MCPS-Big fail!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2.0 is supposed to focus more on critical thinking. The jobs in the future will require more critical thinking. Whether the ES kids today actually are better prepared for such jobs of the future is TBD obviously, but learning how to spell words in ES isn't going to help towards critical thinking skills. That's probably why the curriculum isn't focusing so much on spelling. Although, I do find my kids' papers corrected when there are spelling errors.

I'm not saying people shouldn't know how to spell. But every parent is screaming that our schools aren't preparing our kids for the future job market. Here, MCPS is trying something to address this issue by implementing a curriculum that emphasizes these skills, ie critical thinking.

I'm no 2.0 rah rah cheerleader, but people who have this attitude of "the sky is falling" regarding 2.0 and our kids education are a bit paranoid. Of course, as parents we should be concerned with our kids' education, but sometimes I feel like people around here, or especially on this forum, are helicopter parents who think they know better how to educate kids for the future. I would really love to see these parents try to teach 25+ kids in each class with varying abilities and backgrounds and prepare them for the future.

Current and future jobs require way more critical thinking, problem solving skills vs. white collar jobs in the 20th century that was all about sitting at a desk and shuffling paper, or blue color jobs working at a manufacturing plant. This is what the 20th century school curriculum was designed for. Today, we need creative, ingenious, bold, outside the box thinkers. I don't think the old curriculum, which focuses more on rote than critical thinking skills in ES level, helps produce these types of people. Whether 2.0 does so remains to be seen, but certainly the old ways won't.

HS kids today are actually the limbo generation where the curriculum they went through was designed for the 20th century, but the kids are going into a 21st century, technology driven job market. Those people that started the tech revolution may have been educated the old way, but these innovators are few and far between, and I think such people would excel no matter what kind of curriculum they studied under. To generate more such people, we need a curriculum that will foster more critical, outside the box thinking, and we need to start early, like in ES.

2.0 isn't perfect, but it's a start, which hopefully will lead to something better than we had before. 2.0 needs an overhaul. Teachers need to be given better training and more time to develop lesson plans.

BTW - I'm not a teacher or educator. I'm a parent that is just as worried about my kids' futures as every other parent here. What I do know is that the old way of learning in school isn't going to help their future.

This is the most reasonable post here. I agree 100%.

Yes, great post.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Lots of different opinions here. What is considered to be good instruction is subjective. A parent with Ivy League goals and comfort around making kids miserable and stressed will always say instruction is not on par. When you have a moment, compare MoCo's test scores with a few counties in Mississippi or Alabama. Boy, do we forget how good we have it here.

Yeah, this is a great idea. Why look UP when you can look DOWN, right?

I'm sorry. What was I thinking. Elitist and social climbers should never, ever look down. My apologies for making the suggestion.

Wait, I'm an elitist and social climber because I went to an ivy? You're bizarre. I am smart, hardworking, and loved learning. That's why I ended up at an ivy. I want my kids to love learning and learn to their fullest ability. Saying "well, it's ok because there are worse school districts" isn't good enough. That's not elitist (and social climbing is so far off it's funny). You just want us to settle for mediocrity and try to shame people who don't want to.

A very small percentage of kids graduating from MoCo are accepted to Ivys. There's been years at some of the W's where the acceptance rate has been zero, and that's with upwards of 60-70 applicants. So if you're looking for Ivy League preparation, Moco may not be the best fit for your child. It is very reasonable to look at where moco falls overall by looking up, down, around, etc. The county is highly regarded across the country. It may not be up to your standards, but it's pretty darn good.

Again, that's pathetic. My kids may or may not be Ivy material. I don't care. What I expect is that this supposedly good school district teach to their ability levels and encourage their learning. Not just quit challenging them at the minimum bar level.

And you will never be convinced that is not happening. I am completely satisfied with the rigor in my child's classes, and I have a pretty smart kid. Are there classes that are not as stimulating as others? Yes. Is every teacher the best of the best? No. And I can also say that for the two highly regarded colleges I attended. Is the county failing our child while swimming in mediocrity? That has not been our experience.

Ah and because it hasn't been your experience, that means that if it is happening in someone else's experience at another school, that must mean that person is just elitist. Right.

Also, I can say that in my experience, my kids are getting MUCH less individual attention than I did in public school in the 80s. And that they are spending far more of their time just doing mindless busywork. I am seeing far less critical thinking being taught than what I had. I am teaching it at home, when possible, after a full day of work and school when the kids are worn out. I think that accepting this as some kind of improvement is a joke.

