Autism and Overdiagnosis: Rampant, in psychologist's opinion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Diagnosis Glass is always greener. We thought our ds had HFA but he is actually schizophrenic.

So sorry. I have cousins - 3 brothers: the oldest is autistic (but highly functional, has career where he does well, owns home, etc), the second was schizophrenic (suicide), the third who is NT never married or had kids (he is a MD).

Heart goes out to your DS and your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read the free excerpt on Amazon and this dude doesn't know what he's talking about with respect to ASD. He discredited himself when he said he could tell after 2 minutes that a diagnosed patient wasn't truly autistic because he laughed at a poop joke during pretend play. My ASD kid can engage in pretend play and laugh at fart jokes, too. However, without the early therapies to teach him the basic skills, he wouldn't be where he is now.

I would not trust a generalist like this guy for an ASD diagnosis.

My 7 yr old and his BFF who are both on the spectrum are going through the poop/fart stage where they make jokes about them CONSTANTLY. Joy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ASD is not a disease like cancer.

So you are arguing for less specificity with ASD? Just lump 'em into one big group?

Good science demands specificity. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. The truth is, today we are calling a multitude of things autism.

Yeah. At the dev ped the other day for my kid that clearly has issues - many - but clearly not asd, no less problematic probably, and probably no less dehabilitating, I saw several classically autistic kids. They look a certain way have a certain posture and a certain voice and a certain way. It's clearly genetic. I think we are calling degrees of intellectual disability all autism. Not popular. But it's true. My kid is cognitively low functioning, there's no autism. But we've been forced that way like ten times. It's fruatrating because: expertise, prognosis, specialities. Why does this need to be explained? There's no "it's just cancer." Come on.

No, they don't. This is the worst kind of stereotyping. There's a saying "If you have seen one kid with autism, you've seen one kid." There is a LOT of variation, even among sibs.

Autism is partly genetic and partly environmental. When you look at genetics for sibs with autism, they have mutations at different locations. It's not even the same genetic problem in the same family.

And also there's no sensible way to describe autism, at least as presently defined, as "degrees of intellectual disability." Get to know a really smart Aspie and it's quickly apparent that what's wrong is not necessarily an intellectual disability. DS is sharp as a razor cognitively--conspicuously a more precise and complex thinker than his NT age peers. His (real) problems are social, emotional, and sensory. The autism diagnosis encompasses a ton of people who do share some compelling common characteristics and may benefit from some similar interventions, but who cannot be stereotyped as having a certain posture, or voice, or level of intellectual functioning. If you think that you know what "real" autism looks like, and that the kids who are not "classically" autistic don't "really" have it, then you're just saying you know better than the people who put together the DSM-V about what these words should mean. But they're just words. Maybe someday we'll have some real scientific way of identifying different underlying etiologies. But for now nothing useful comes of this endless debate about whether the HFA crowd is really autistic or not.

And one thing I've noticed--parents beat this debate to death, but the actual autistic bloggers I read do not. They seem to feel a lot of solidarity and commonality, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ASD is not a disease like cancer.

So you are arguing for less specificity with ASD? Just lump 'em into one big group?

Good science demands specificity. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. The truth is, today we are calling a multitude of things autism.

Yeah. At the dev ped the other day for my kid that clearly has issues - many - but clearly not asd, no less problematic probably, and probably no less dehabilitating, I saw several classically autistic kids. They look a certain way have a certain posture and a certain voice and a certain way. It's clearly genetic. I think we are calling degrees of intellectual disability all autism. Not popular. But it's true. My kid is cognitively low functioning, there's no autism. But we've been forced that way like ten times. It's fruatrating because: expertise, prognosis, specialities. Why does this need to be explained? There's no "it's just cancer." Come on.

No, they don't. This is the worst kind of stereotyping. There's a saying "If you have seen one kid with autism, you've seen one kid." There is a LOT of variation, even among sibs.

