Teachers, parents souring on Common Core across U.S.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

And a student who gets the the standard algorithm correct but does not get the test question that involves deconstructing a number is then deemed not understanding mathematics?

I don't think the standardized tests work that way: pass or fail just cause you can't do one type of math problem. That's no different to any standardized math test, like the SATs. Either you don't seem to understand how the CC math standards work, or you are just purposely trying to be awkward and nitpick.

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

But can meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.8 standard if the kid can quickly use the algorithm method to add.
"Mentally add 10 or 100 to a given number 100-900, and mentally subtract 10 or 100 from a given number 100-900."

So if they can meet one math standard and not the other, how does that impact the child? Clearly, example A would be marked correct (the standard algorithm) but example B would be marked wrong. Are you saying a student can meet A standard or B standard and it doesn't really matter if they meet A AND B?

Are you the same poster who insisted CC was a state grassroots thing? Clearly, the WaPo article shows otherwise.

I'm not that poster.

Have you ever read the CC standards? In 2nd grade, there are 4 sections to the math standards. Within each section, there are several individual standards. The example I provided are under the "Number and Operations in Base 10". Under this section, there are 9 other standards.

In MCPS, the report cards are broken down into detailed categories. So under math, you would have several other categories. It's entirely possible that a kid can get a passing in one category, and not passing or I (in progress) or N (no progress) in another math category.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to answer my own question, regarding what happens to a child who doesn't meet every standard for their grade level: They are flagged for intervention. Beyond this

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/28_02/28_02_karp.shtml

An interesting excerpt:

The tests are on track to squeeze out whatever positive potential exists in the Common Core:

The arrival of the tests will pre-empt the already too short period teachers and schools have to review the standards and develop appropriate curriculum responses before that space is filled by the assessments themselves. Instead of reversing the mania for over-testing, the new assessments will extend it with pre-tests, interim tests, post-tests, and computer-based “performance assessments.” It's the difference between giving a patient a blood test and draining the patient's blood.

The scores will be plugged into data systems that will generate value-added measures, student growth percentiles, and other imaginary numbers for what I call psychometric astrology. The inaccurate and unreliable practice of using test scores for teacher evaluation will distort the assessments before they're even in place, and has the potential to make Common Core implementation part of the assault on the teaching profession instead of a renewal of it.

If the Common Core's college- and career-ready performance levels become the standard for high school graduation, it will push more kids out of high school than it will prepare for college. The most vulnerable students will be the most at risk. As FairTest put it: “If a child struggles to clear the high bar at 5 feet, she will not become a ‘world-class’ jumper because someone raised the bar to 6 feet and yelled ‘jump higher,’ or if her ‘poor’ performance is used to punish her coach.”

The costs of the tests, which have multiple pieces throughout the year and must be given on computers many schools don't have, will be enormous and will come at the expense of more important things. The plunging scores will be used as an excuse to close more public schools and open more privatized charters and voucher schools, especially in poor communities of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CC sucks monkey ass and anyone who doesn't think so is clearly not trying to help 11 year olds with math while not being allowed to explain about "carrying" and "borrowing"

Who is telling your 11 year old child she can't use the standard algorithm to add and subtract?

That's an explicit 4th grade standard.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.4.NBT.B.4
Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

A 5th grade standards is to fluently multiply and divide multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. So if teachers are telling your child not to use the standard algorithms, that's not on Common Core.

+1 In MCPS, kids learn several different ways to add multi digit numbers. One way, is using the standard algorithm of carrying. I think DC learned this in 3rd grade. DC is in 4th now, and the kids can use this method when doing math.

How will they be tested?

I don't understand your question. Are you asking what standardized test they will be using? In MCPS, it will be PARCC this year. Also, they use the MAP-M test. Are you asking whether they are tested using the standard algorithm? I have not seen the tests, but they are all multiple choice, from what I understand. I would imagine the tests would include using the standard algorithm as well understanding how to deconstruct a number.

And a student who gets the the standard algorithm correct but does not get the test question that involves deconstructing a number is then deemed not understanding mathematics?

I don't think the standardized tests work that way: pass or fail just cause you can't do one type of math problem. That's no different to any standardized math test, like the SATs. Either you don't seem to understand how the CC math standards work, or you are just purposely trying to be awkward and nitpick.

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

But can meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.8 standard if the kid can quickly use the algorithm method to add.
"Mentally add 10 or 100 to a given number 100-900, and mentally subtract 10 or 100 from a given number 100-900."

So if they can meet one math standard and not the other, how does that impact the child? Clearly, example A would be marked correct (the standard algorithm) but example B would be marked wrong. Are you saying a student can meet A standard or B standard and it doesn't really matter if they meet A AND B?

Are you the same poster who insisted CC was a state grassroots thing? Clearly, the WaPo article shows otherwise.

I'm not that poster.

Have you ever read the CC standards? In 2nd grade, there are 4 sections to the math standards. Within each section, there are several individual standards. The example I provided are under the "Number and Operations in Base 10". Under this section, there are 9 other standards.

In MCPS, the report cards are broken down into detailed categories. So under math, you would have several other categories. It's entirely possible that a kid can get a passing in one category, and not passing or I (in progress) or N (no progress) in another math category.

Yes, I have read them. I am asking how it impacts the child, i.e. is the child flagged for 'intervention'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

This would be funny if it weren't so sad........They just don't get that these are not useful to a teacher.

They get it - they don't care.

[Anonymous]

Gosh. What a waste of good money. Money that could be used to hire more teachers and just let the teachers teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

Sure but that hasn't changed for us under Common Core.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a disaster. There are a few outliers on here who are trying to convince everyone that CC makes sense, and that anyone who opposes it is either an idiot or a right-wing nut job....or both I guess.

