Why isn't MCPS redistricting Rachel Carlson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

I live in a stacked condo and have a child. Not sure why people think that people with kids only live in single family homes. People live in the homes they can afford whether that is a 1 bedroom apartment with 4 people or a luxury mansion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

I live in a stacked condo and have a child. Not sure why people think that people with kids only live in single family homes. People live in the homes they can afford whether that is a 1 bedroom apartment with 4 people or a luxury mansion.

This is where projections in Kentlands/Lakelands went haywire also. The stacked condos here are full of families with kids. We have playgrounds across the street, nearby pool, etc, so while the indoor space is tiny, the outdoor amenities are great. In 2007, RCES was around 800 kids and they kept projecting declines in enrollment, but families kept moving into those small units to drive the numbers up. Except for the school situation, it's been a really good thing... but we really need another school here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that $26 million is a drop in the bucket for any developer in the county.

First of all, a one-off building would cost more than if it was built at the same time as a development. Also, a contracted developer is profiting from the $26MM, while the actual cost is probably a good deal less. Maybe the cost if built along with a development is $12-15MM??

Next, Science City is looking to build 5,750 homes - I can't imagine the average price being less than $500K each? So, on the low end, that's a $3Bn project if my math is correct. Even a $20MM school would be less than 0.1% of the project. A drop in the bucket.

This problem requires some creativity to fix. It's challenging, but not impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

I live in a stacked condo and have a child. Not sure why people think that people with kids only live in single family homes. People live in the homes they can afford whether that is a 1 bedroom apartment with 4 people or a luxury mansion.

Do you live in Crown though?

Stacked condos in a good cluster will fill with some kids, but when you have expensive, small condos in poorly performing clusters, there's little incentive for a family to buy there. Once again, in this price range, someone can buy more space in a better school district. The only reason to buy in Crown is if you don't have kids and therefore don't care about cluster assignments, or plan to go private anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next, Science City is looking to build 5,750 homes - I can't imagine the average price being less than $500K each?

Science City will be mostly apartments and condos.

[Anonymous]

I found this so confusing! DD's teacher's name is Rachel Carlson!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

I can't speak to whether Crown really will be filled with empty nesters and other childless people (although if you google Crown, realtors tout the school district as a benefit), but somewhere else on DCUM someone noted that the developments at Park Potomac (similar price range) was also pitched as a place for rich childless people and in fact it ended up that families (sometimes more than one per unit) were flocking to Park Potomac and threw off the projections. I'd love to see any studies that support that assertion, especially since Park Potomac looks to be expanding dramatically (I think this is JW and RM, no?)

This is also relevant to the proposed Westbard redevelopment. Developer plans there also claim that the target will be empty nesters and single people, but I can guarantee that, in an area where the median house price is $1M or more, plenty of families will opt to buy/rent in Westbard if they build high density residences there. For MCPS to blindly accept these developer claims (which coincidentally support the idea that no new investment in schools would be required as a result of their developments) is foolish. In the case of Westbard, the receiving ES, Wood Acres, is already 145% overcapacity and will remain overcapacity after the addition, so something other than, "we'll figure it out later," is required.

You do all realize that when the developers CLAIM it will be all singles and empty nesters, the projections look lower, hence green light to build and no need for a school. Win Win for developer. Then they are long gone when the realization comes that they were wrong. The assumption that families or single parent families do not live in condos, apartments, townhouses is ridiculous. Whoever in the county follows this - is truly messing it up. My guess is it is political and the developer's money goes towards campaigns and not the schools.

And if you all think 26Mil is too much for the Crown Developer, you are insane. That is chump change. Honestly. And it wouldn't cost 26M to them. They would do it at cost which would be 10Mil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

Someone had to tell you HOW to send your kid to private? What does that even mean? I guess you mean he suggested private rather than the cluster.
Anyway, I'd argue that even people spending that much on a home may not be able to afford private because they stretched to afford that home. Although honestly I hope you are right, that they go private so as not to overburden the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

I can't speak to whether Crown really will be filled with empty nesters and other childless people (although if you google Crown, realtors tout the school district as a benefit), but somewhere else on DCUM someone noted that the developments at Park Potomac (similar price range) was also pitched as a place for rich childless people and in fact it ended up that families (sometimes more than one per unit) were flocking to Park Potomac and threw off the projections. I'd love to see any studies that support that assertion, especially since Park Potomac looks to be expanding dramatically (I think this is JW and RM, no?)


It looks like lots of Asians are buying in Crown, so while schools may become more crowded, they will likely become bettter rated schools. I think Crown is zoned to Gaithersburg-a school that can sure use a boost.

