Triplets in House Fire in Bethesda--Install Fire Detectors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fire was noticed before a smoke detector would have activated. Dad was inside the house when he was alerted to the fire.

Smoke detectors are pretty damn sensitive. I do not think anyone can say with 100% certainty if it would have gone off. If the kitchen or family room backed up to the porch and there had been detectors they would have gone off.

You are incorrect.

Source?

My source is being blessed with common sense. However, if you insist on something you can watch someone tell you, etc...I encourage you to check out Channel 9's extensive coverage of this event, to include a report on smoke detectors. Dad was in an office across the hall from the nursery when he was alerted to the fire by the nanny. There was so much smoke in the house at this time (not), that he thought she meant that the neighbor's house was on fire. Again, the fire started on the exterior of the house. It took a while for the fire to enter the house...and AGAIN, the fire was noticed before then. Smoke detectors alert people to fires. In this case, Dad was actually alerted before a smoke detector would have alerted him. His mistake was not getting the kids out immediately after he realized his own house was on fire, and trying to fight the fire himself instead of going back in the house immediately. People (not just you) on this thread are concentrating on the wrong thing, the smoke detectors, in their rush to judge and blame. That's unfortunate.

Ummm. Actually smoke detectors do not alert people to fires. Smoke detectors alert people to unusual levels of particulate matter in the air. Our smoke alarm near the bathroom goes off if there is excessive steam in the air outside the bathroom (like after a long steamy shower). Our smoke detector goes off when I use the oven cleaning function (which burns oven matter but doesn't cause either fire or smoke). It also goes off when I burn dinner (but w/o fire). Our fire detector often goes off when none of these things even makes anything more than a peculiar odor, i.e. it goes off when there is no discernable smoke in the air.

Guess what? When there is a fire, there is an unusual amount of "particulate matter in the air".....nice try though! This and your follow up post are some of the funniest of the thread...I had to pull up my boots for your second one though! LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously??? I'm sorry, but as a mother of two kids under 3, there is absolutely NO WAY my first reaction if I am told my home is on fire is not to get my kids out of the house. I don't need to have been in a fire to know this. Call me snarky all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that (1) 911 was not called for - what? - 15+ minutes after the nanny alerted the father to the fire and (2) that neither of them got the kids out first and foremost.

Yes, seriously. You really cannot know how you would react until you've been there. It is good to have a plan of action worked out ahead of time so that hopefully you will remember that plan. Many people have done "stupid" things when faced with an emergency. Not because they are stupid, but because it is extremely hard to think clearly when under this kind of stress. I think that I would definitely run to rescue my kid first if there was a fire, but I don't know for sure because I've never been in a situation where I've had to react that quickly with that kind of stress. I don't know that you really even have time to think which implies reasoning. Under stress like this, the part of your brain that does the "fight or flight" response takes over.

Fires can get out of hand quickly. When he first saw the fire, maybe it looked small, and his gut reaction was to try and put it out before it spread. It's not fair to judge this guy. It is fair to say what he did was a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to give to the fund...that would be nice. If you don't agree with it keep your comments to yourself and pray for the family and the firefighters. It is a better use of time and energy.

This is a public, online forum. The entire point of this website is to comment on things, including horrible things like this that occur. Please get off your high horse. Not all "judgmental" comments are worthless and even if they are, who cares? Ignore them! But suggesting that we should not comment simply b/c we disagree with you is ridiculous.

Ok continue on being mean...I need to get back on my high horse and pray for this family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you people are just plain mean.

Until I fully read the article, I too thought that there were no smoke detectors but the article says there there were detectors but they were being upgraded. Basically, this happened at a bad time, when the old detectors were down and the new ones were not up yet. It's not like these people just didn't have them. It is like when they were all taken down when our interior of our house was painted last year and then reinstalled.

Someone I know knows this family well and because of the bad timing where the new detectors were not up yet they might not be covered by insurance. Hence the fund.

So stop being mean, pray for the kids and recognize the hell that those parents are going through. I hope none of you ever have to go through this type of situation. They don't need your guilt or judgement.

If you want to give to the fund...that would be nice. If you don't agree with it keep your comments to yourself and pray for the family and the firefighters. It is a better use of time and energy.

Just curious...if they are covered by insurance, which they might be, will they refund people's contributions to the fund? If what you say is true, then that would only make sense.

I don't know because I really don't know them, someone I know knows them well. And at this time...I would not ask such a question.

The fund was set up so that basically people they know could find out info and give funds to help them through this time. Websites like this are common for people who are having hard times whether it is a fire, illness etc and is basically an easy way for people that want to help to help.

[Anonymous]

This is the OP. I posted this before and think its worth reiterating:

Please don't lose sight of the point of this post:

1. Please react responsibly and always put people before things in a fire situation (get people out, do not fight the fire yourself).

2. Maintain and check fire alarms in your home, especially outside of bedrooms.

3. Make a fire escape plan and think it through or practice.

That is really all that is relevant. Learn from others mistakes or misfortune, but don't waste energy or karma blaming anyone.

