MCPS-Big fail!

[Anonymous]

For those parents supplementing at home because you feel MCPS is not doing its job.. what are you supplementing, math only? Writing? What exactly is MCPS not teaching your kid that you teach them at home?

For me, DC#1 is 4th and DC#2 is in 1st grade.

DC#1 has learned from MCPS in previous years:
- multiplication math facts up to 12
- cursive
- addition and subtraction the "old" way (borrowing/carrying) as well as other methods taught under 2.0 math

DC#2 is going to be learning how to read an analog clock. While this is not necessary in these times, I think it helps with math, ie, fractions, counting by 5's, 10's, etc.

Both DCs are reading about 2 yrs above grade level. Both DCs have learned to read math word problems and figure out the answer. I see some of their assignments, and while it is different from what I am used to, I see that it teaches them to think, and not just do worksheet after worksheet of 2+2, 2+3, 4+2, etc..

I supplement at bit at home because I feel like the class sizes are too big (26+ kids), and I know it's nearly impossible for the teacher to give my DC individualized attention for more than 5 min. a day. I work with my DCs on a few math tricks I use to do math quickly in my head.

But, for the most part, I think MCPS has been educating my kids. DC#1 is on track to take Algebra in 7th grade. That's pretty advanced to me.

What are they missing? I don't think it's necessary for such young kids to have test after tests in class to see if my kids are learning. I see that in the class and HW they bring home.

It seems to me, from what I have read on this forum, that may parents are unhappy about the lack of communication between the teacher and the parent. Some parents aren't seeing HW, tests, etc.. brought home. But some parents are. Some kids are not learning multiplication math facts, or having enough comments written on assignments. Some parents are unhappy because the kid seems to be really good at some subject, usually math, but gets a P in the report card. So, the parents don't understand the grading system or how their kids are doing.

Some teachers just suck and some are great. That's not going to change by getting rid of 2.0. Maybe the crappy teachers are more magnified because of the new curriculum. If they are crappy teachers to begin with, throw in a new curriculum with little prep time, and you get an even crappier teacher.

These issues are not largely due to 2.0, but a teacher communication issue, a lack of uniformity (or standards) in the lesson plans, and MCPS' grading rubric.

I'm still not clear based on this thread what it is exactly that some parents see lacking in their kids' education. Another PP asked for something similar, for people who are complaining about it, to state what grades their kids are in, what do they think is missing, etc.... But the only responses I have seen are the same thing: "It sucks, so I'm supplementing at home, keeping quiet, etc.."

Unless someone gives some concrete reason why MCPS is failing, I can only assume that people who are complaining just want more individualized attention to their children (which can't happen in a big public school) and want their kids to be able to jump several math and reading levels because they think that means the kid is smarter and will be able to "compete" globally" (which it doesn't).

Someone tell me something different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is in 4th grade at a well regarded "W" cluster school. We are very concerned about the lack of instruction in many subjects but reading, writing and spelling in particular. I recall learning more (and more being demanded of me) back in the 70's in a school that many on here would consider quite undesireable (not a MoCo school). We cannot really afford private, we do whatever we can to supplement, but are very concerned about the education our DC is/is not receiving. I guess MCPS is not all it is cracked up to be-very dissapointed. Also wondering what others are thinking/doing to remedy this issue?

OP - I don't know about you, but I can barely remember what I learned in ES back in the 70's, especially before 5th grade. Perhaps you are remembering your early ES experience a bit differently than what it was actually like. I know I learned multiplication tables, but I'm a bit fuzzy on what grade I learned that in. IDK. Maybe I'm a bit older than you. I'm in my mid 40's.

I do know that some of the math my 4th grader DC is learning, specifically the word problems, would've been quite challenging for most 4th graders back in the 70's. Perhaps DC hasn't learned some math subject that I did by 4th grade, but this could be because 2.0 seeks to delve into the math basics for a lot longer than pre 2.0 due too many kids pre 2.0 missing some fundamental math foundations (you can read through some of the archives pre 2.0 on MD forum..I did. It was very interesting).

DC doesn't seem to have spelling tests, but that doesn't really bother me that much. Once the kid hits MS age, almost all assignments are done on the computer, and I don't know if you noticed, but pretty much every software/application underlines misspelled words in red. I myself Google words I can't remember how to spell. In my STEM line of work, spelling well isn't a high priority.

As for reading, 2.0 requires kids to read way more nonfiction books than pre 2.0. I don't know what reading level your 4th grader is in, but mine is something like X. I've seen some of the books my DC has read in class, and it's pretty advanced (and I was a very early and great reader, that much I remember).