All I can tell you is that my DS hates it. used to be a happy student, now our nights are filled with tears (from me,mom) because we find ourselves not being able to call upon our knowledge and math skills to solve a simple 6th grade math problem. We have spent hours literally trolling websites for HOW TO videos. Finally given up. If he can't "get it" within the first 15 mins of trying he goes in with an incomplete homework assignment and a note telling the teacher that she needs to re-teach the content.

If a lot of the kids in the class are having the same issue, then I would agree, the teacher needs to reteach it.

You probably can't figure it out either because 1. *you* are not used to doing math that way, and are programmed to do it only that one way you were taught and/or 2. you may not be math savvy.

I'm finding that CC math is not just about numbers, but also involves a lot of reading comprehension and deciphering. Perhaps you are weak in that area. Some may say math should only be about numbers, but I would disagree. Most real life math problems involve some reading comprehension.

I don't think kids should be taught math a certain way just so the parents can understand it.

And herein lies the issue. It used to be that some people are stronger in math, and weaker in English. Matter of fact, that's why some students end up in the professions they do - because everyone has strengths and weaknesses. So now you have math requiring, as you put is A LOT of reading comprehension and deciphering. And so you will have a percentage of the class now frustrated and potentially failing mathematics because of this, who would otherwise have thrived. My husband would have been one of those students. Being profoundly dysgraphic and slightly dyslexic, he took pleasure in numbers because he didn't have to use the deficient parts of his brain (why a lot of dysgraphic students have trouble showing their work but come up with the right answers on tests that don't require it. It's not because they don't understand how they got the answer. It's because the physical act of writing takes up so many resources that the part that calculates can't function.)

Needless to say, he's very successful in his chosen field - computer science.

In your husbands' case - there would be accommodations made so he wouldn't have to write so much.

I don't think you understand dysgraphic dysfunction. It's not about 'writing so much'. It's about how the physical act of writing takes up so much brain power that the individual can't devote enough brain power to getting the answer. My son's IQ dropped 40 points in the testing to see if he was indeed dysgraphic. Think about that for a bit.

whether I understand the disability or not - accommodations would be made with that kind of diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I have read them. I am asking how it impacts the child, i.e. is the child flagged for 'intervention'?

The teacher should realize that the child needs more help in that area. But, it doesn't mean that the child will not progress to the next grade level. This is no different than pre CC. If a child could do addition, let's say, but had a hard time with subtraction, it doesn't mean that child will flunk math. It just means that kid needs to work on that area more, in school and at home. Again, no different than pre cc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In 2nd grade, if the kid has a hard time decomposing, then the kid would not meet the CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7 standard
"Add and subtract within 1000, using concrete models or drawings and strategies based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; relate the strategy to a written method. Understand that in adding or subtracting three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to compose or decompose tens or hundreds."

This would be funny if it weren't so sad........They just don't get that these are not useful to a teacher.

They get it - they don't care.

Why are they not useful for teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

Sure but that hasn't changed for us under Common Core.

It hasn't? Then why are children coming home telling their parents their teachers are telling them they cannot ask for homework help from parents?

[Anonymous]

Why are they not useful for teachers?

They waste the teacher's time. They waste the student's time. They are vague and confusing in some cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

Sure but that hasn't changed for us under Common Core.

It hasn't? Then why are children coming home telling their parents their teachers are telling them they cannot ask for homework help from parents?

That hasn't happened at our school. In fact my daughter's teacher emailed me to let me know something I could work on with her at home. I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, I have read them. I am asking how it impacts the child, i.e. is the child flagged for 'intervention'?

The teacher should realize that the child needs more help in that area. But, it doesn't mean that the child will not progress to the next grade level. This is no different than pre CC. If a child could do addition, let's say, but had a hard time with subtraction, it doesn't mean that child will flunk math. It just means that kid needs to work on that area more, in school and at home. Again, no different than pre cc.

Then common core changes nothing for the student, but lines the pockets of those creating the materials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

Sure but that hasn't changed for us under Common Core.

It hasn't? Then why are children coming home telling their parents their teachers are telling them they cannot ask for homework help from parents?

That hasn't happened at our school. In fact my daughter's teacher emailed me to let me know something I could work on with her at home. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I've had family members in northern states report their kids have said that parents aren't allowed to help with homework because 'they won't understand it'. My guess is they don't want the complaints and want to keep parents in the dark.

In addition, there are numerous articles about parents not being able to help their kids due to the common core changes. Look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22What-Parents-Rail-Against-Common-Core-Math-259363861.html

Here you go.

OK, I read the article. The article is about parents who have problems with math that school districts call Common Core math. There is no reference in that article to even one single Common Core math standard. Here again is a link to the Common Core math standards:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/

(I am not the PP who previously linked to the Common Core standards.)

OMFG, I knew you were going here, even while I was reading the article.

How did I know that? Because Common Core is about ultimately control, about taking power away from the parents in order to gain control over students. A true educator would care if parents were experiencing issues when their children came to them for help with basic mathematics. An educator who wants parents to 'butt out' (and I'm being nice) of their child's education would respond EXACTLY as you have.

huh?

Let's make this simple for you. Parents should be an active part of their child's education, including helping them with homework when the child asks - agree or disagree?

Sure but that hasn't changed for us under Common Core.

It hasn't? Then why are children coming home telling their parents their teachers are telling them they cannot ask for homework help from parents?

That hasn't happened at our school. In fact my daughter's teacher emailed me to let me know something I could work on with her at home. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I've had family members in northern states report their kids have said that parents aren't allowed to help with homework because 'they won't understand it'. My guess is they don't want the complaints and want to keep parents in the dark.

In addition, there are numerous articles about parents not being able to help their kids due to the common core changes. Look it up.

not our experience and frankly I don't give a shit - I'll help as I see fit.