Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a disaster. There are a few outliers on here who are trying to convince everyone that CC makes sense, and that anyone who opposes it is either an idiot or a right-wing nut job....or both I guess.

All I can tell you is that my DS hates it. used to be a happy student, now our nights are filled with tears (from me,mom) because we find ourselves not being able to call upon our knowledge and math skills to solve a simple 6th grade math problem. We have spent hours literally trolling websites for HOW TO videos. Finally given up. If he can't "get it" within the first 15 mins of trying he goes in with an incomplete homework assignment and a note telling the teacher that she needs to re-teach the content.

If a lot of the kids in the class are having the same issue, then I would agree, the teacher needs to reteach it.

You probably can't figure it out either because 1. *you* are not used to doing math that way, and are programmed to do it only that one way you were taught and/or 2. you may not be math savvy.

I'm finding that CC math is not just about numbers, but also involves a lot of reading comprehension and deciphering. Perhaps you are weak in that area. Some may say math should only be about numbers, but I would disagree. Most real life math problems involve some reading comprehension.

I don't think kids should be taught math a certain way just so the parents can understand it.

And herein lies the issue. It used to be that some people are stronger in math, and weaker in English. Matter of fact, that's why some students end up in the professions they do - because everyone has strengths and weaknesses. So now you have math requiring, as you put is A LOT of reading comprehension and deciphering. And so you will have a percentage of the class now frustrated and potentially failing mathematics because of this, who would otherwise have thrived. My husband would have been one of those students. Being profoundly dysgraphic and slightly dyslexic, he took pleasure in numbers because he didn't have to use the deficient parts of his brain (why a lot of dysgraphic students have trouble showing their work but come up with the right answers on tests that don't require it. It's not because they don't understand how they got the answer. It's because the physical act of writing takes up so many resources that the part that calculates can't function.)

Needless to say, he's very successful in his chosen field - computer science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a disaster. There are a few outliers on here who are trying to convince everyone that CC makes sense, and that anyone who opposes it is either an idiot or a right-wing nut job....or both I guess.

All I can tell you is that my DS hates it. used to be a happy student, now our nights are filled with tears (from me,mom) because we find ourselves not being able to call upon our knowledge and math skills to solve a simple 6th grade math problem. We have spent hours literally trolling websites for HOW TO videos. Finally given up. If he can't "get it" within the first 15 mins of trying he goes in with an incomplete homework assignment and a note telling the teacher that she needs to re-teach the content.

If a lot of the kids in the class are having the same issue, then I would agree, the teacher needs to reteach it.

You probably can't figure it out either because 1. *you* are not used to doing math that way, and are programmed to do it only that one way you were taught and/or 2. you may not be math savvy.

I'm finding that CC math is not just about numbers, but also involves a lot of reading comprehension and deciphering. Perhaps you are weak in that area. Some may say math should only be about numbers, but I would disagree. Most real life math problems involve some reading comprehension.

I don't think kids should be taught math a certain way just so the parents can understand it.

And herein lies the issue. It used to be that some people are stronger in math, and weaker in English. Matter of fact, that's why some students end up in the professions they do - because everyone has strengths and weaknesses. So now you have math requiring, as you put is A LOT of reading comprehension and deciphering. And so you will have a percentage of the class now frustrated and potentially failing mathematics because of this, who would otherwise have thrived. My husband would have been one of those students. Being profoundly dysgraphic and slightly dyslexic, he took pleasure in numbers because he didn't have to use the deficient parts of his brain (why a lot of dysgraphic students have trouble showing their work but come up with the right answers on tests that don't require it. It's not because they don't understand how they got the answer. It's because the physical act of writing takes up so many resources that the part that calculates can't function.)

Needless to say, he's very successful in his chosen field - computer science.

In your husbands' case - there would be accommodations made so he wouldn't have to write so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, a REAL example please - and don't just give us some supposed "Common Core worksheet" from some viral chain email (because those are full of falsehoods) - cite an ACTUAL and SPECIFIC standard from here: http://www.corestandards.org/read-the-standards/

Not the PP you want an example from, but I find it interesting that you are linking to standards and not interested in an example from a worksheet clearly marked Common Core at the bottom. These worksheets ARE examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Good thing Common Core was a grassroots effort from the state and local level.

It really wasn't, otherwise it would not involve the Feds.

Could you please explain this thought further? I don't understand it. The Common Core standards were a state effort, but then the federal government started using them, so they retroactively became not a state effort?

It's not a 'thought'.

From the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/06/18/the-common-cores-fundamental-trouble/

For starters, the misnamed “Common Core State Standards” are not state standards. They’re national standards, created by Gates-funded consultants for the National Governors Association (NGA). They were designed, in part, to circumvent federal restrictions on the adoption of a national curriculum, hence the insertion of the word “state” in the brand name. States were coerced into adopting the Common Core by requirements attached to the federal Race to the Top grants and, later, the No Child Left Behind waivers. (This is one reason many conservative groups opposed to any federal role in education policy oppose the Common Core.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes they are. Otherwise, there would not be such a problem with the testing. My friend in CA actually helped with these tests, is a huge proponent of common core, and had to admit that the state tests were ambiguous and confusing.

