Family of Four on 90k - An Upper Middle Class Existence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call bull shit on buying a 800k row house on a 90k salary

Call BS all you like, but I bought my $800k row house on a lower salary than that. Of course it wasn't worth $800k then, but you understood that, right?

Do you want a cookie? Think of how much salary you would need to buy that same home today. So the whole 90k and I am making it fine argument is BULLSHIT if you bought before the bubble. thanks and troll through you dick.

Yes please. Chocolate chip would be nice.

Suggest you read my post above about how I did it and how you can still do it. It doesn't happen overnight and back in 2004 I was kicking myself for not buying five years earlier.

Three is no opportunity to make that type of appreciation in the region today and probably ever again. You won the lottery be grateful for what you lucked out on. Most people aren't as lucky.

so you will never have a nice life because of this?? Get over it! There are several broken records on dcum and this is one of them.

NP, no one jumped to that ridiculous conclusion but you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's what I thought in 2004. I was wrong and so are you. Bit a fixer upper in a rough neighborhood and fix it up slowly, invest in your home and your community

That's probably not going to work if you need your kids to attend their local public school.

What I love most about PP was her idea that 'sweat equity' was what added value to her property. It was pure dumb luck to buy before the bubble and gentrification. And it could easily have been a bad bet, just like folks keep expecting acps schools to turnaround.

So the only way to make it to middle class living is to build a time machine or risk your life in a shady neighborhood? And if you think DC will keep appreciating, go check out GMU Fuller discussion on the regions dropping GDP.

You're pretty clueless here. Remember I bought a FORECLOSURE. Yes, the work I have done on the home has added significant value. I also didn't pay through the nose for the work unlike many here in DCUM-LALA-LAND.

Yes, you gambled and won. Woo-hoo. I have friends who bought foreclosure in Phoenix who lost their shirts. You bought a home where most people can't make a place to live (b/c schools are so bad). People on DCUM are not buying fancy homes, they are paying through the nose for decent schools and live in $ditboxes. The value you put into the house from renovation is maybe $100k, the rest is bubble appreciation. You get a clue and have some modesty.

We bought an older townhouse in a good school area - and I don't consider it a **itbox. We have a HHI like OP and we are doing just fine. It can be done. Its about choices.

Hate to break it to you but a TH is worse than $ditbox, especially old ones. And I say this as a TH owner.

If you live in a TH you are definitely not upper middle class. What is your commute?

Moreover, do you expect to see bubble appreciation to the tune of half a million dollars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's what I thought in 2004. I was wrong and so are you. Bit a fixer upper in a rough neighborhood and fix it up slowly, invest in your home and your community

That's probably not going to work if you need your kids to attend their local public school.

What I love most about PP was her idea that 'sweat equity' was what added value to her property. It was pure dumb luck to buy before the bubble and gentrification. And it could easily have been a bad bet, just like folks keep expecting acps schools to turnaround.

So the only way to make it to middle class living is to build a time machine or risk your life in a shady neighborhood? And if you think DC will keep appreciating, go check out GMU Fuller discussion on the regions dropping GDP.

You're pretty clueless here. Remember I bought a FORECLOSURE. Yes, the work I have done on the home has added significant value. I also didn't pay through the nose for the work unlike many here in DCUM-LALA-LAND.

Yes, you gambled and won. Woo-hoo. I have friends who bought foreclosure in Phoenix who lost their shirts. You bought a home where most people can't make a place to live (b/c schools are so bad). People on DCUM are not buying fancy homes, they are paying through the nose for decent schools and live in $ditboxes. The value you put into the house from renovation is maybe $100k, the rest is bubble appreciation. You get a clue and have some modesty.

We bought an older townhouse in a good school area - and I don't consider it a **itbox. We have a HHI like OP and we are doing just fine. It can be done. Its about choices.

Hate to break it to you but a TH is worse than $ditbox, especially old ones. And I say this as a TH owner.

If you live in a TH you are definitely not upper middle class. What is your commute?

Moreover, do you expect to see bubble appreciation to the tune of half a million dollars?

Where did I say I was upper middle class? I said we were doing fine. I don't expect appreciation. I expect to live our lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I call bull shit on buying a 800k row house on a 90k salary

Call BS all you like, but I bought my $800k row house on a lower salary than that. Of course it wasn't worth $800k then, but you understood that, right?

Do you want a cookie? Think of how much salary you would need to buy that same home today. So the whole 90k and I am making it fine argument is BULLSHIT if you bought before the bubble. thanks and troll through you dick.

