Who or What really has a Soul?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Deja vu and lying can not explain thousands of NDE experiences. Telepathy, which NDE'ers say they had, still can not explain how blind people "see" when having a NDE. The fact that wrongdoers sometimes have terrifying NDE experiences in what they describe as hell lends credence to the concept of a God that follows through with his promise to punish wrongdoers.

Depending on when a person loses their vision they are able to see in dreams. It's only people who are blind from birth or become blind very young that never have visual dreams. They do however have a perception of light. Also, blind people do see with their hands and other senses. Meaning they are perfectly capable of understanding shapes, textures, sizes, etc. by touch. They however have no understanding of things like color. Almost all blind NDE reports do not include color descriptions. The reason being no other senses can perceive color and so they do not experience colors during an NDE.

The no colors during an NDE is perplexing. One would think that during an NDE if your vision is functioning it would be fully functioning. Which leads one to believe that images described by a blind person during an NDE are merely descriptions of how they perceive things visually with their other senses. It would be like asking a blind person to describe a box. They would be able to give a visually detailed description of it's size, shape, texture, etc. But if you asked them what color it was, they would not be able to describe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AfJbXe3rc
There aren't many youtube links of blind people who had NDE's. However, here is one of a man born blind and who had a NDE and saw visuals of snow and a tram without ever having heard a tram or touched either. There is also the famous case of Vicky Umipeg, the woman who was born blind and was clinically dead for 4 minutes. She reported that her visuals during her NDE were not in color. However, many blind people who had NDE's never dreamed images before in their life. Suddenly in a NDE, they have visuals. While many people who experienced NDE said it was a very loving and positive experience, seeing during a NDE was a horrifying and frightening experience for a blind person like Vicky. Kenneth Ring, who has researched NDE's for 20 yrs said many blind people report disorientation during their NDE's initially, and needing time to adjust to the images they see. We know that many people report experiencing heightened sensory awareness during NDEs. Colors are reported to be shocking and extremely vivid but beautiful.We can surmise that such a vivid vision could be extremely upsetting to someone who has never before known color, not even the color black. It may be that if they had lengthier NDEs, their eyes would slowly adjust to seeing color. Their NDEs are otherwise the same as others.

The man in the video describes very vague images, squares and tracks. Trams aren't square there rectangle. He doesn't give any detailed descriptions. He also mixes snow on the ground with lush green grass. So there is no way he was describing a scene he actually saw while floating above the roof. And finally, he still admits he has no concept of color.

Listen to him again several times. His description was not vague, the tram itself was very nondescript and he said this twice. He described the tram as square. You said thats not true because trams are rectangular. It all depends on what angle you are looking at it. From the front its square. From the side, however, its rectangular.

He never mixes snow on the ground with green grass so he's not confused. He describes two separate scenes. One is right after he floated through the roof, he said, and thats where he saw snow and the tram. The second is a description of heaven presumably, and here he describes the grass as the greenest grass you'll ever see. Contrast the boring nondescript tram with the brilliant green hue of grass, and you realize he's talking about heaven in the latter case.

He saw the tram from above looking down at it. There's no way his angle would of been where he could only see the front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Deja vu and lying can not explain thousands of NDE experiences. Telepathy, which NDE'ers say they had, still can not explain how blind people "see" when having a NDE. The fact that wrongdoers sometimes have terrifying NDE experiences in what they describe as hell lends credence to the concept of a God that follows through with his promise to punish wrongdoers.

Depending on when a person loses their vision they are able to see in dreams. It's only people who are blind from birth or become blind very young that never have visual dreams. They do however have a perception of light. Also, blind people do see with their hands and other senses. Meaning they are perfectly capable of understanding shapes, textures, sizes, etc. by touch. They however have no understanding of things like color. Almost all blind NDE reports do not include color descriptions. The reason being no other senses can perceive color and so they do not experience colors during an NDE.

