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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Deja vu and lying can not explain thousands of NDE experiences. Telepathy, which NDE'ers say they had, still can not explain how blind people "see" when having a NDE. The fact that wrongdoers sometimes have terrifying NDE experiences in what they describe as hell lends credence to the concept of a God that follows through with his promise to punish wrongdoers. 
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Depending on when a person loses their vision they are able to see in dreams.  It's only people who are blind from birth or become blind very young that never have visual dreams.  They do however have a perception of light.  Also, blind people do see with their hands and other senses.  Meaning they are perfectly capable of understanding shapes, textures, sizes, etc. by touch.  They however have no understanding of things like color.  Almost all blind NDE reports do not include color descriptions.  The reason being no other senses can perceive color and so they do not experience colors during an NDE.

The no colors during an NDE is perplexing.   One would think that during an NDE if your vision is functioning it would be fully functioning.  Which leads one to believe that images described by a blind person during an NDE are merely descriptions of how they perceive things visually with their other senses.  It would be like asking a blind person to describe a box.  They would be able to give a visually detailed description of it's size, shape, texture, etc.  But if you asked them what color it was, they would not be able to describe it.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AfJbXe3rc
There aren't many youtube links of blind people who had NDE's. However, here is one of a man born blind and who had a NDE and saw visuals of snow and a tram without ever having heard a tram or touched either. There is also the famous case of Vicky Umipeg, the woman who was born blind and was clinically dead for 4 minutes. She reported that her visuals during her NDE were not in color. However, many blind people who had NDE's never dreamed images before in their life. Suddenly in a NDE, they have visuals. While many people who experienced NDE said it was a very loving and positive experience, seeing during a NDE was a horrifying and frightening experience for a blind person like Vicky. Kenneth Ring, who has researched NDE's for 20 yrs said many blind people report disorientation during their NDE's initially, and needing time to adjust to the images they see. We know that many people report experiencing heightened sensory awareness during NDEs. Colors are reported to be shocking and extremely vivid but beautiful.We can surmise that such a vivid vision could be extremely upsetting to someone who has never before known color, not even the color black. It may be that if they had lengthier NDEs, their eyes would slowly adjust to seeing color. Their NDEs are otherwise the same as others.

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The man in the video describes very vague images, squares and tracks.  Trams aren't square there rectangle.  He doesn't give any detailed descriptions.  He also mixes snow on the ground with lush green grass.  So there is no way he was describing a scene he actually saw while floating above the roof.  And finally, he still admits he has no concept of color.[/quote]

Listen to him again several times. His description was not vague, the tram itself was very nondescript and he said this twice. He described the tram as square. You said thats not true because trams are rectangular. It all depends on what angle you are looking at it. From the front its square. From the side, however, its rectangular.

He never mixes snow on the ground with green grass so he's not confused. He describes two separate scenes. One is right after he floated through the roof, he said, and thats where he saw snow and the tram. The second is a description of heaven presumably, and here he describes the grass as the greenest grass you'll ever see. Contrast the boring nondescript tram with the brilliant green hue of grass, and you realize he's  talking about heaven in the latter case.[/quote]
He saw the tram from above looking down at it.  There's no way his angle would of been where he could only see the front.[/quote]

We have here a completely blind man. He is blind from birth. He identifies a tram outside during a NDE yet you want to call him a liar over the angle he described? This is a classic case of not seeing the forest from the trees. A blind man accurately described what was outside his building during a NDE! Why quibble over the angle described? [/quote]
The blind man accurately described a square.  He interpreted the square as a Tram.  He did not see a Tram, he saw a Square.  Why quibble over what he saw?[/quote]

So the blind man saw a square and mistook it for a tram or are you saying he saw a tram and mistook it for a square? He clearly said " I saw a tram and it was an ordinary square tram." That a tram, in fact, existed outside his building is what is compelling, not that he described it as squarish." Trams are very boxy looking. He nailed it simply by identifying a tram. Sorry but it sure does look like you don't have a leg to stand on.[/quote]

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