Yes please. Chocolate chip would be nice.

Suggest you read my post above about how I did it and how you can still do it. It doesn't happen overnight and back in 2004 I was kicking myself for not buying five years earlier.

Three is no opportunity to make that type of appreciation in the region today and probably ever again. You won the lottery be grateful for what you lucked out on. Most people aren't as lucky.

so you will never have a nice life because of this?? Get over it! There are several broken records on dcum and this is one of them.

NP, no one jumped to that ridiculous conclusion but you.

Just tired of the "woe is me - we missed the bubble so life sucks."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's what I thought in 2004. I was wrong and so are you. Bit a fixer upper in a rough neighborhood and fix it up slowly, invest in your home and your community

That's probably not going to work if you need your kids to attend their local public school.

What I love most about PP was her idea that 'sweat equity' was what added value to her property. It was pure dumb luck to buy before the bubble and gentrification. And it could easily have been a bad bet, just like folks keep expecting acps schools to turnaround.

So the only way to make it to middle class living is to build a time machine or risk your life in a shady neighborhood? And if you think DC will keep appreciating, go check out GMU Fuller discussion on the regions dropping GDP.

You're pretty clueless here. Remember I bought a FORECLOSURE. Yes, the work I have done on the home has added significant value. I also didn't pay through the nose for the work unlike many here in DCUM-LALA-LAND.

Yes, you gambled and won. Woo-hoo. I have friends who bought foreclosure in Phoenix who lost their shirts. You bought a home where most people can't make a place to live (b/c schools are so bad). People on DCUM are not buying fancy homes, they are paying through the nose for decent schools and live in $ditboxes. The value you put into the house from renovation is maybe $100k, the rest is bubble appreciation. You get a clue and have some modesty.

We bought an older townhouse in a good school area - and I don't consider it a **itbox. We have a HHI like OP and we are doing just fine. It can be done. Its about choices.

Hate to break it to you but a TH is worse than $ditbox, especially old ones. And I say this as a TH owner.

If you live in a TH you are definitely not upper middle class. What is your commute?

Moreover, do you expect to see bubble appreciation to the tune of half a million dollars?

Where did I say I was upper middle class? I said we were doing fine. I don't expect appreciation. I expect to live our lives.

Oh and commute is 15 minutes.

[Anonymous]

OP, you're not saving for college on that income. You'll need the Roths and TSP to pay for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, our lifestyle and income is similar to yours, except for the homeschooling business. Be prepared to be ripped to shreds for daring to suggest that anyone can survive on HHI less than 200k. I would offer more support, but it is pretty much pointless.

Survive, sure. Live a really comfortable lifestyle with nice things and international trips? 90K is not sufficient for that. Not required to have a great life, but nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This math is difficult, OP.

HHI is 90k

Max out TSP and Roths for a combined 19,500 in 2014 - down to 70.5k

Assume for the sake of argument that you pay 15% in federal and state taxes, Medicare, and social security. That's 10.5k, down to 60k.

You tithe 10% gross - down to 51k. That's 4250 each month. Even assuming you have a tremendous amount of equity in your home (and if you don't think there is luck involved in your real estate purchases, you're nuts) assume your mortgage is $1000/month. Down to 3250 per month. Out of that, you pay for health insurance, car insurance, car repairs, new cars, fuel, electric, food, cable, Internet, cell phones, land line, entertainment, annual trips to CA, other entertainment, and I'm sure there's a host of other things I'm forgetting.

Can it be done? Sure. Is it upper middle class? Sorry, no.

Yes, while it's not hard to believe that OP's family can make it on 90k a year - and it's surely impressive that they are maxing a TSP and 2 IRAs (although wouldn't that be $17.5k + ($5500 * 2) for a total of $28.5k?) - living on what remains with two kids and a mortgage is NOT an upper middle class existence.

[Anonymous]

I don't consider homeschooling kids an upper middle class thing to do. That's something poor people and super religious people do. If you are living in an area with great schools, you send your kids to the great schools. Why wouldn't you?

Your kids will probably not have the same opportunities you did thanks to their homeschool education. Their peers will have the advantages that come with graduating from some of the best school districts in the country. Why wouldn't you want to give them that edge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider homeschooling kids an upper middle class thing to do. That's something poor people and super religious people do. If you are living in an area with great schools, you send your kids to the great schools. Why wouldn't you?

Your kids will probably not have the same opportunities you did thanks to their homeschool education. Their peers will have the advantages that come with graduating from some of the best school districts in the country. Why wouldn't you want to give them that edge?