I confess, my DC is in compacted math and HGC. So, perhaps that is the difference. I don't know if your's is.

Could your issue be that you think your DC is more advanced than what the teacher thinks?

[Anonymous]

There seems to be a few posts regarding spelling and I am a quite surprised by them. My fifth grader gets a new set of spelling words every two weeks, which she then does various activities on throughout the 14 days. All I can say is thankfully that is my husband's department (I am math/science!) because they are tough. We are now in a school in Gaithersburg and were in a Bethesda school prior. Where are they not teaching spelling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those parents supplementing at home because you feel MCPS is not doing its job.. what are you supplementing, math only? Writing? What exactly is MCPS not teaching your kid that you teach them at home?

I supplement math, writing, and foreign language on a weekly basis. As the kids get older we try to work in supplemental instruction in history and geography, but that is something we currently do much more informally

For writing, MCPS seems to do a decent job at the creative/productive aspects of writing in the younger grades, but I prefer a more systematic and formal approach. At home we do direct instruction in grammar and use a writing program that focuses on narration and copywork. I think this complements the writing done in the classroom and should ideally lead to my kids having a more well-rounded writing style that is both content-rich and technically sound.

In math we focus on fact memorization, mental math, logic, and simple math extension going beyond what's offered in class.

I feel that history and geography, which to me go hand in hand as very closely related subjects that ought to be considered together rather than in isolation, is one of the weakest areas of the US system of K-12 education. There's a tremendous emphasis on reading and STEM, which is great since those subjects are important. But social studies/history seems to fall by the wayside too often for my comfort, and the general level of knowledge of geography I have seen amongst the admittedly small sample of US students I know is terrible. Other than reading Story of the World for history, we don't do a formal curriculum for this yet because we prefer taking heavy advantage of opportunities for hands on learning at home or in the local area and integrating these content areas into our daily lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those parents supplementing at home because you feel MCPS is not doing its job.. what are you supplementing, math only? Writing? What exactly is MCPS not teaching your kid that you teach them at home?

I supplement math, writing, and foreign language on a weekly basis. As the kids get older we try to work in supplemental instruction in history and geography, but that is something we currently do much more informally

For writing, MCPS seems to do a decent job at the creative/productive aspects of writing in the younger grades, but I prefer a more systematic and formal approach. At home we do direct instruction in grammar and use a writing program that focuses on narration and copywork. I think this complements the writing done in the classroom and should ideally lead to my kids having a more well-rounded writing style that is both content-rich and technically sound.

In math we focus on fact memorization, mental math, logic, and simple math extension going beyond what's offered in class.

I feel that history and geography, which to me go hand in hand as very closely related subjects that ought to be considered together rather than in isolation, is one of the weakest areas of the US system of K-12 education. There's a tremendous emphasis on reading and STEM, which is great since those subjects are important. But social studies/history seems to fall by the wayside too often for my comfort, and the general level of knowledge of geography I have seen amongst the admittedly small sample of US students I know is terrible. Other than reading Story of the World for history, we don't do a formal curriculum for this yet because we prefer taking heavy advantage of opportunities for hands on learning at home or in the local area and integrating these content areas into our daily lives.

PP - how old are your kids? Your approach is interesting.

I'm PP you were quoting. I appreciate your honest reply. I agree, education is way more focused now on STEM type subject matters, with all else falling by the wayside. But, if you read most of the MD school related posts, you can see why this is... most people are not interested in well-rounded students. They just want their kids to be in AP calc by 10th grade and be able to write well enough to publish the next Pulitzer.

My DH is from the UK. He tells me that when he was going through school, they stopped teaching history by early HS (maybe even earlier), and that he never learned about 20th century UK history in school (even though they played a major part of it in the West). He was a STEM major, so he took mostly STEM related classes the last few years of his HS. In college, they don't take GenEd classes like we do here. It's all related to the major you are in. We both see benefits of both approaches - well rounded vs. focus on STEM (or whatever your field is).

I think mental math is important, too. I think my DC has done some mental math in class, but as you stated, maybe not enough. But, I think that is in part due to not enough hours in the day to cover everything at a pace that is necessary for a large class.

But, I highly doubt that most people on here who are complaining about 2.0 are complaining because of the lack of geography and history being taught in MCPS ESs.

[Anonymous]

I have not read the whole thread but I have a 4th grader in a "W" cluster ES. I have two observations - I HATE WITH A PASSION "WORDS THEIR WAY", the spelling program employed by the school. The kids study words for the rules they teach, but are tested not on those words, but on similar words using the same rules. My daughter's spelling is awful. I am hoping with reading more advanced books, that will improve.