This is also relevant to the proposed Westbard redevelopment. Developer plans there also claim that the target will be empty nesters and single people, but I can guarantee that, in an area where the median house price is $1M or more, plenty of families will opt to buy/rent in Westbard if they build high density residences there. For MCPS to blindly accept these developer claims (which coincidentally support the idea that no new investment in schools would be required as a result of their developments) is foolish. In the case of Westbard, the receiving ES, Wood Acres, is already 145% overcapacity and will remain overcapacity after the addition, so something other than, "we'll figure it out later," is required.

You do all realize that when the developers CLAIM it will be all singles and empty nesters, the projections look lower, hence green light to build and no need for a school. Win Win for developer. Then they are long gone when the realization comes that they were wrong. The assumption that families or single parent families do not live in condos, apartments, townhouses is ridiculous. Whoever in the county follows this - is truly messing it up. My guess is it is political and the developer's money goes towards campaigns and not the schools.

And if you all think 26Mil is too much for the Crown Developer, you are insane. That is chump change. Honestly. And it wouldn't cost 26M to them. They would do it at cost which would be 10Mil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

Someone had to tell you HOW to send your kid to private? What does that even mean? I guess you mean he suggested private rather than the cluster.
Anyway, I'd argue that even people spending that much on a home may not be able to afford private because they stretched to afford that home. Although honestly I hope you are right, that they go private so as not to overburden the schools.

Are all the far flung Laytonnsville and Goshen kids in the million plus homes going private as well? Seems stupid to flee a school, perhaps if they stuck it out it would get better.

[Anonymous]

Looks like the lots of Asians are buying in Crown-their kids will do well regardless of the school they attend-hopefully they will improve the stats at Gaithersburg. There is a ton of new development feeding into that cluster. The Elementary schools feeding into the HS are not that bad at all. They also rennovated the entire school and it is really nice. Maybe they have plans to improve the student body/school as it is a great area with a very easy commute to almost anywhere-DC, Bethesda, SS, Frederick, Germantown, Kentlands-it is centrally located so makes it easy to go just about anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And if you all think 26Mil is too much for the Crown Developer, you are insane. That is chump change. Honestly. And it wouldn't cost 26M to them. They would do it at cost which would be 10Mil.

Are you a developer? If so, please explain how you came up with those numbers. Also please explain what prices you will increase, and by how much, to offset the cost of the school.

If you're not a developer...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

No, but people buying residences in the $500,000-$600,000 price range might, and that's the majority of the units.

The only residences in that price range are the stacked condos and, perhaps, the very narrow Pulte townhomes (with no upgrades). Practically speaking, the foregoing units are not for people with kids - in fact, the Pulte rep told me their target demographic are 20 something first time buyers who want a starter home before they have kids. If someone has kids and can only afford this price range, they are not going to buy at Crown - they can just get more space for the same price (and a better school district) in Fallsgrove.

Everybody in the county needs to stop believing that people with children won't live in apartments, one-story condos, multi-story condos, or townhouses. The established, proven fact is that people with children do live in those types of housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

I talked recently to a mom who lives in Crown, and I got the sense that there was some kind of bait and switch that happened at some point - either new schools were supposed to be built, or the zoning was originally to somewhere else. Needless to say, she was very displeased to end up zoned for Gaithersburg High.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And sorry but yes, they should be building a school NOW for the Crown development. There are homes that are moved in, sold and for sale, more being built and it isn't like single couples deciding to have kids in 5yrs are the only ones moving in. Kids are already living there. By next year school year, 70% of the homes projected to be built will be lived in or sold. It takes 5yrs minimum to plan and build a school. They haven't even started planning. So what is going to happen to those surrounding schools? Over capacity, portables, awful lunch times, no room for recess. Then another round of studying for redistricting etc... It is never ending and never done right.

Very few purchasers at Crown plan to send their kids to MCPS. It's a very expensive development zoned for GBurg. One of the builders (I won't name them) came out and told me about how I can send my kid to private from there - they aren't stupid. People buying homes in the 800k to 1.2M price range aren't sending them to the GBurg cluster.

I talked recently to a mom who lives in Crown, and I got the sense that there was some kind of bait and switch that happened at some point - either new schools were supposed to be built, or the zoning was originally to somewhere else. Needless to say, she was very displeased to end up zoned for Gaithersburg High.

Not bait and switch; misleading advertisement. The developer is doing that at Cabin Branch in Clarksburg, too -- advertising that there will be an elementary school, right there in the neighborhood!!!!!! Which there will be, in 10-15 years, maybe.