Regarding the bolded? That shows me how far removed you are from the individual. If you were using a computer program like Windows that was released leaving your computer unusable and your hard drive corrupted, you would not be so benevolent and say "there's always a transition period". You would be pissed off because you could not use your computer as a result of a faulty product.

In this case, that 'transition period' is messing with children and their education. You don't work out major bugs in a system on such a large population. There is a reason why vaccines and new drugs, for example, have a trial/test period (and the participants are often paid) on a limited subset of the population before implemented nationwide. It keeps damage to a minimum.

But educational reform is not comparable to software releases or vaccine trials.

In an ideal world, would the implementation of the Common Core standards have been less rushed? Probably. But we don't live in an ideal world. To say that there should have been a trial/test period and so on is basically to say that the Common Core standards should have gone straight from development to dustbin. (And yes, many people actually are saying that. I don't know if you are one of them. I am not one of them.)

You've just cemented my point, that education reform to you is about control. Anyone who really wants to improve education would not take your position.

You need to explain to me, in detail, why educational reform could not be tested in a limited environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

And a student who gets the the standard algorithm correct but does not get the test question that involves deconstructing a number is then deemed not understanding mathematics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a disaster. There are a few outliers on here who are trying to convince everyone that CC makes sense, and that anyone who opposes it is either an idiot or a right-wing nut job....or both I guess.

All I can tell you is that my DS hates it. used to be a happy student, now our nights are filled with tears (from me,mom) because we find ourselves not being able to call upon our knowledge and math skills to solve a simple 6th grade math problem. We have spent hours literally trolling websites for HOW TO videos. Finally given up. If he can't "get it" within the first 15 mins of trying he goes in with an incomplete homework assignment and a note telling the teacher that she needs to re-teach the content.

If a lot of the kids in the class are having the same issue, then I would agree, the teacher needs to reteach it.

You probably can't figure it out either because 1. *you* are not used to doing math that way, and are programmed to do it only that one way you were taught and/or 2. you may not be math savvy.

I'm finding that CC math is not just about numbers, but also involves a lot of reading comprehension and deciphering. Perhaps you are weak in that area. Some may say math should only be about numbers, but I would disagree. Most real life math problems involve some reading comprehension.

I don't think kids should be taught math a certain way just so the parents can understand it.

And herein lies the issue. It used to be that some people are stronger in math, and weaker in English. Matter of fact, that's why some students end up in the professions they do - because everyone has strengths and weaknesses. So now you have math requiring, as you put is A LOT of reading comprehension and deciphering. And so you will have a percentage of the class now frustrated and potentially failing mathematics because of this, who would otherwise have thrived. My husband would have been one of those students. Being profoundly dysgraphic and slightly dyslexic, he took pleasure in numbers because he didn't have to use the deficient parts of his brain (why a lot of dysgraphic students have trouble showing their work but come up with the right answers on tests that don't require it. It's not because they don't understand how they got the answer. It's because the physical act of writing takes up so many resources that the part that calculates can't function.)

Needless to say, he's very successful in his chosen field - computer science.

In your husbands' case - there would be accommodations made so he wouldn't have to write so much.

I don't think you understand dysgraphic dysfunction. It's not about 'writing so much'. It's about how the physical act of writing takes up so much brain power that the individual can't devote enough brain power to getting the answer. My son's IQ dropped 40 points in the testing to see if he was indeed dysgraphic. Think about that for a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

[Anonymous]

I notice after the WaPo article was posted, crickets ensued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

And a student who gets the the standard algorithm correct but does not get the test question that involves deconstructing a number is then deemed not understanding mathematics?

I don't think the standardized tests work that way: pass or fail just cause you can't do one type of math problem. That's no different to any standardized math test, like the SATs. Either you don't seem to understand how the CC math standards work, or you are just purposely trying to be awkward and nitpick.

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

But can meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.8 standard if the kid can quickly use the algorithm method to add.
"Mentally add 10 or 100 to a given number 100-900, and mentally subtract 10 or 100 from a given number 100-900."

[Anonymous]

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

This would be funny if it weren't so sad........They just don't get that these are not useful to a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

And a student who gets the the standard algorithm correct but does not get the test question that involves deconstructing a number is then deemed not understanding mathematics?

I don't think the standardized tests work that way: pass or fail just cause you can't do one type of math problem. That's no different to any standardized math test, like the SATs. Either you don't seem to understand how the CC math standards work, or you are just purposely trying to be awkward and nitpick.

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

But can meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.8 standard if the kid can quickly use the algorithm method to add.
"Mentally add 10 or 100 to a given number 100-900, and mentally subtract 10 or 100 from a given number 100-900."

So if they can meet one math standard and not the other, how does that impact the child? Clearly, example A would be marked correct (the standard algorithm) but example B would be marked wrong. Are you saying a student can meet A standard or B standard and it doesn't really matter if they meet A AND B?

Are you the same poster who insisted CC was a state grassroots thing? Clearly, the WaPo article shows otherwise.