MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not

[Anonymous]

"BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods. "

+1 It seems that in most areas of the county they do make an effort to zone in some of the middle class families; but they basically abandon this effort when it comes to the SW part of the county so that it doesn't much impact the richest area - mostly just middle class & poor kids mixing rather than rich & poor.

[Anonymous]

True. The school district wouldn't unpair Oak View and NHE elementary schools (even though families in both areas would prefer neighborhood schools) because they didn't want to increase the FARMS rate of NHE by 2% and decrease the FARMS of OV by 2%. So in less affluent areas MCPS will bus to make a very small difference in FARMS rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So what is the solution? Forced busing? Open all schools to lottery so that all kids might be bused 2-3 hours each day to school? Force developers to build low-income housing projects in wealthy neighborhoods, or prohibit further development of expensive housing in W districts? I'm wondering what *specifically* MoCo and MCPS should do beyond what it's doing?

Why do you assume that the only way to increase the supply of not-ridiculously-expensive housing in wealthy neighborhoods is to force developers to build "low-income housing projects"? How about allowing developers to build multi-family housing (including apartment and condo buildings) in wealthy neighborhoods? How about allowing homeowners in wealthy neighborhoods, as well as non-wealthy neighborhoods, to create and rent out accessory apartments?

There ARE apartments and condos in Bethesda. Unless you make them public housing developments, the rent and cost to buy will rise with the market. The demand is huge, so even basic 2 BR apartments will rent at $2400 and up, and 2 BR 1400 sf condos will cost $500K and up. And there are houses that are available for rent. Just drive around. But I think most rent for $4000/mo. I wasn't aware of any rule against renting rooms. Again, unless you're talking about public housing projects, how will you control for market pricing? And the issue is not "allowing" developers to build apartments and condos -- really, the state/county should be *requiring* developers to set aside some lower priced units. Otherwise the developers will only build luxury units. Developers are not interested in building affordable housing. They want top dollar for their projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods. "

+1 It seems that in most areas of the county they do make an effort to zone in some of the middle class families; but they basically abandon this effort when it comes to the SW part of the county so that it doesn't much impact the richest area - mostly just middle class & poor kids mixing rather than rich & poor.

come on, there is not rich in public school. rich people send their kids to private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

See 10:16 above. MCPS is already busing. BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods.

That's part of the problem. Why are the super affluent schools exempt from the busing?

Now THAT is a good question!

Could it be that they have a voice before the school board that the rest of the county does not?

[Anonymous]

There is history behind this. Back in the 70's/early 80's, the county sought to satisfy its Civil Rights obligations by instituting bussing from some of the poorest neighborhoods in the county, but only the communities that lacked the ability to prevent it from happening (meaning, lacked the money and political influence) ended up being included in these programs. In other words, all of the high income areas avoided being subject to these programs. That's how you end up with genius arrangements that pair schools like New Hampshire Estates with Oak View Elementary school in the name of socio economic diversity, even though both schools are attended by predominately low-income and non-English speaking students. So they bus between two poor neighborhoods with the explanation that one is, indeed, a little poorer than the other. And thus the county's obligation to achieve diversity under the Civil Rights Act was satisfied. It's silly and serves almost no purpose other than to highlight the different treatment received by schools and communities in the Red Zone. And as for MCPS, they continue to defend the bussing program in these areas as effective. It's a total joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

See 10:16 above. MCPS is already busing. BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods.

That's part of the problem. Why are the super affluent schools exempt from the busing?

Have you tried to drive, during rush hour, from someplace like Potomac to anywhere east of Bethesda or far enough into Rockville that you're reaching kids who are not also wealthy? It's a long-ass drive. This is precisely why many W parents/kids don't pursue competitive magnet programs on the eastern side of the county and stay with their home schools. The 2-3 hour daily commute is not worth it.

I didn't care for the poster who complained about diluting her fancy prom either, but there are practical considerations about busing kids in and out of the W districts having nothing to do with how the different races/SES groups feel about each other. BCC happens to abut neighborhoods where busing can make the schools more diverse, but the further west you go, the harder the logistics get.