The no colors during an NDE is perplexing. One would think that during an NDE if your vision is functioning it would be fully functioning. Which leads one to believe that images described by a blind person during an NDE are merely descriptions of how they perceive things visually with their other senses. It would be like asking a blind person to describe a box. They would be able to give a visually detailed description of it's size, shape, texture, etc. But if you asked them what color it was, they would not be able to describe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AfJbXe3rc
There aren't many youtube links of blind people who had NDE's. However, here is one of a man born blind and who had a NDE and saw visuals of snow and a tram without ever having heard a tram or touched either. There is also the famous case of Vicky Umipeg, the woman who was born blind and was clinically dead for 4 minutes. She reported that her visuals during her NDE were not in color. However, many blind people who had NDE's never dreamed images before in their life. Suddenly in a NDE, they have visuals. While many people who experienced NDE said it was a very loving and positive experience, seeing during a NDE was a horrifying and frightening experience for a blind person like Vicky. Kenneth Ring, who has researched NDE's for 20 yrs said many blind people report disorientation during their NDE's initially, and needing time to adjust to the images they see. We know that many people report experiencing heightened sensory awareness during NDEs. Colors are reported to be shocking and extremely vivid but beautiful.We can surmise that such a vivid vision could be extremely upsetting to someone who has never before known color, not even the color black. It may be that if they had lengthier NDEs, their eyes would slowly adjust to seeing color. Their NDEs are otherwise the same as others.

The man in the video describes very vague images, squares and tracks. Trams aren't square there rectangle. He doesn't give any detailed descriptions. He also mixes snow on the ground with lush green grass. So there is no way he was describing a scene he actually saw while floating above the roof. And finally, he still admits he has no concept of color.

Listen to him again several times. His description was not vague, the tram itself was very nondescript and he said this twice. He described the tram as square. You said thats not true because trams are rectangular. It all depends on what angle you are looking at it. From the front its square. From the side, however, its rectangular.

He never mixes snow on the ground with green grass so he's not confused. He describes two separate scenes. One is right after he floated through the roof, he said, and thats where he saw snow and the tram. The second is a description of heaven presumably, and here he describes the grass as the greenest grass you'll ever see. Contrast the boring nondescript tram with the brilliant green hue of grass, and you realize he's talking about heaven in the latter case.

He saw the tram from above looking down at it. There's no way his angle would of been where he could only see the front.

We have here a completely blind man. He is blind from birth. He identifies a tram outside during a NDE yet you want to call him a liar over the angle he described? This is a classic case of not seeing the forest from the trees. A blind man accurately described what was outside his building during a NDE! Why quibble over the angle described?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing something here. People can not travel to distant locations during dreams and overhear details of a private conversation between other people. People can not identify loved ones who have passed away who they never knew of or met after having a dream. How do you explain these occurrences with NDE then?

People can pretty much do anything in a dream. Where did you ever hear they can't travel to distant locations? Basically your dreams are only limited by your imagination.

There are many explanations to someone identifying someone they never knew or met. Although I find it amusing you claim they are loved ones yet they never knew them. But that's another story. The most obvious answer is they really do know them but just forgot they did. This occurs all the time. You think you know someone but not really sure. I swear I recognize that person, .... I know I know that person from somewhere ... There's lots of stuff in our brain we just lost connections to and cannot bring back into current memory. It's stored in our long term memory and then some trigger brings it back out.

You're not familiar with the nde cases then. Lying or being mistaken might be an explanation for a few, but not every one. If surgeons corroborated details of a private talk from different areas of the hospital, it can not be explained away with dreaming.

Do you have evidence that "every one" of reported NDEs has been corroborated by surgeons and others? I doubt it.

I want to understand your reasoning. So-- you need the corroborating evidence of a surgeon to confirm patients are not lying or dreaming? Is it the surgeons word you trust or would you accept anyones corroborating evidence? What if the person them self was a surgeon? Mary Neal is an orthopedic surgeon whose NDE validated other patients NDE. She confirmed the other patients in the existence of an afterlife and a God. There are many nurses who report their patients NDE and confirm they overheard details in other rooms. Google nde if you need proof. These surgeons, nurses, other professionals risk their reputation with such public declarations about the existence of an afterlife and a soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing something here. People can not travel to distant locations during dreams and overhear details of a private conversation between other people. People can not identify loved ones who have passed away who they never knew of or met after having a dream. How do you explain these occurrences with NDE then?

People can pretty much do anything in a dream. Where did you ever hear they can't travel to distant locations? Basically your dreams are only limited by your imagination.

