, they are thinking of their hobbies. They don't want kids...I don't have time for hobbies. I just try to stick to work-related conversations as our personal lives are totally different.
-any age and I find out (not by asking) but if they share as they want kids? Then I can relate as my children were conceived via fertility treatments.

Otherwise, I really don't care that much what other people do/don't do with their lives. Perhaps because I was 32 and had plenty of disposable income but felt so unfulfilled before my babies, I really could care less if they have better stuff. But if stuff or travels or whatever makes them feel more fulfilled than a child, good for them!

But the ONE thing I feel give up when you don't procreate is the right to judge children/parents. You really have NO clue unless you've been a parent. And just because you become a stepmom or stepdad when a kid is half grown (as my aunt who thinks of herself as a mom for marrying a man with a teenage daughter), you still have NO clue what it is like to be a parent to small children. So when a 6mo old is crying on an airplane, you have no right to complain. You were a crying 6mo old at one point too but because you checked the "no" block to parenting... you have NO idea.

I disagree with this. Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I have to tolerate horrible behavior from other people and their kids. They made a choice to have them. They like to wax eloquent about the joy of motherhood. Great. Guess what? You don't get to tell me how great your life is because you are a mom and how empty mine is and then play the "you don't know what it's like" trump card when your children are being obnoxious.

I never judge a parent for a crying child. But I do judge a parent who doesn't make an effort to remove the crying child from a restaurant or other venue where it might be really affecting other people. An airplane is different because it's impossible to step outside with the kid. But even still, I've seen parents respond by at least trying to quiet their child, and even if they aren't successful, I respect them and appreciate that they are trying.

It's the parents who do nothing and let their children just scream and scream and have the attitude that because they decided to have kids, everyone has to deal with it.

^ +1 to all of this.

And this is where you are wrong. You see a parent "letting their children just scream and scream" while the parent may see it very differently. Do you really think that the parent ENJOYS hearing his child scream? WANTS to have a kid screaming in his/her face? Perhaps he or she is handling it but because he is speaking gently to the child and not yelling or hitting him/her, you don't see it. Perhaps he or she has another child nearby and can't reasonably remove the screaming child quickly. Perhaps the child has special needs. Perhaps the child is screaming because the parent IS disciplining them so that this doesn't happen next time. Perhaps they are on an airplane and have behaved impeccably for hours and have had enough of sitting quietly or their ears hurt and there's no way to remove them from the situation or even get them out of their seat while the plane is landing.

Get outside of your own selfish world and think about what those parents are going through when their kid has a public meltdown. Have some compassion. Have some empathy.

I always take my kids outside of a restaurant or other areas if they get upset and might disturb others. But twice now members of the public have flipped out during travel situations, one when my 1 year old who I had spent hours entertaining on a cross country flight got upset for 10 minutes during landing because his ears hurt and a second time when an overtired 3 year old got very upset at an airport traveling hours after bedtime (and was calmed down within 2 minutes, but taking him outside was not an option). Both time I was told by strangers that I needed to "discipline" my child. WHAT THE F? Some people have no clue.

I did say that I understand on an airplane that a parent cannot remove the child. But, yes, in a restaurant (especially an expensive restaurant), I do expect a parent with a screaming child to take the child either to the restroom, outside, or to leave and go home.

I have every right to judge children/parents, just as you have every right to judge women without children. So you can get off of that high horse.

I don't expect parents to magically make their children stop crying. But I do expect them to remove their screaming children (when they are able) from venues where other patrons are paying customers.

I am tired of hearing "you have no clue what it is like to be a parent to small children." I have no doubt it is difficult. But it is a choice you made. So, yes, sometimes you have to pick up your screaming child and leave the restaurant. I realize that is not fun for you, but it is the right thing to do.

I have never complained about a screaming child on an airplane because I understand the options are limited.

And, yes, I have seen parents turn a blind eye to their misbehaving children. I even once saw a child hit a stranger, and the parent (who also witnessed it) didn't discipline their child nor did they apologize to the stranger. They just smiled, as if it was cute. But it wasn't cute.