Autism is partly genetic and partly environmental. When you look at genetics for sibs with autism, they have mutations at different locations. It's not even the same genetic problem in the same family.

And also there's no sensible way to describe autism, at least as presently defined, as "degrees of intellectual disability." Get to know a really smart Aspie and it's quickly apparent that what's wrong is not necessarily an intellectual disability. DS is sharp as a razor cognitively--conspicuously a more precise and complex thinker than his NT age peers. His (real) problems are social, emotional, and sensory. The autism diagnosis encompasses a ton of people who do share some compelling common characteristics and may benefit from some similar interventions, but who cannot be stereotyped as having a certain posture, or voice, or level of intellectual functioning. If you think that you know what "real" autism looks like, and that the kids who are not "classically" autistic don't "really" have it, then you're just saying you know better than the people who put together the DSM-V about what these words should mean. But they're just words. Maybe someday we'll have some real scientific way of identifying different underlying etiologies. But for now nothing useful comes of this endless debate about whether the HFA crowd is really autistic or not.

And one thing I've noticed--parents beat this debate to death, but the actual autistic bloggers I read do not. They seem to feel a lot of solidarity and commonality, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

One of the diagnostic criteria for getting an Asperger's diagnosis was that the person had to have at least average IQ. Anyone with an intellectual disability would not have been diagnosed as Asperger's. One of my nephews who has ASD/Asperger's is currently rated #1 in chess in his age group in the state they reside. My brother who has Asperger's was a math prodigy who skipped hs to attend Johns Hopkins. People with Asperger's have serious deficits but an intellectual disability is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ASD is not a disease like cancer.

So you are arguing for less specificity with ASD? Just lump 'em into one big group?

Good science demands specificity. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. The truth is, today we are calling a multitude of things autism.

Yeah. At the dev ped the other day for my kid that clearly has issues - many - but clearly not asd, no less problematic probably, and probably no less dehabilitating, I saw several classically autistic kids. They look a certain way have a certain posture and a certain voice and a certain way. It's clearly genetic. I think we are calling degrees of intellectual disability all autism. Not popular. But it's true. My kid is cognitively low functioning, there's no autism. But we've been forced that way like ten times. It's fruatrating because: expertise, prognosis, specialities. Why does this need to be explained? There's no "it's just cancer." Come on.

No, they don't. This is the worst kind of stereotyping. There's a saying "If you have seen one kid with autism, you've seen one kid." There is a LOT of variation, even among sibs.

Autism is partly genetic and partly environmental. When you look at genetics for sibs with autism, they have mutations at different locations. It's not even the same genetic problem in the same family.

And also there's no sensible way to describe autism, at least as presently defined, as "degrees of intellectual disability." Get to know a really smart Aspie and it's quickly apparent that what's wrong is not necessarily an intellectual disability. DS is sharp as a razor cognitively--conspicuously a more precise and complex thinker than his NT age peers. His (real) problems are social, emotional, and sensory. The autism diagnosis encompasses a ton of people who do share some compelling common characteristics and may benefit from some similar interventions, but who cannot be stereotyped as having a certain posture, or voice, or level of intellectual functioning. If you think that you know what "real" autism looks like, and that the kids who are not "classically" autistic don't "really" have it, then you're just saying you know better than the people who put together the DSM-V about what these words should mean. But they're just words. Maybe someday we'll have some real scientific way of identifying different underlying etiologies. But for now nothing useful comes of this endless debate about whether the HFA crowd is really autistic or not.

And one thing I've noticed--parents beat this debate to death, but the actual autistic bloggers I read do not. They seem to feel a lot of solidarity and commonality, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

One of the diagnostic criteria for getting an Asperger's diagnosis was that the person had to have at least average IQ. Anyone with an intellectual disability would not have been diagnosed as Asperger's. One of my nephews who has ASD/Asperger's is currently rated #1 in chess in his age group in the state they reside. My brother who has Asperger's was a math prodigy who skipped hs to attend Johns Hopkins. People with Asperger's have serious deficits but an intellectual disability is not one of them.

