MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I raised the busing question on the thread about the new BCC middle school - we are in the Rosemary Hills catchment although not the neighborhood and while I love our schools (kids in both elementaries), I do question why these kids are bused while none of the other W schools are subject to any effort to promote desegregation. There was a very articulate and well-informed (nonpolemical) response in that thread explaining the difficulties of gerrymandering diverse elementaries in much of Bethesda and Potomac.

I don't have a good solution to any of this. But I do wonder whether the county is exposed to civil rights challenges.

We're a mixed-race family in a pretty diverse neighborhood in the Whitman cluster. One year one of our kids had a classroom that was close to 50% non-white. It's true that diversity overall is less than elsewhere in the county. The cluster is heavily single-family homes, and yes, they are expensive. There are plans to build a lot of new apartments in the Westbard area of Bethesda, which may create some lower-cost housing opportunities and could help with diversity as well. I support the idea, but want the county/city to think about how this will impact the schools, which are very overcrowded as it is. Wood Acres, which would serve most or all of the new units in Westbard, has something like 850 kids already and is about to close for 18 months to undergo a much needed expansion. Other than that, creating more diversity might require busing, which, given where Bethesda and Potomac are, could end up subjecting kids to heinously long bus rides. I agree with the previous poster that gerrymandering boundaries would be hard because of geographics and existing overcapacity for most of the schools. I don't see an easy solution either.

Besides most parents don't want their kids around Whitman kids, so there is an issue getting them to want to bus.

Huh? Was this a joke? What's the deal with Whitman kids?

Drugs, elitist, lawyers getting them out of everything, never being accountable

[Anonymous]

What's the big deal about redrawing school boundaries to increase diversity? Or busing? Or really anything that the school district could do to lessen the segregation of the schools? Is your expensive house really going to suddenly drastically drop in value? Should it matter if the market value of your house does drop? Will it lead to massive white flight to... somewhere else? I just really don't think it would be that big of a deal to have the schools become a little more reflective of the socioeconomic and racial diversity of our area. As some posters have pointed out, their schools already are diverse. I'm sure the sky wouldn't fall if more schools were like those. Honestly, who doesn't value and benefit from a diverse student population?

[Anonymous]

Redrawing boundaries and bussing are impractical and costly. Please don't assume that minorities would be eager for their kids to spend hours on a bus each day. Heck, I know parents who bailed on the HGCs and magnet programs because the bus commute was too taxing on the kids. Plus, it's tough to have friends when you don't live in the same area (after school play dates aren't practical, kids typically aren't on the same teams, etc.).

And new housing policies aren't going to fix the current situation. The mpdu program and zoning laws are helpful...but only for set asides for new developments. Expecting tons of new construction in the wealthier areas? Not so much. And let's pretend we could magically steer every family with a new housing voucher to Bethesda or Potomac...would that make an impact? Not so much. First of all, they aren't even putting names on the housing voucher list anymore (no new vouchers). And many voucher holders are elderly and/or disabled adults...not families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Redrawing boundaries and bussing are impractical and costly. Please don't assume that minorities would be eager for their kids to spend hours on a bus each day. Heck, I know parents who bailed on the HGCs and magnet programs because the bus commute was too taxing on the kids. Plus, it's tough to have friends when you don't live in the same area (after school play dates aren't practical, kids typically aren't on the same teams, etc.).

And new housing policies aren't going to fix the current situation. The mpdu program and zoning laws are helpful...but only for set asides for new developments. Expecting tons of new construction in the wealthier areas? Not so much. And let's pretend we could magically steer every family with a new housing voucher to Bethesda or Potomac...would that make an impact? Not so much. First of all, they aren't even putting names on the housing voucher list anymore (no new vouchers). And many voucher holders are elderly and/or disabled adults...not families.

Actually, yes, if the zoning laws got rewritten properly. Why not? They're nice places to live. Demand exceeds supply. Accessory apartments would also go over well.

I'm also not sure why it would be the poor kids who would have to spend hours on a bus each day. Why couldn't the rich kids spend hours on a bus each day? Why couldn't some rich kids and some poor kids spend hours on a bus each day? But, in any case, as a middle-class white person, I am certainly not qualified to say what poor minority parents would or would not be willing to do -- and unless you're a poor minority parent, you're not either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But a school can be "majority non-white" and still be very diverse. I think this describes a lot of MoCo schools.

Kennedy is a majority minority school with lots of national diversity and few whites.

[Anonymous]

My kids are white and are minorities in their school. It's diverse in number but the lunch room groups, recess groups and other socializing is not so diverse. And this is Elementary School. Maybe once middle school or high school activities start there is more mingling, or maybe not. Are sports programs self-segregating too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are white and are minorities in their school. It's diverse in number but the lunch room groups, recess groups and other socializing is not so diverse. And this is Elementary School. Maybe once middle school or high school activities start there is more mingling, or maybe not. Are sports programs self-segregating too?

I've taught in MCPS for over a decade. There's more self-segregation in secondary and, yes, some sports are "whiter" or "browner" than others.

