MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what does white even mean? The term white includes people from west, central and south Asia, people from north Africa, and Europeans. Starting out that is a pretty diverse group. Since the US census shows Asians as the fastest growing race in American it seems seeing more children descended from that race in schools normal.

I thought Hispanics were the fastest growing group.

White does not mean Asian. But if you are talking about achievement, then I think Asians and Whites are lumped together since Asians are high performing in schools.

I am from the Middle East and I am white

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

See 10:16 above. MCPS is already busing. BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

I don't know where they are busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill. However, there is more to MCPS than Wootton and Churchill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^PP here, reposting for clarity as the formatting didn't work properly:

...

You are correct - the people in the school are what make it "good" or "better than" other schools. Exchanging entire bodies of students would not improve performance. But it is a FACT that mixing up the SES of students in the school does improve performance. This makes a given school where that is done better.

Any reference for the FACT. what does "school improve performance" mean? The average test scores of the whole school, or the average scores of the SES students?

[Anonymous]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january_february_2013/on_political_books/class_no_longer_dismissed042129.php?page=all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"for certain people, if you are not poor enough, you are not counted as part of diversity, regardless your ethnic background. "

That is because for some reason the people that highlight disparities keep using race as the focus point rather than income. I very much disagree with this approach although it's true that a lot of the time race can serve as a decent stand-in proxy for income.

But the child of a black lawyer is not coming from at all the same educational situation as the child of a black housekeeper. I think very few people nowadays - at least in MoCo - would oppose the first being in their school in sizable numbers while many would oppose sizable amounts of the latter type of kid. It's SES that matters most - not race when you're talking about educational issues.

Race matters too. It does. As much as white people (I am one) can handwave about SES, race matters. And I actually do think that a meaningful proportion of white and Asian people in Montgomery County would not want to send their children to a majority-black school even if all of the black parents at the school were doctors and lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^PP here, reposting for clarity as the formatting didn't work properly:

...

You are correct - the people in the school are what make it "good" or "better than" other schools. Exchanging entire bodies of students would not improve performance. But it is a FACT that mixing up the SES of students in the school does improve performance. This makes a given school where that is done better.

Any reference for the FACT. what does "school improve performance" mean? The average test scores of the whole school, or the average scores of the SES students?

The SES students? Every student is an SES student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january_february_2013/on_political_books/class_no_longer_dismissed042129.php?page=all

Article info -

January/ February 2013 Class No Longer Dismissed

Why some conservatives are warming to socioeconomic school integration.

By Richard D. Kahlenberg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But a school can be "majority non-white" and still be very diverse. I think this describes a lot of MoCo schools.

Did you read the article?

Not PP you are quoting, but yes, I did rad the article. DD's school follows the county percentages of black, white and hispanic almost exactly. I consider it to be a diverse school. No single race is in the majority, and there are students from many different countries.

I agree - our school is not majority (over 50%) of any race. On international night - there were around 30 countries represented.

That said - and I do realize there are schools in MoCo that aren't as diverse. But a lot are. I realized that when we were searching for a home and looking at schools.

+1 My DC's ES school is not majority any one race. I quite like that about the school. This is why we chose to buy where we did.

That's great! What school does your child attend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But a school can be "majority non-white" and still be very diverse. I think this describes a lot of MoCo schools.

Did you read the article?

Not PP you are quoting, but yes, I did rad the article. DD's school follows the county percentages of black, white and hispanic almost exactly. I consider it to be a diverse school. No single race is in the majority, and there are students from many different countries.

I agree - our school is not majority (over 50%) of any race. On international night - there were around 30 countries represented.

That said - and I do realize there are schools in MoCo that aren't as diverse. But a lot are. I realized that when we were searching for a home and looking at schools.

+1 My DC's ES school is not majority any one race. I quite like that about the school. This is why we chose to buy where we did.

That's great! What school does your child attend?

I'm not PP - but our school is like that College Gardens Elem.