Aspergers has very specific categories as you are describing but they also took Aspergers away and now lump it all in as Autism. They also do not have any type of speech delays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: This all reminds me of a conversation I had in the waiting room for OT a few years ago. my son was playing and I was trying to keep an eye on him.

Other Mom: He's not autistic you know. He plays with doors because he has MERLD.

Me: I'm sorry what? Who?

Other mom: You probably think my child is autistic because he keeps opening and closing the door on the toy house, but he isn't.

Me: Oh, OK. I have no idea which child is yours. I am just trying to keep an eye on my son.

Other mom: (points out her child who is playing with doors and then stops to flap with joy.) Flapping doesn't mean autism you know.

Me: OK. Listen, I don't observe and diagnose other people's children. I am just trying to keep an eye on mine.

This went on longer and then she asked my child's diagnosis. usually I don't share he has HFA, but I figured maybe it make her calm down.

Me: He has HFA.

Other mom: No, her doesn't. What doctors have you been to? This is what happens, they just throw around the autism diagnosis. I bet your child has MERLD.

Me: I actually think the dx fits and I also think he is benefiting from the help he is getting.

Other mom then proceeds to tell me what doctors I need to see, etc. FINALLY, my child's OT comes out to get him for the session and I left to "get something from my car." When I returned I sat next to someone quietly reading and I read.

I've had that but it was with my child having apraxia as their child did and being told to use this provider and that provider. It is very frustrating. The difference between a MERLD kid is that if a child was hand flapping or opening a door, you can tell them to stop (if they are on the higher functioning end of MERLD like mine). Mine will stop or argue with me about stopping. A HFA cannot stop on command. "typical" kids do handflap and do those things too but it looks slightly different.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I know Asperger's is officially Autism Spectrum Disorder, level 1, but every clinician, professional and SN schools who work with these kids still use "asperger's" since no one knows what you are talking if you say "my kid has ASD, level 1"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP does not have a child diagnosed with autism but feels the need to tell the rest of us who do have a child diagnosed with autism that our kid is probably misdiagnosed and will suffer a lifetime of stigma from having ASD.

Gee, thanks.

Actually, the OP has a child the schools tried their damnedest to label with "educational autism." The six medical professionals who saw him all gave him a language disorder diagnosis and said it was not autism.

There are only 13 education categories under which someone can get an IEP so the school is not looking for an exact diagnosis but the category that best matches the types of services the child needs. So the OP is getting the services needed under educational "autism" but still feels the need to complain to parents whose kids have an autism diagnosis about how autism is over diagnosed which makes absolutely no sense. An educational autism diagnosis does not equal a medical diagnosis and if you have so much issue with how their kid does not have autism but got categorized in their IEP then adk for another education label:

http://www.understandingspecialeducation.com/13-categories-of-special-education.html

Although I don't know why you would waste your time about semantics when you are getting the services you need. Sigh.

I am the OP. I refused the educational autism label because it was inaccurate. The school threatened, they bribed, they harassed us to try and get us to take the autism label -- and ultimately gave DS all the services under the speech and language label, where a MERLD child belongs.

Do you want a cookie? Do you get to sit at a special lunch table to avoid being contaminated by the kids with ASDs? Does it comfort you at night to think "At least my kid doesn't have autism....?"

Whatever gets you through the night, sugar.

Placing a MERLD kid with an ASD kid (without a mix of kids) would be a disaster as many MERLD kids need that peer role model. So, if an ASD kid was there, they would try to copy that child's patterns and its a problem. It not about contaminating but about the child's needs and its important for MERLD kids to have specific type of peer interations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ASD is not a disease like cancer.

So you are arguing for less specificity with ASD? Just lump 'em into one big group?

Good science demands specificity. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. The truth is, today we are calling a multitude of things autism.