[Anonymous]

I don't see an easy solution nor if we really need one. We bought a house in X area because we liked the area and it had good schools. If the area is rezoned for bad schools, won't people who can afford to just move to areas zoned for good schools?

Besides, the school district is factored into property values. Property values are higher in areas with good schools. Why should MCPS make a change that would reduce the equity (property values) of so many residents in the name of diversity?

[Anonymous]

Compared to a great majority of the country - Mcps is pretty diverse. Including the schools with a majority of one race. We moved from an area where the schools were 95% white. Mcps is diverse.

I will grant you that socio economically - there does appear to be a divide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Compared to a great majority of the country - Mcps is pretty diverse. Including the schools with a majority of one race. We moved from an area where the schools were 95% white. Mcps is diverse.

I will grant you that socio economically - there does appear to be a divide.

And therein lies the problem. SES in a lot of cases is tied to ethnicity around here, as well as other parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/03/mapping-the-counties-where-public-school-children-still-remain-segregated/?tid=HP_national

It is disturbing to see just how segregated our school system is. IMO it is all about housing. We have segregated housing, and therefore segregated schools.

Wonkblog?!? oh please.

What's disturbing? You want each school 1/4 hispanic, 1/4 black, 1/4 white and 1/4 asian? Then go to private school. Or rent out half your house to a "diverse" family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I raised the busing question on the thread about the new BCC middle school - we are in the Rosemary Hills catchment although not the neighborhood and while I love our schools (kids in both elementaries), I do question why these kids are bused while none of the other W schools are subject to any effort to promote desegregation. There was a very articulate and well-informed (nonpolemical) response in that thread explaining the difficulties of gerrymandering diverse elementaries in much of Bethesda and Potomac.

I don't have a good solution to any of this. But I do wonder whether the county is exposed to civil rights challenges.

We're a mixed-race family in a pretty diverse neighborhood in the Whitman cluster. One year one of our kids had a classroom that was close to 50% non-white. It's true that diversity overall is less than elsewhere in the county. The cluster is heavily single-family homes, and yes, they are expensive. There are plans to build a lot of new apartments in the Westbard area of Bethesda, which may create some lower-cost housing opportunities and could help with diversity as well. I support the idea, but want the county/city to think about how this will impact the schools, which are very overcrowded as it is. Wood Acres, which would serve most or all of the new units in Westbard, has something like 850 kids already and is about to close for 18 months to undergo a much needed expansion. Other than that, creating more diversity might require busing, which, given where Bethesda and Potomac are, could end up subjecting kids to heinously long bus rides. I agree with the previous poster that gerrymandering boundaries would be hard because of geographics and existing overcapacity for most of the schools. I don't see an easy solution either.

Besides most parents don't want their kids around Whitman kids, so there is an issue getting them to want to bus.

Huh? Was this a joke? What's the deal with Whitman kids?

Oh please. Whitman is a great school. Jealous much?

Drugs, elitist, lawyers getting them out of everything, never being accountable

[Anonymous]

To 21:14 - Bussing will never happen. It's way too costly and controversial. If we can't afford to adjust the bus schedules so the HS kids don't need to be at the bus stop at 6:30, then fat chance we can afford to bus kids across the county in the name of diversity.

If they magically decided to bus wealthy white kids, parents would yank their kids out and put them in private.

Where is there tons of open land to be developed in Bethseda and Potomac? I'm not talking about tear downs or a smattering of McMansions. You need a large enough development for mpdu laws to apply...and even so, it's a small portion of essentially workforce housing (which often means white people who are cops, firefighters, teachers.. People with steady incomes).

Unfortunately, the low income housing is concentrated in certain areas of the county. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Not to mention the obvious self segregation. Spanish speaking people have moved into certain areas with the most Spanish speaking businesses and services. That's why certain schools are nearly 100% Hispanic (Weller Rd Elem). No one forced them to move to that area. They chose it to be close to their friends, family and support network. And they love their school and community. It's a bit paternalistic for us to assume they would prefer to bus their kids elsewhere to have the benefit of sitting in a classroom with white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the line in the article that just isn't true. Yes, segregation is still an issue, but many black and Hispanic children attend very diverse schools in MoCo. Just because a school is majority non-white doesn't make it not diverse.

"Montgomery County, Md. is relatively diverse, with 34 percent of students white, 21 percent black and 26 percent Latino. But nearly 90 percent of both black and Hispanic children attend majority non-white schools. These children, in other words, live in a diverse county, but they don't attend diverse schools."

What are the options for diversity here? White, Asian, black, Hispanic, and multiple.

Now, I don't think that there are many schools in Montgomery County with a high proportion of Asian students and few white students -- although perhaps I'm wrong. And the proportion of multiple in MCPS is very small. So that leaves what?

In other words, lots of black and Hispanic children are going to schools where the majority of students is black and Hispanic. The 8 Northeast and Downcounty consortium high schools account for almost half of Montgomery County's black and Hispanic high school students. Meanwhile, 6 high schools (guess which ones?) account for more than half of Montgomery County's white high school students. That's de facto segregation.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19285/de-facto-segregation-threatens-montgomery-public-schools/

Exactly. Of course a school is not diverse if it is majority non-white. What else could it be?