There are many explanations to someone identifying someone they never knew or met. Although I find it amusing you claim they are loved ones yet they never knew them. But that's another story. The most obvious answer is they really do know them but just forgot they did. This occurs all the time. You think you know someone but not really sure. I swear I recognize that person, .... I know I know that person from somewhere ... There's lots of stuff in our brain we just lost connections to and cannot bring back into current memory. It's stored in our long term memory and then some trigger brings it back out.

You're not familiar with the nde cases then. Lying or being mistaken might be an explanation for a few, but not every one. If surgeons corroborated details of a private talk from different areas of the hospital, it can not be explained away with dreaming.

Do you have evidence that "every one" of reported NDEs has been corroborated by surgeons and others? I doubt it.

I want to understand your reasoning. So-- you need the corroborating evidence of a surgeon to confirm patients are not lying or dreaming? Is it the surgeons word you trust or would you accept anyones corroborating evidence? What if the person them self was a surgeon? Mary Neal is an orthopedic surgeon whose NDE validated other patients NDE. She confirmed the other patients in the existence of an afterlife and a God. There are many nurses who report their patients NDE and confirm they overheard details in other rooms. Google nde if you need proof. These surgeons, nurses, other professionals risk their reputation with such public declarations about the existence of an afterlife and a soul.

It's not a matter of taking the "word" of anyone -- it would require knowing exactly what happened when with everyone and everything. What did the surgeon say, when did he say it, when did the patient "hear" it, what were all the monitors indicating at that time, etc, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing something here. People can not travel to distant locations during dreams and overhear details of a private conversation between other people. People can not identify loved ones who have passed away who they never knew of or met after having a dream. How do you explain these occurrences with NDE then?

People can pretty much do anything in a dream. Where did you ever hear they can't travel to distant locations? Basically your dreams are only limited by your imagination.

There are many explanations to someone identifying someone they never knew or met. Although I find it amusing you claim they are loved ones yet they never knew them. But that's another story. The most obvious answer is they really do know them but just forgot they did. This occurs all the time. You think you know someone but not really sure. I swear I recognize that person, .... I know I know that person from somewhere ... There's lots of stuff in our brain we just lost connections to and cannot bring back into current memory. It's stored in our long term memory and then some trigger brings it back out.

You're not familiar with the nde cases then. Lying or being mistaken might be an explanation for a few, but not every one. If surgeons corroborated details of a private talk from different areas of the hospital, it can not be explained away with dreaming.

Do you have evidence that "every one" of reported NDEs has been corroborated by surgeons and others? I doubt it.

I want to understand your reasoning. So-- you need the corroborating evidence of a surgeon to confirm patients are not lying or dreaming? Is it the surgeons word you trust or would you accept anyones corroborating evidence? What if the person them self was a surgeon? Mary Neal is an orthopedic surgeon whose NDE validated other patients NDE. She confirmed the other patients in the existence of an afterlife and a God. There are many nurses who report their patients NDE and confirm they overheard details in other rooms. Google nde if you need proof. These surgeons, nurses, other professionals risk their reputation with such public declarations about the existence of an afterlife and a soul.

That's not proof, it's a bunch of stories of NDEs reported by people on the internet. I could make up a story and add it to the list right now. Even if there were some way to confirm that people having NDE's were hearing exact conversations of people in other rooms, it doesn't confirm "an afterlife or God"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Deja vu and lying can not explain thousands of NDE experiences. Telepathy, which NDE'ers say they had, still can not explain how blind people "see" when having a NDE. The fact that wrongdoers sometimes have terrifying NDE experiences in what they describe as hell lends credence to the concept of a God that follows through with his promise to punish wrongdoers.

Depending on when a person loses their vision they are able to see in dreams. It's only people who are blind from birth or become blind very young that never have visual dreams. They do however have a perception of light. Also, blind people do see with their hands and other senses. Meaning they are perfectly capable of understanding shapes, textures, sizes, etc. by touch. They however have no understanding of things like color. Almost all blind NDE reports do not include color descriptions. The reason being no other senses can perceive color and so they do not experience colors during an NDE.