My second issue is that MCPS is just too big. The needs of the "system" outweigh the students needs. Take, for example, bell times. They are driven by how to most efficiently use the busses, not how much time each school needs to effectively teach. Or how assemblies, or specials or instrument music is scheduled and disrupts class instruction. Plus, the teachers are given mandates, but no freedom to teach to their specific audience. And the BOE has to manage so many different needs of different areas of the county that they cannot possibly effectively make decisions.

I came to MCPS in the early 80s for my last two years of high school from an exceptional, but tiny, public school system in Ohio. I was bored out of my mind for those two years in the MCPS HS that had the highest SAT scores in the system back then. Really, MCPS hasn't improved over those years, only declined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those parents supplementing at home because you feel MCPS is not doing its job.. what are you supplementing, math only? Writing? What exactly is MCPS not teaching your kid that you teach them at home?

For me, DC#1 is 4th and DC#2 is in 1st grade.

DC#1 has learned from MCPS in previous years:
- multiplication math facts up to 12
- cursive
- addition and subtraction the "old" way (borrowing/carrying) as well as other methods taught under 2.0 math

DC#2 is going to be learning how to read an analog clock. While this is not necessary in these times, I think it helps with math, ie, fractions, counting by 5's, 10's, etc.

Both DCs are reading about 2 yrs above grade level. Both DCs have learned to read math word problems and figure out the answer. I see some of their assignments, and while it is different from what I am used to, I see that it teaches them to think, and not just do worksheet after worksheet of 2+2, 2+3, 4+2, etc..

I supplement at bit at home because I feel like the class sizes are too big (26+ kids), and I know it's nearly impossible for the teacher to give my DC individualized attention for more than 5 min. a day. I work with my DCs on a few math tricks I use to do math quickly in my head.

But, for the most part, I think MCPS has been educating my kids. DC#1 is on track to take Algebra in 7th grade. That's pretty advanced to me.

What are they missing? I don't think it's necessary for such young kids to have test after tests in class to see if my kids are learning. I see that in the class and HW they bring home.

It seems to me, from what I have read on this forum, that may parents are unhappy about the lack of communication between the teacher and the parent. Some parents aren't seeing HW, tests, etc.. brought home. But some parents are. Some kids are not learning multiplication math facts, or having enough comments written on assignments. Some parents are unhappy because the kid seems to be really good at some subject, usually math, but gets a P in the report card. So, the parents don't understand the grading system or how their kids are doing.

Some teachers just suck and some are great. That's not going to change by getting rid of 2.0. Maybe the crappy teachers are more magnified because of the new curriculum. If they are crappy teachers to begin with, throw in a new curriculum with little prep time, and you get an even crappier teacher.

These issues are not largely due to 2.0, but a teacher communication issue, a lack of uniformity (or standards) in the lesson plans, and MCPS' grading rubric.

I'm still not clear based on this thread what it is exactly that some parents see lacking in their kids' education. Another PP asked for something similar, for people who are complaining about it, to state what grades their kids are in, what do they think is missing, etc.... But the only responses I have seen are the same thing: "It sucks, so I'm supplementing at home, keeping quiet, etc.."

Unless someone gives some concrete reason why MCPS is failing, I can only assume that people who are complaining just want more individualized attention to their children (which can't happen in a big public school) and want their kids to be able to jump several math and reading levels because they think that means the kid is smarter and will be able to "compete" globally" (which it doesn't).

Someone tell me something different.

+1

What I do to supplement at home (other than nagging them to do their homework) is drive them to various sports classes and find art and music classes for them to do. That is the part of their education I find lacking at MCPS - the extras and I try to supplement those home.

[Anonymous]

Genuine question here- how do you know what needs to be supplemented at home? Do you use grade level requirements as a guide or so etching else? I'm not in education and have no idea how I will know when and what needs to be supplemented for my child (not in school yet). Or how to even fit it in with homework as we're both working parents.

FWIW, my parents didn't really "supplement" for us, in a formal sense anyway. I was a voracious reader but otherwise after school and summer was for playing outside, practicing musical instruments, etc. Went to a suburban school district that was considered middle-of-the-road in our area. I did well but my younger sister struggled.

[Anonymous]

County OLO report out today says that of the students new to Montgomery College in 2011, 72% needed remediation in math. Given that such a large percentage of MCPS grads enroll in MC, this is extremely troubling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:County OLO report out today says that of the students new to Montgomery College in 2011, 72% needed remediation in math. Given that such a large percentage of MCPS grads enroll in MC, this is extremely troubling.