Also, many of these schools are already overcapacity. That is a consideration too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's part of the problem. Why are the super affluent schools exempt from the busing?

I think a county-wise lottery for every school is a better solution. Of course, there will be no super good schools, but there will be no super bad schools either.

[Anonymous]

"There ARE apartments and condos in Bethesda. Unless you make them public housing developments, the rent and cost to buy will rise with the market. "

yes. which is why busing is actually a better solution than solely using housing policy to try to address these issues.

[Anonymous]

"I think a county-wise lottery for every school is a better solution. Of course, there will be no super good schools, but there will be no super bad schools either. "

the latter is a great goal. But a lottery in a county that's still heavily reliant on cars would make for traffic nightmares as the buses pick up random kids everywhere or parents have to schlep them extra trips for far distances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Liberal whites will always protect their children from the consequences of their politics . The reason whites in the south are conservative is that they actually live and educate together with the natural friction. But at least they integrate, the northern whites have the worst character on earth meticulously separating themselves but preaching inclusion to raise themselves up and receive adulation. It's so gross.

Truth! I'm a minority and I agree with you 100% It's so disturbing and definitely gross! That's why I don't trust "some" liberal whites in this area. Their actions and character have proved to me just how vile they can be. Their veiled and subtle racism don't fool me.

[Anonymous]

"Have you tried to drive, during rush hour, from someplace like Potomac to anywhere east of Bethesda or far enough into Rockville that you're reaching kids who are not also wealthy? It's a long-ass drive. "

But part of the long commute is because the pull zone for the magnets is so big, right? If you are focusing the busing on particular areas rather than pick-up from very dispersed spots it might not take that long to reverse commute east.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

See 10:16 above. MCPS is already busing. BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods.

That's part of the problem. Why are the super affluent schools exempt from the busing?

Have you tried to drive, during rush hour, from someplace like Potomac to anywhere east of Bethesda or far enough into Rockville that you're reaching kids who are not also wealthy? It's a long-ass drive. This is precisely why many W parents/kids don't pursue competitive magnet programs on the eastern side of the county and stay with their home schools. The 2-3 hour daily commute is not worth it.

I didn't care for the poster who complained about diluting her fancy prom either, but there are practical considerations about busing kids in and out of the W districts having nothing to do with how the different races/SES groups feel about each other. BCC happens to abut neighborhoods where busing can make the schools more diverse, but the further west you go, the harder the logistics get.

Also, many of these schools are already overcapacity. That is a consideration too.

Traffic is a concern.

Then how about busing the kids from the RM district to the Churchill district, or Wootton. RM is *very* close to Wootton. The Horizon Hill neighborhood, which is a stones throw from Wootton, is bused to RM. Why aren't the areas closer to RM bused to Wootton then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Have you tried to drive, during rush hour, from someplace like Potomac to anywhere east of Bethesda or far enough into Rockville that you're reaching kids who are not also wealthy? It's a long-ass drive. "

But part of the long commute is because the pull zone for the magnets is so big, right? If you are focusing the busing on particular areas rather than pick-up from very dispersed spots it might not take that long to reverse commute east.

Yes. Or north, to Rockville/Gaithersburg.

It is 6.5 miles from Churchill HS to Rockville HS, and 5.9 miles from Wootton to Rockville HS. From Wootton HS to Gaithersburg HS, the distance is 5.2 miles.

These are a similar distance as the distance from e.g. Blair HS to Einstein HS. The home school for families who live close to Blair in e.g. Woodside Park and Woodside Forest is Einstein, although Blair is closer. Thanks to economic diversity gerrymandering, those families bus their kids to Einstein HS.

In other words, the busing distance/logistics for the western downcounty schools would be comparable to the BUSING IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW in the downcounty/east.

So why aren't we doing that again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

I assumed that this was a troll. I really hope it was a troll!