Yeah. At the dev ped the other day for my kid that clearly has issues - many - but clearly not asd, no less problematic probably, and probably no less dehabilitating, I saw several classically autistic kids. They look a certain way have a certain posture and a certain voice and a certain way. It's clearly genetic. I think we are calling degrees of intellectual disability all autism. Not popular. But it's true. My kid is cognitively low functioning, there's no autism. But we've been forced that way like ten times. It's fruatrating because: expertise, prognosis, specialities. Why does this need to be explained? There's no "it's just cancer." Come on.

No, they don't. This is the worst kind of stereotyping. There's a saying "If you have seen one kid with autism, you've seen one kid." There is a LOT of variation, even among sibs.

Autism is partly genetic and partly environmental. When you look at genetics for sibs with autism, they have mutations at different locations. It's not even the same genetic problem in the same family.

And also there's no sensible way to describe autism, at least as presently defined, as "degrees of intellectual disability." Get to know a really smart Aspie and it's quickly apparent that what's wrong is not necessarily an intellectual disability. DS is sharp as a razor cognitively--conspicuously a more precise and complex thinker than his NT age peers. His (real) problems are social, emotional, and sensory. The autism diagnosis encompasses a ton of people who do share some compelling common characteristics and may benefit from some similar interventions, but who cannot be stereotyped as having a certain posture, or voice, or level of intellectual functioning. If you think that you know what "real" autism looks like, and that the kids who are not "classically" autistic don't "really" have it, then you're just saying you know better than the people who put together the DSM-V about what these words should mean. But they're just words. Maybe someday we'll have some real scientific way of identifying different underlying etiologies. But for now nothing useful comes of this endless debate about whether the HFA crowd is really autistic or not.

And one thing I've noticed--parents beat this debate to death, but the actual autistic bloggers I read do not. They seem to feel a lot of solidarity and commonality, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

One of the diagnostic criteria for getting an Asperger's diagnosis was that the person had to have at least average IQ. Anyone with an intellectual disability would not have been diagnosed as Asperger's. One of my nephews who has ASD/Asperger's is currently rated #1 in chess in his age group in the state they reside. My brother who has Asperger's was a math prodigy who skipped hs to attend Johns Hopkins. People with Asperger's have serious deficits but an intellectual disability is not one of them.

Aspergers has very specific categories as you are describing but they also took Aspergers away and now lump it all in as Autism. They also do not have any type of speech delays.

They have pragmatic speech delays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I know Asperger's is officially Autism Spectrum Disorder, level 1, but every clinician, professional and SN schools who work with these kids still use "asperger's" since no one knows what you are talking if you say "my kid has ASD, level 1"

Agreed, and I don't like some of the changes. It is still used along with high functioning autism but technically it isn't correct. Aspergers has always been a form of autism so it makes no sense kids did not get the same level of services as ASD diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ASD is not a disease like cancer.

So you are arguing for less specificity with ASD? Just lump 'em into one big group?

Good science demands specificity. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. The truth is, today we are calling a multitude of things autism.

Yeah. At the dev ped the other day for my kid that clearly has issues - many - but clearly not asd, no less problematic probably, and probably no less dehabilitating, I saw several classically autistic kids. They look a certain way have a certain posture and a certain voice and a certain way. It's clearly genetic. I think we are calling degrees of intellectual disability all autism. Not popular. But it's true. My kid is cognitively low functioning, there's no autism. But we've been forced that way like ten times. It's fruatrating because: expertise, prognosis, specialities. Why does this need to be explained? There's no "it's just cancer." Come on.

No, they don't. This is the worst kind of stereotyping. There's a saying "If you have seen one kid with autism, you've seen one kid." There is a LOT of variation, even among sibs.

Autism is partly genetic and partly environmental. When you look at genetics for sibs with autism, they have mutations at different locations. It's not even the same genetic problem in the same family.