The no colors during an NDE is perplexing. One would think that during an NDE if your vision is functioning it would be fully functioning. Which leads one to believe that images described by a blind person during an NDE are merely descriptions of how they perceive things visually with their other senses. It would be like asking a blind person to describe a box. They would be able to give a visually detailed description of it's size, shape, texture, etc. But if you asked them what color it was, they would not be able to describe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AfJbXe3rc
There aren't many youtube links of blind people who had NDE's. However, here is one of a man born blind and who had a NDE and saw visuals of snow and a tram without ever having heard a tram or touched either. There is also the famous case of Vicky Umipeg, the woman who was born blind and was clinically dead for 4 minutes. She reported that her visuals during her NDE were not in color. However, many blind people who had NDE's never dreamed images before in their life. Suddenly in a NDE, they have visuals. While many people who experienced NDE said it was a very loving and positive experience, seeing during a NDE was a horrifying and frightening experience for a blind person like Vicky. Kenneth Ring, who has researched NDE's for 20 yrs said many blind people report disorientation during their NDE's initially, and needing time to adjust to the images they see. We know that many people report experiencing heightened sensory awareness during NDEs. Colors are reported to be shocking and extremely vivid but beautiful.We can surmise that such a vivid vision could be extremely upsetting to someone who has never before known color, not even the color black. It may be that if they had lengthier NDEs, their eyes would slowly adjust to seeing color. Their NDEs are otherwise the same as others.

The man in the video describes very vague images, squares and tracks. Trams aren't square there rectangle. He doesn't give any detailed descriptions. He also mixes snow on the ground with lush green grass. So there is no way he was describing a scene he actually saw while floating above the roof. And finally, he still admits he has no concept of color.

Listen to him again several times. His description was not vague, the tram itself was very nondescript and he said this twice. He described the tram as square. You said thats not true because trams are rectangular. It all depends on what angle you are looking at it. From the front its square. From the side, however, its rectangular.

He never mixes snow on the ground with green grass so he's not confused. He describes two separate scenes. One is right after he floated through the roof, he said, and thats where he saw snow and the tram. The second is a description of heaven presumably, and here he describes the grass as the greenest grass you'll ever see. Contrast the boring nondescript tram with the brilliant green hue of grass, and you realize he's talking about heaven in the latter case.

He saw the tram from above looking down at it. There's no way his angle would of been where he could only see the front.

We have here a completely blind man. He is blind from birth. He identifies a tram outside during a NDE yet you want to call him a liar over the angle he described? This is a classic case of not seeing the forest from the trees. A blind man accurately described what was outside his building during a NDE! Why quibble over the angle described?

The blind man accurately described a square. He interpreted the square as a Tram. He did not see a Tram, he saw a Square. Why quibble over what he saw?

[Anonymous]

The actual explanation is that, unknown to the present state of scientific knowledge, the brain, during the time that our present sensors indicate no activity, has an ability akin to television. Perhaps, after sufficient study, we will one day be able to amplify and focus it to eavesdrop on ISIS and similar groups.

If you think that's far-fetched, how about a creature that has no knowledge of the world,

[Anonymous]

(cont) coming into your house, and by eavesdropping on you figures out how to use your language? Now that's something that I sill think is a scam -- those "babies" must be some kind of aliens coming to take over our world!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing something here. People can not travel to distant locations during dreams and overhear details of a private conversation between other people. People can not identify loved ones who have passed away who they never knew of or met after having a dream. How do you explain these occurrences with NDE then?

People can pretty much do anything in a dream. Where did you ever hear they can't travel to distant locations? Basically your dreams are only limited by your imagination.

There are many explanations to someone identifying someone they never knew or met. Although I find it amusing you claim they are loved ones yet they never knew them. But that's another story. The most obvious answer is they really do know them but just forgot they did. This occurs all the time. You think you know someone but not really sure. I swear I recognize that person, .... I know I know that person from somewhere ... There's lots of stuff in our brain we just lost connections to and cannot bring back into current memory. It's stored in our long term memory and then some trigger brings it back out.

You're not familiar with the nde cases then. Lying or being mistaken might be an explanation for a few, but not every one. If surgeons corroborated details of a private talk from different areas of the hospital, it can not be explained away with dreaming.

Do you have evidence that "every one" of reported NDEs has been corroborated by surgeons and others? I doubt it.