Between 2001 and 2009, 26% of MCPS graduates went to two-year institutions within the first year of high school. (48% went to four-year institutions.)

http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2012/College%20Enrollment%20Persistence%20and%20Degree%20Attainment%20final.pdf

Almost all of the graduates who went to two-year institutions (though not all) went to Montgomery College, so let's say that 26% went to Montgomery College. Is 26% such a large proportion of MCPS graduates? Is 72% of 26% a large proportion?

[Anonymous]

Or looking at it this way: of all the kids who graduated from MCPS, one in four of them went to MC. So I think that's a pretty big number.
With a HS diploma, none of them should have needed remediation in math in order to take a college math course for credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or looking at it this way: of all the kids who graduated from MCPS, one in four of them went to MC. So I think that's a pretty big number.
With a HS diploma, none of them should have needed remediation in math in order to take a college math course for credit.

can you tell me what you mean by your last statement? "with a HS diploma...". Are you saying that any kid who needed math remediation upon graduation should not have been given a diploma? honestly I am unclear about what you're actually saying. no snarky-ness intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you should move away from Bethesda/Potomac? I read more complaints about Bethesda/Potomac schools on DCUM than about schools anywhere else in MCPS. My children go to unregarded MCPS elementary and middle schools, and I am very happy with the education they've received so far.

Are you highly educated? Bethesda is home to the most highly educated population in the nation; we're very picky about the schools. I'm sure if Bethesdans lived in your cluster, they'd complain too. The curriculum is the same throughout MCPS - we are just more aware of its shortcomings.

I am the pp who annoyed so many with my post about Bethesda. Please read again carefully. Maybe not the best choice of words, but I was responding to a poster who said her schools are fine, maybe the problem is with the Bethesda / Potomac schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those parents supplementing at home because you feel MCPS is not doing its job.. what are you supplementing, math only? Writing? What exactly is MCPS not teaching your kid that you teach them at home?

For me, DC#1 is 4th and DC#2 is in 1st grade.

DC#1 has learned from MCPS in previous years:
- multiplication math facts up to 12
- cursive
- addition and subtraction the "old" way (borrowing/carrying) as well as other methods taught under 2.0 math

DC#2 is going to be learning how to read an analog clock. While this is not necessary in these times, I think it helps with math, ie, fractions, counting by 5's, 10's, etc.

Both DCs are reading about 2 yrs above grade level. Both DCs have learned to read math word problems and figure out the answer. I see some of their assignments, and while it is different from what I am used to, I see that it teaches them to think, and not just do worksheet after worksheet of 2+2, 2+3, 4+2, etc..

I supplement at bit at home because I feel like the class sizes are too big (26+ kids), and I know it's nearly impossible for the teacher to give my DC individualized attention for more than 5 min. a day. I work with my DCs on a few math tricks I use to do math quickly in my head.

But, for the most part, I think MCPS has been educating my kids. DC#1 is on track to take Algebra in 7th grade. That's pretty advanced to me.

What are they missing? I don't think it's necessary for such young kids to have test after tests in class to see if my kids are learning. I see that in the class and HW they bring home.

It seems to me, from what I have read on this forum, that may parents are unhappy about the lack of communication between the teacher and the parent. Some parents aren't seeing HW, tests, etc.. brought home. But some parents are. Some kids are not learning multiplication math facts, or having enough comments written on assignments. Some parents are unhappy because the kid seems to be really good at some subject, usually math, but gets a P in the report card. So, the parents don't understand the grading system or how their kids are doing.

Some teachers just suck and some are great. That's not going to change by getting rid of 2.0. Maybe the crappy teachers are more magnified because of the new curriculum. If they are crappy teachers to begin with, throw in a new curriculum with little prep time, and you get an even crappier teacher.

These issues are not largely due to 2.0, but a teacher communication issue, a lack of uniformity (or standards) in the lesson plans, and MCPS' grading rubric.

I'm still not clear based on this thread what it is exactly that some parents see lacking in their kids' education. Another PP asked for something similar, for people who are complaining about it, to state what grades their kids are in, what do they think is missing, etc.... But the only responses I have seen are the same thing: "It sucks, so I'm supplementing at home, keeping quiet, etc.."

Unless someone gives some concrete reason why MCPS is failing, I can only assume that people who are complaining just want more individualized attention to their children (which can't happen in a big public school) and want their kids to be able to jump several math and reading levels because they think that means the kid is smarter and will be able to "compete" globally" (which it doesn't).

Someone tell me something different.

I would like teachers who spelled properly.
I would like teachers who exhibited a real thirst for knowledge and challenge.
I would like teachers to push my kid, not just settle for "fine."
That's for starters.

[Anonymous]

Given that such a large percentage of MCPS grads enroll in MC, this is extremely troubling.


Do you know what the percentage is?