And also there's no sensible way to describe autism, at least as presently defined, as "degrees of intellectual disability." Get to know a really smart Aspie and it's quickly apparent that what's wrong is not necessarily an intellectual disability. DS is sharp as a razor cognitively--conspicuously a more precise and complex thinker than his NT age peers. His (real) problems are social, emotional, and sensory. The autism diagnosis encompasses a ton of people who do share some compelling common characteristics and may benefit from some similar interventions, but who cannot be stereotyped as having a certain posture, or voice, or level of intellectual functioning. If you think that you know what "real" autism looks like, and that the kids who are not "classically" autistic don't "really" have it, then you're just saying you know better than the people who put together the DSM-V about what these words should mean. But they're just words. Maybe someday we'll have some real scientific way of identifying different underlying etiologies. But for now nothing useful comes of this endless debate about whether the HFA crowd is really autistic or not.

And one thing I've noticed--parents beat this debate to death, but the actual autistic bloggers I read do not. They seem to feel a lot of solidarity and commonality, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

One of the diagnostic criteria for getting an Asperger's diagnosis was that the person had to have at least average IQ. Anyone with an intellectual disability would not have been diagnosed as Asperger's. One of my nephews who has ASD/Asperger's is currently rated #1 in chess in his age group in the state they reside. My brother who has Asperger's was a math prodigy who skipped hs to attend Johns Hopkins. People with Asperger's have serious deficits but an intellectual disability is not one of them.

Aspergers has very specific categories as you are describing but they also took Aspergers away and now lump it all in as Autism. They also do not have any type of speech delays.

They have pragmatic speech delays.

Very true, but when I look at the 2-6 range, with MERLD/late talkers as a comparison I don't worry about pragmatic speech till much later. When I refer to speech delays, I am far more worried about receptive, then expressive and aprixia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This all reminds me of a conversation I had in the waiting room for OT a few years ago. my son was playing and I was trying to keep an eye on him.

Other Mom: He's not autistic you know. He plays with doors because he has MERLD.

Me: I'm sorry what? Who?

Other mom: You probably think my child is autistic because he keeps opening and closing the door on the toy house, but he isn't.

Me: Oh, OK. I have no idea which child is yours. I am just trying to keep an eye on my son.

Other mom: (points out her child who is playing with doors and then stops to flap with joy.) Flapping doesn't mean autism you know.

Me: OK. Listen, I don't observe and diagnose other people's children. I am just trying to keep an eye on mine.

This went on longer and then she asked my child's diagnosis. usually I don't share he has HFA, but I figured maybe it make her calm down.

Me: He has HFA.

Other mom: No, her doesn't. What doctors have you been to? This is what happens, they just throw around the autism diagnosis. I bet your child has MERLD.

Me: I actually think the dx fits and I also think he is benefiting from the help he is getting.

Other mom then proceeds to tell me what doctors I need to see, etc. FINALLY, my child's OT comes out to get him for the session and I left to "get something from my car." When I returned I sat next to someone quietly reading and I read.

I've had that but it was with my child having apraxia as their child did and being told to use this provider and that provider. It is very frustrating. The difference between a MERLD kid is that if a child was hand flapping or opening a door, you can tell them to stop (if they are on the higher functioning end of MERLD like mine). Mine will stop or argue with me about stopping. A HFA cannot stop on command. "typical" kids do handflap and do those things too but it looks slightly different.

My kid with HFA stops on command and can and will argue with me about stopping. You seem to have a very skewed idea about how a kid with HFA presents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I know Asperger's is officially Autism Spectrum Disorder, level 1, but every clinician, professional and SN schools who work with these kids still use "asperger's" since no one knows what you are talking if you say "my kid has ASD, level 1"

Agreed, and I don't like some of the changes. It is still used along with high functioning autism but technically it isn't correct. Aspergers has always been a form of autism so it makes no sense kids did not get the same level of services as ASD diagnosis.