And this has to do with their finances how? I wouldn't choose homeschooling but that isn't really the point of this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider homeschooling kids an upper middle class thing to do. That's something poor people and super religious people do. If you are living in an area with great schools, you send your kids to the great schools. Why wouldn't you?

Your kids will probably not have the same opportunities you did thanks to their homeschool education. Their peers will have the advantages that come with graduating from some of the best school districts in the country. Why wouldn't you want to give them that edge?

The first time I heard about homeschooling I thought the same as PP. However, now with two kids in school ages 8 & 11, I see how much time gets wasted in school and I think homeschooling when done properly could be a great option. I don't believe that I'm smart enough to successfully home school my kids- but if I had the monetary resources to hire year round tutors- I'd do it in a heart beat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider homeschooling kids an upper middle class thing to do. That's something poor people and super religious people do. If you are living in an area with great schools, you send your kids to the great schools. Why wouldn't you?

Your kids will probably not have the same opportunities you did thanks to their homeschool education. Their peers will have the advantages that come with graduating from some of the best school districts in the country. Why wouldn't you want to give them that edge?

Actually I see it as an upper middle class thing to do. The people that I know who home school have kids with exceptional talents and do it so that their child can devote more time to the talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider homeschooling kids an upper middle class thing to do. That's something poor people and super religious people do. If you are living in an area with great schools, you send your kids to the great schools. Why wouldn't you?

Your kids will probably not have the same opportunities you did thanks to their homeschool education. Their peers will have the advantages that come with graduating from some of the best school districts in the country. Why wouldn't you want to give them that edge?

And this has to do with their finances how? I wouldn't choose homeschooling but that isn't really the point of this post.

Presumably because wherever they are living does not have very good public schools, making their housing costs that much more affordable. OP has never said where he/she is, but I live in an average school assignment (not Bethesda or McLean), and my house still cost more than $500k (and it's nothing special, believe me). To the poster recommending Hyattsville and Mt. Rainier, I agree, those are great places to live and get in on the equity train. The problem is if you have school-aged children (or will soon), you may not like what you find in the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's what I thought in 2004. I was wrong and so are you. Bit a fixer upper in a rough neighborhood and fix it up slowly, invest in your home and your community

That's probably not going to work if you need your kids to attend their local public school.

What I love most about PP was her idea that 'sweat equity' was what added value to her property. It was pure dumb luck to buy before the bubble and gentrification. And it could easily have been a bad bet, just like folks keep expecting acps schools to turnaround.

So the only way to make it to middle class living is to build a time machine or risk your life in a shady neighborhood? And if you think DC will keep appreciating, go check out GMU Fuller discussion on the regions dropping GDP.

You're pretty clueless here. Remember I bought a FORECLOSURE. Yes, the work I have done on the home has added significant value. I also didn't pay through the nose for the work unlike many here in DCUM-LALA-LAND.

Yes, you gambled and won. Woo-hoo. I have friends who bought foreclosure in Phoenix who lost their shirts. You bought a home where most people can't make a place to live (b/c schools are so bad). People on DCUM are not buying fancy homes, they are paying through the nose for decent schools and live in $ditboxes. The value you put into the house from renovation is maybe $100k, the rest is bubble appreciation. You get a clue and have some modesty.

We bought an older townhouse in a good school area - and I don't consider it a **itbox. We have a HHI like OP and we are doing just fine. It can be done. Its about choices.

Hate to break it to you but a TH is worse than $ditbox, especially old ones. And I say this as a TH owner.

If you live in a TH you are definitely not upper middle class. What is your commute?

Moreover, do you expect to see bubble appreciation to the tune of half a million dollars?

Where did I say I was upper middle class? I said we were doing fine. I don't expect appreciation. I expect to live our lives.

Oh and commute is 15 minutes.

Wow, low cost, good schools and 15 minutes to DC? Sign me up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper middle class starts at 300K, but think whatever you want.

I don't think SES can be determined on income alone. A household with a single earner making 200k a year that doesn't have childcare costs or student loans and bought a house 5 years ago is probably more comfortable than a dual income household of 300k with two kids in daycare, dual student loans, and a mortgage on a house bought in 2014. You have to look at the overall picture. That is why advice from someone who first invested in the real estate market over a decade ago and doesn't have childcare costs isn't particularly helpful for people who are even a few years younger and starting out in the DC area.

The lifestyle described is very much middle class. Maybe even lower middle class because they have to skimp on everything.