Yes! I think it's all relative - it depends on what you've experienced yourself as a student or with your kids if you've moved from a different area. Some places are worse, lots of places are better. I have no idea if the old MOCO did all rote learning and no critical thinking. I'd be surprised if they got their reputation as a good district doing that, but maybe they did.

I also happened to go to a good public school in a different area in the 80s and had far more individual attention than I see in MOCO now. We learned all the basics, did investigations, had writing workshops, science labs with interesting experiments, and did lots of oral presentations, all with very little busywork homework and few worksheets. (And morning and afternoon recess as well as gym, music and art more than 1x/week!). I don't doubt the stated goal of 2.0 is to even further increase things like critical thinking and communications skills our children will need to compete in the future, but the reality of what we are seeing our kids doing at school does not seem well-designed to achieve that goal. I guess time will tell. I agree that 2.0 needs much refinement.

[Anonymous]

I amazed how many people are able to quantify the amount of critical thinking skills they learned when they were in early elementary school. My memories of the early grades are pretty fuzzy. I went to a top notch CT public school. I remember each grade put on a play every year. We had three recesses a day. No homework until 3rd grade. I don't remember critical thinking skills

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I amazed how many people are able to quantify the amount of critical thinking skills they learned when they were in early elementary school. My memories of the early grades are pretty fuzzy. I went to a top notch CT public school. I remember each grade put on a play every year. We had three recesses a day. No homework until 3rd grade. I don't remember critical thinking skills

I think there's a lot of "I turned out fine, so my education must have been good" thinking going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I amazed how many people are able to quantify the amount of critical thinking skills they learned when they were in early elementary school. My memories of the early grades are pretty fuzzy. I went to a top notch CT public school. I remember each grade put on a play every year. We had three recesses a day. No homework until 3rd grade. I don't remember critical thinking skills

I think there's a lot of "I turned out fine, so my education must have been good" thinking going on.

I turned out to be fine, why do we need 2.0?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I amazed how many people are able to quantify the amount of critical thinking skills they learned when they were in early elementary school. My memories of the early grades are pretty fuzzy. I went to a top notch CT public school. I remember each grade put on a play every year. We had three recesses a day. No homework until 3rd grade. I don't remember critical thinking skills

I think there's a lot of "I turned out fine, so my education must have been good" thinking going on.

I turned out to be fine, why do we need 2.0?

Exactly. That is the thinking. The logical flaws in this thinking should be evident.

[Anonymous]

"Critical thinking" in elementary school? C'mon folks, don't you see that this is a red herring? It is virtually impossible to quantify and/or evaluate a child's critical thinking skills at this age. Could this be why the proponents of 2.0 continue to claim that this is the area where 2.0 shines?

I'm skeptical. Under 2.0, the types of things that one can easily judge (spelling, math, etc.) are gutted…but impossible to measure things like "getting a deeper understanding" and "critical thinking" are things were *told* are happening so well. There is no measurement offered to support this theory. Yes, I'm skeptical indeed.

Also, how are we to believe that all of these difficult-to-measure/esoteric ideas like "critical thinking" are taking place in over-crowded classrooms. Again, are we really to believe that all of this unquantified/unsubstantiated higher-order thinking is taking place in classrooms with 30+ children? That's the size of my DD's class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Critical thinking" in elementary school? C'mon folks, don't you see that this is a red herring? It is virtually impossible to quantify and/or evaluate a child's critical thinking skills at this age. Could this be why the proponents of 2.0 continue to claim that this is the area where 2.0 shines?

I'm skeptical. Under 2.0, the types of things that one can easily judge (spelling, math, etc.) are gutted…but impossible to measure things like "getting a deeper understanding" and "critical thinking" are things were *told* are happening so well. There is no measurement offered to support this theory. Yes, I'm skeptical indeed.

Also, how are we to believe that all of these difficult-to-measure/esoteric ideas like "critical thinking" are taking place in over-crowded classrooms. Again, are we really to believe that all of this unquantified/unsubstantiated higher-order thinking is taking place in classrooms with 30+ children? That's the size of my DD's class.

I don't think it's impossible... and just because it's difficult to quantify, doesn't mean it's not occurring. I was teaching my kindergartner how to read an analog clock. We spent about 15 minutes on it and she picked it up fairly quickly. A few minutes later she noticed the large decor clock that was behind the bar that was all in roman numerals and asked if V was 5 and I was 1. I think that's an example of the out of the box thinking they are trying to instill.