I like the change since it made it much easier for kids with Asperger's to get services. No problem with the "stigma" of autism here.

My DS only needs social and behavioral supports in his IEP but I'm happy he is getting it and that the change in the DSM made it much easier for kids like him to get the help they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This all reminds me of a conversation I had in the waiting room for OT a few years ago. my son was playing and I was trying to keep an eye on him.

Other Mom: He's not autistic you know. He plays with doors because he has MERLD.

Me: I'm sorry what? Who?

Other mom: You probably think my child is autistic because he keeps opening and closing the door on the toy house, but he isn't.

Me: Oh, OK. I have no idea which child is yours. I am just trying to keep an eye on my son.

Other mom: (points out her child who is playing with doors and then stops to flap with joy.) Flapping doesn't mean autism you know.

Me: OK. Listen, I don't observe and diagnose other people's children. I am just trying to keep an eye on mine.

This went on longer and then she asked my child's diagnosis. usually I don't share he has HFA, but I figured maybe it make her calm down.

Me: He has HFA.

Other mom: No, her doesn't. What doctors have you been to? This is what happens, they just throw around the autism diagnosis. I bet your child has MERLD.

Me: I actually think the dx fits and I also think he is benefiting from the help he is getting.

Other mom then proceeds to tell me what doctors I need to see, etc. FINALLY, my child's OT comes out to get him for the session and I left to "get something from my car." When I returned I sat next to someone quietly reading and I read.

I've had that but it was with my child having apraxia as their child did and being told to use this provider and that provider. It is very frustrating. The difference between a MERLD kid is that if a child was hand flapping or opening a door, you can tell them to stop (if they are on the higher functioning end of MERLD like mine). Mine will stop or argue with me about stopping. A HFA cannot stop on command. "typical" kids do handflap and do those things too but it looks slightly different.

My kid with HFA stops on command and can and will argue with me about stopping. You seem to have a very skewed idea about how a kid with HFA presents.

+1 Please stop the misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This all reminds me of a conversation I had in the waiting room for OT a few years ago. my son was playing and I was trying to keep an eye on him.

Other Mom: He's not autistic you know. He plays with doors because he has MERLD.

Me: I'm sorry what? Who?

Other mom: You probably think my child is autistic because he keeps opening and closing the door on the toy house, but he isn't.

Me: Oh, OK. I have no idea which child is yours. I am just trying to keep an eye on my son.

Other mom: (points out her child who is playing with doors and then stops to flap with joy.) Flapping doesn't mean autism you know.

Me: OK. Listen, I don't observe and diagnose other people's children. I am just trying to keep an eye on mine.

This went on longer and then she asked my child's diagnosis. usually I don't share he has HFA, but I figured maybe it make her calm down.

Me: He has HFA.

Other mom: No, her doesn't. What doctors have you been to? This is what happens, they just throw around the autism diagnosis. I bet your child has MERLD.

Me: I actually think the dx fits and I also think he is benefiting from the help he is getting.

Other mom then proceeds to tell me what doctors I need to see, etc. FINALLY, my child's OT comes out to get him for the session and I left to "get something from my car." When I returned I sat next to someone quietly reading and I read.

I've had that but it was with my child having apraxia as their child did and being told to use this provider and that provider. It is very frustrating. The difference between a MERLD kid is that if a child was hand flapping or opening a door, you can tell them to stop (if they are on the higher functioning end of MERLD like mine). Mine will stop or argue with me about stopping. A HFA cannot stop on command. "typical" kids do handflap and do those things too but it looks slightly different.

My kid with HFA stops on command and can and will argue with me about stopping. You seem to have a very skewed idea about how a kid with HFA presents.

Here is the Level 1 autism severity levels from the DSM 5. Doesn't with what you are saying at all.

Inflexibility of behavior causes significant interference with functioning in one or more contexts. Difficulty switching between activities. Problems of organization and planning hamper independence.