Other areas we considered had similar demographics:

Thurgood Marshall Elem in Gburg
Diamond Elem in Gburg
Candlewood Elem in Derwood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^PP here, reposting for clarity as the formatting didn't work properly:

...

You are correct - the people in the school are what make it "good" or "better than" other schools. Exchanging entire bodies of students would not improve performance. But it is a FACT that mixing up the SES of students in the school does improve performance. This makes a given school where that is done better.

Any reference for the FACT. what does "school improve performance" mean? The average test scores of the whole school, or the average scores of the SES students?

http://pages.jh.edu/~jhumag/0400web/18.html

Other studies draw the same conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But a school can be "majority non-white" and still be very diverse. I think this describes a lot of MoCo schools.

Did you read the article?

Not PP you are quoting, but yes, I did rad the article. DD's school follows the county percentages of black, white and hispanic almost exactly. I consider it to be a diverse school. No single race is in the majority, and there are students from many different countries.

I agree - our school is not majority (over 50%) of any race. On international night - there were around 30 countries represented.

That said - and I do realize there are schools in MoCo that aren't as diverse. But a lot are. I realized that when we were searching for a home and looking at schools.

+1 My DC's ES school is not majority any one race. I quite like that about the school. This is why we chose to buy where we did.

That's great! What school does your child attend?

Then our school is diverse enough too, we have 50% white + 40% Asian. And yes, more than 30 coutries represented on international night.

I'm not PP - but our school is like that College Gardens Elem.

Other areas we considered had similar demographics:

Thurgood Marshall Elem in Gburg
Diamond Elem in Gburg
Candlewood Elem in Derwood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But a school can be "majority non-white" and still be very diverse. I think this describes a lot of MoCo schools.

Did you read the article?

Not PP you are quoting, but yes, I did rad the article. DD's school follows the county percentages of black, white and hispanic almost exactly. I consider it to be a diverse school. No single race is in the majority, and there are students from many different countries.

I agree - our school is not majority (over 50%) of any race. On international night - there were around 30 countries represented.

That said - and I do realize there are schools in MoCo that aren't as diverse. But a lot are. I realized that when we were searching for a home and looking at schools.

+1 My DC's ES school is not majority any one race. I quite like that about the school. This is why we chose to buy where we did.

That's great! What school does your child attend?

reposting the link again.. http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/19285/de-facto-segregation-threatens-montgomery-public-schools/

The HS clusters that are in the middle of the graphs have a pretty good mix of SES and ethnicity - QO and RM. It may not be an exact replica of MoCo as a whole, but it's a good mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

I don't know where they are busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill. However, there is more to MCPS than Wootton and Churchill.

I remember that thread. Hilariously sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you pro-busing folks actually hoping to accomplish?

Is the goal diversity in schools as an end to itself?

So you think LES kids will get a better education if mixed in with wealthier kids?

Do you think wealthier kids need the "reality check" of a more diverse -- economically and racially -- school?

Does it just bother you on some gut level that there is a disparity of income in MoCo?

Genuine question.

MCPS is ALREADY busing for socioeconomic diversity. This is something that MCPS is ALREADY doing. MCPS is doing that, right now.

And yes, it's a well-established fact that poor kids do better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

Really? Where are they busing the kids from for SES diversity to Wootton or Churchill?

There was a thread a while back about busing, and some parent (a mom I'm guessing) said that she thought it was a bad idea because her Larla has been expecting a really expensive grand prom, and if they bused her to a poorer school then she would get her dreams crushed. And also, for the the lower ses kid, that kid might feel left out in the higher ses school because the kid can't afford the expensive first cars, lavish vacations, designer clothes, etc... And yes, the poster got flamed. But there are people out there that do think this way. Scary.

See 10:16 above. MCPS is already busing. BUSING EXISTS in Montgomery County. Just not in the super-affluent, super-white neighborhoods.

That's part of the problem. Why are the super affluent schools exempt from the busing?