I want to understand your reasoning. So-- you need the corroborating evidence of a surgeon to confirm patients are not lying or dreaming? Is it the surgeons word you trust or would you accept anyones corroborating evidence? What if the person them self was a surgeon? Mary Neal is an orthopedic surgeon whose NDE validated other patients NDE. She confirmed the other patients in the existence of an afterlife and a God. There are many nurses who report their patients NDE and confirm they overheard details in other rooms. Google nde if you need proof. These surgeons, nurses, other professionals risk their reputation with such public declarations about the existence of an afterlife and a soul.

That's not proof, it's a bunch of stories of NDEs reported by people on the internet. I could make up a story and add it to the list right now. Even if there were some way to confirm that people having NDE's were hearing exact conversations of people in other rooms, it doesn't confirm "an afterlife or God"

If you discount the testimony of thousands of patients, then you discount the confirmation of doctors and nurses who verify their information, then you ignore NDE'ers who are surgeons or nurses, what data remains to scientifically evaluate? I think the reason all testimonies are discounted is because science lacks the tools to explain it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Deja vu and lying can not explain thousands of NDE experiences. Telepathy, which NDE'ers say they had, still can not explain how blind people "see" when having a NDE. The fact that wrongdoers sometimes have terrifying NDE experiences in what they describe as hell lends credence to the concept of a God that follows through with his promise to punish wrongdoers.

Depending on when a person loses their vision they are able to see in dreams. It's only people who are blind from birth or become blind very young that never have visual dreams. They do however have a perception of light. Also, blind people do see with their hands and other senses. Meaning they are perfectly capable of understanding shapes, textures, sizes, etc. by touch. They however have no understanding of things like color. Almost all blind NDE reports do not include color descriptions. The reason being no other senses can perceive color and so they do not experience colors during an NDE.

The no colors during an NDE is perplexing. One would think that during an NDE if your vision is functioning it would be fully functioning. Which leads one to believe that images described by a blind person during an NDE are merely descriptions of how they perceive things visually with their other senses. It would be like asking a blind person to describe a box. They would be able to give a visually detailed description of it's size, shape, texture, etc. But if you asked them what color it was, they would not be able to describe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AfJbXe3rc
There aren't many youtube links of blind people who had NDE's. However, here is one of a man born blind and who had a NDE and saw visuals of snow and a tram without ever having heard a tram or touched either. There is also the famous case of Vicky Umipeg, the woman who was born blind and was clinically dead for 4 minutes. She reported that her visuals during her NDE were not in color. However, many blind people who had NDE's never dreamed images before in their life. Suddenly in a NDE, they have visuals. While many people who experienced NDE said it was a very loving and positive experience, seeing during a NDE was a horrifying and frightening experience for a blind person like Vicky. Kenneth Ring, who has researched NDE's for 20 yrs said many blind people report disorientation during their NDE's initially, and needing time to adjust to the images they see. We know that many people report experiencing heightened sensory awareness during NDEs. Colors are reported to be shocking and extremely vivid but beautiful.We can surmise that such a vivid vision could be extremely upsetting to someone who has never before known color, not even the color black. It may be that if they had lengthier NDEs, their eyes would slowly adjust to seeing color. Their NDEs are otherwise the same as others.

The man in the video describes very vague images, squares and tracks. Trams aren't square there rectangle. He doesn't give any detailed descriptions. He also mixes snow on the ground with lush green grass. So there is no way he was describing a scene he actually saw while floating above the roof. And finally, he still admits he has no concept of color.

Listen to him again several times. His description was not vague, the tram itself was very nondescript and he said this twice. He described the tram as square. You said thats not true because trams are rectangular. It all depends on what angle you are looking at it. From the front its square. From the side, however, its rectangular.

He never mixes snow on the ground with green grass so he's not confused. He describes two separate scenes. One is right after he floated through the roof, he said, and thats where he saw snow and the tram. The second is a description of heaven presumably, and here he describes the grass as the greenest grass you'll ever see. Contrast the boring nondescript tram with the brilliant green hue of grass, and you realize he's talking about heaven in the latter case.

He saw the tram from above looking down at it. There's no way his angle would of been where he could only see the front.