How do you teach that kind thinking? I have no idea...especially not to an entire class of kids on different levels. But I think they are trying to head in the right direction. I think a lot of the push back comes from the fact that people fear change and projects of this magnitude rarely launch without issues. So the stumbling blocks become that much more visible with all the detractors pointing out every flaw in the system. I'm glad my daughter loves school but we will continue to enrich at home just because she enjoys it so much. This summer we learned a secret written language called cursive! If you don't let them know they're learning, they'll never want to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Critical thinking" in elementary school? C'mon folks, don't you see that this is a red herring? It is virtually impossible to quantify and/or evaluate a child's critical thinking skills at this age. Could this be why the proponents of 2.0 continue to claim that this is the area where 2.0 shines?

I'm skeptical. Under 2.0, the types of things that one can easily judge (spelling, math, etc.) are gutted…but impossible to measure things like "getting a deeper understanding" and "critical thinking" are things were *told* are happening so well. There is no measurement offered to support this theory. Yes, I'm skeptical indeed.

Also, how are we to believe that all of these difficult-to-measure/esoteric ideas like "critical thinking" are taking place in over-crowded classrooms. Again, are we really to believe that all of this unquantified/unsubstantiated higher-order thinking is taking place in classrooms with 30+ children? That's the size of my DD's class.

I don't think that they're impossible to measure. They're certainly not impossible to observe. And even if they were impossible to measure, so what? Do we only do things we can measure? Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. (I did not make up this saying.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps you should move away from Bethesda/Potomac? I read more complaints about Bethesda/Potomac schools on DCUM than about schools anywhere else in MCPS. My children go to unregarded MCPS elementary and middle schools, and I am very happy with the education they've received so far.

Are you highly educated? Bethesda is home to the most highly educated population in the nation; we're very picky about the schools. I'm sure if Bethesdans lived in your cluster, they'd complain too. The curriculum is the same throughout MCPS - we are just more aware of its shortcomings.

+++

[Anonymous]

we are just more aware of its shortcomings

Talk about a generalization! Is it only Bethesdans that are so superior. Would Chevy Chase and Potomac resdients also be able to acurately judge the school system? I know I am out of the running in Rockville (despite the fact that both DH and I have Phds).

[Anonymous]

Rockville and North Potomac parents are pretty upset about 2.0 too. Its not just Bethesda. The dynamic at our school is much quieter because our principal doesn't like parents anyway. The international, highly educated parents just keep quiet and teach their kids at home, supplement like crazy to replace the missing education, and wonder what Americans are thinking with this crap. The Bethesda moms are only more represented in numbers of parents who are willing to speak publicly against it and don't fear the school system. In may cultures, speaking our politically is not safe. Others are more practical and don't see the point because any change would come after its relevant for their children so why bother. There is widespread contempt and disgust for what MCPS calls a curriculum.

[Anonymous]

And what is your analysis of Silver Spring parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rockville and North Potomac parents are pretty upset about 2.0 too. Its not just Bethesda. The dynamic at our school is much quieter because our principal doesn't like parents anyway. The international, highly educated parents just keep quiet and teach their kids at home, supplement like crazy to replace the missing education, and wonder what Americans are thinking with this crap. The Bethesda moms are only more represented in numbers of parents who are willing to speak publicly against it and don't fear the school system. In many cultures, speaking our politically is not safe. Others are more practical and don't see the point because any change would come after its relevant for their children so why bother. There is widespread contempt and disgust for what MCPS calls a curriculum.

+ 1

I would add Gaithersburg, Germantown, Damascus parents as well who are pretty upset about 2.0. However, as pointed above we are teaching our kids at home and we are not speaking up because we do not want to go against the school system. We fear the repercussions on our children and we do not have the strength in numbers more affluent schools have.

[Anonymous]

Are you highly educated? Bethesda is home to the most highly educated population in the nation; we're very picky about the schools. I'm sure if Bethesdans lived in your cluster, they'd complain too. The curriculum is the same throughout MCPS - we are just more aware of its shortcomings.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure that Bethesda is the only area with "highly educated" parents. For example, my Silver Spring neighbors are largely PhDs (who work at places like Northup Grumman, Lockheed Martin, FDA, UMD),lawyers, and people with various masters degrees that work in gov't/public policy.

May I ask what your level of education is and what you do?

Also, I grew-up in Bethesda and can say from experience that money does not equal intelligence.