We have here a completely blind man. He is blind from birth. He identifies a tram outside during a NDE yet you want to call him a liar over the angle he described? This is a classic case of not seeing the forest from the trees. A blind man accurately described what was outside his building during a NDE! Why quibble over the angle described?

The blind man accurately described a square. He interpreted the square as a Tram. He did not see a Tram, he saw a Square. Why quibble over what he saw?

So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.

You really think he didn't know tram tracks and trams went by that building before his NDE? Or was he totally making it up and trams never have gone by the building? I think your leg is amputated if you think the man's testimony/story is earth shattering proof of heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you discount the testimony of thousands of patients, then you discount the confirmation of doctors and nurses who verify their information, then you ignore NDE'ers who are surgeons or nurses, what data remains to scientifically evaluate? I think the reason all testimonies are discounted is because science lacks the tools to explain it.

I think NDE's themselves are not discounted. But the content or meaning of the NDEs are. Take the common ascent into heaven, aka the bright tunnel of light and angel ones. These images have been previously implanted into our mines. Almost everyone knows the general story before they have an NDE. So the fact they recall thoughts already in their brain is not significant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you are missing something here. People can not travel to distant locations during dreams and overhear details of a private conversation between other people. People can not identify loved ones who have passed away who they never knew of or met after having a dream. How do you explain these occurrences with NDE then?

People can pretty much do anything in a dream. Where did you ever hear they can't travel to distant locations? Basically your dreams are only limited by your imagination.

There are many explanations to someone identifying someone they never knew or met. Although I find it amusing you claim they are loved ones yet they never knew them. But that's another story. The most obvious answer is they really do know them but just forgot they did. This occurs all the time. You think you know someone but not really sure. I swear I recognize that person, .... I know I know that person from somewhere ... There's lots of stuff in our brain we just lost connections to and cannot bring back into current memory. It's stored in our long term memory and then some trigger brings it back out.

You're not familiar with the nde cases then. Lying or being mistaken might be an explanation for a few, but not every one. If surgeons corroborated details of a private talk from different areas of the hospital, it can not be explained away with dreaming.

Do you have evidence that "every one" of reported NDEs has been corroborated by surgeons and others? I doubt it.

I would not ignore 1,000's of actual research subjects, but that's not what that NDE site is. Anyone can sign in and tell their story. It's not even a bad study. It's no study at all.

I want to understand your reasoning. So-- you need the corroborating evidence of a surgeon to confirm patients are not lying or dreaming? Is it the surgeons word you trust or would you accept anyones corroborating evidence? What if the person them self was a surgeon? Mary Neal is an orthopedic surgeon whose NDE validated other patients NDE. She confirmed the other patients in the existence of an afterlife and a God. There are many nurses who report their patients NDE and confirm they overheard details in other rooms. Google nde if you need proof. These surgeons, nurses, other professionals risk their reputation with such public declarations about the existence of an afterlife and a soul.

That's not proof, it's a bunch of stories of NDEs reported by people on the internet. I could make up a story and add it to the list right now. Even if there were some way to confirm that people having NDE's were hearing exact conversations of people in other rooms, it doesn't confirm "an afterlife or God"

If you discount the testimony of thousands of patients, then you discount the confirmation of doctors and nurses who verify their information, then you ignore NDE'ers who are surgeons or nurses, what data remains to scientifically evaluate? I think the reason all testimonies are discounted is because science lacks the tools to explain it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(cont) coming into your house, and by eavesdropping on you figures out how to use your language? Now that's something that I sill think is a scam -- those "babies" must be some kind of aliens coming to take over our world!

and those babies, who can't even walk or go to the bathroom on their won, are capable of picking up ANY language and speaking it, when they learn how to speak, like a native. As they get older, this amazing ability diminishes. Weird

perhaps it's proof of heaven!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(cont) coming into your house, and by eavesdropping on you figures out how to use your language? Now that's something that I sill think is a scam -- those "babies" must be some kind of aliens coming to take over our world!

and those babies, who can't even walk or go to the bathroom on their won, are capable of picking up ANY language and speaking it, when they learn how to speak, like a native. As they get older, this amazing ability diminishes. Weird

perhaps it's proof of heaven!

It takes a baby multiple years before they can fluently speak. If you embedded just about anyone into a culture that only spoke one language that person would learn to speak that language faster than a baby.