[Anonymous]

I read the kid are doing better today. And no matter what you think about who did what and when, it certainly was not the kids fault. And they are better and that is good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To all of the finger pointers, blamers, and Monday morning quarterbacks:

Smoke detectors, in this case, actually had little to no effect on the outcome of this incident. The father and the nanny were aware of the fire before a smoke detector in the home would have activated...IT STARTED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. But hey, if it makes people feel better about themselves to blame the poor father and nanny, then I guess that's the way it's going to be. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Of course, everyone should have a working smoke detector, that goes without saying.

Hate to tell you this, smoke detectors would have made a difference. How dexactly do you think the children were harmed? Smoke is a huge killer in fires, often not even the fire iteself. There was smoke and fire in the house, otherwise the father would have been able to get the children out after trying to fight the fire with a garden hose(seriously??? A garden hose? They didn’t even have a smoke detector. I am not going to fight a fire in my house especiallys with young children in it!)

Lots of stupid mistakes and the children and firefighters are paying for it the worst, but so is the family. But they do need to be held responsible, but that doesn't mean they deserve their children to be hurt. But it was a lot of bad decisions and some really bad luck. (Anyone mention anything about the hot tub wiring? What went wrong there that it cause the fire?)

We may not be perfect and we may not have been in the situation, but they made many mistakes and just plain stupid descisions.

[JurekGrabowski]

Hi all,

Thank you for posting about the triplets in Bethesda house fire. I was just reading all the comments and realized that much of the discussion on situation revolves around purchasing a smoke alarms. However that alone is not enough! In order to be truly prepared for a unfortunate fire event remember to:

Purchase smoke alarms. Smoke alarms are available at a variety of price points; they can be battery operated or electrically hard wired in your home.

Install the smoke alarms on every level of your home, including the basement, making sure that there is an alarm outside every separate sleeping area and in every bedroom.

Mount smoke alarms high on walls or ceilings (remember, smoke rises). Ceiling- mounted alarms should be installed at least four inches away from the nearest wall; wall-mounted alarms should be installed four to 12 inches away from the ceiling.

Test smoke alarms monthly; follow the manufacturer's instructions.

Replace smoke alarms batteries once a year, or as soon as the battery chirps warning that the battery is low. Replace batteries even if alarms are hardwired in case of a power outage.

Create and practice an escape route with your family. Mark the two ways out of every room, including doors and windows.

Choose a safe meeting place outside the home. Make sure to mark this on your escape plan.

Assign a person in the family to assist infants and older adults in the fire drill and in case of an emergency.

Once there is a fire, get out and stay out! Call 911 from a neighbor’s house.

There are a lot of resources out there including fire departments and Safe Kids Coalitions.

Take care,
Jurek Grabowski

[Anonymous]

nanny here.
I've been working with families for the past 5 years and only my most recent job went through their "scape plan" with me.

it really makes me wonder... how much we really care about safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all of the finger pointers, blamers, and Monday morning quarterbacks:

Smoke detectors, in this case, actually had little to no effect on the outcome of this incident. The father and the nanny were aware of the fire before a smoke detector in the home would have activated...IT STARTED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. But hey, if it makes people feel better about themselves to blame the poor father and nanny, then I guess that's the way it's going to be. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Of course, everyone should have a working smoke detector, that goes without saying.

Hate to tell you this, smoke detectors would have made a difference. How dexactly do you think the children were harmed? Smoke is a huge killer in fires, often not even the fire iteself. There was smoke and fire in the house, otherwise the father would have been able to get the children out after trying to fight the fire with a garden hose(seriously??? A garden hose? They didn’t even have a smoke detector. I am not going to fight a fire in my house especiallys with young children in it!)

Lots of stupid mistakes and the children and firefighters are paying for it the worst, but so is the family. But they do need to be held responsible, but that doesn't mean they deserve their children to be hurt. But it was a lot of bad decisions and some really bad luck. (Anyone mention anything about the hot tub wiring? What went wrong there that it cause the fire?)

We may not be perfect and we may not have been in the situation, but they made many mistakes and just plain stupid descisions.

They wouldn't have made a difference, because he was alerted to the fire before they would have gone off. He was in the room adjacent to the kids. What part of this is so hard to understand??? Unbelievable. As an aside, I would be shocked if the insurance company did not cover. Depending on when the home was built (I don't know), detectors were not required by code. All that said, obviously smoke detectors are important, but the lack of common sense for this particular case is unreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all of the finger pointers, blamers, and Monday morning quarterbacks:

Smoke detectors, in this case, actually had little to no effect on the outcome of this incident. The father and the nanny were aware of the fire before a smoke detector in the home would have activated...IT STARTED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. But hey, if it makes people feel better about themselves to blame the poor father and nanny, then I guess that's the way it's going to be. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Of course, everyone should have a working smoke detector, that goes without saying.

Hate to tell you this, smoke detectors would have made a difference. How dexactly do you think the children were harmed? Smoke is a huge killer in fires, often not even the fire iteself. There was smoke and fire in the house, otherwise the father would have been able to get the children out after trying to fight the fire with a garden hose(seriously??? A garden hose? They didn’t even have a smoke detector. I am not going to fight a fire in my house especiallys with young children in it!)

Lots of stupid mistakes and the children and firefighters are paying for it the worst, but so is the family. But they do need to be held responsible, but that doesn't mean they deserve their children to be hurt. But it was a lot of bad decisions and some really bad luck. (Anyone mention anything about the hot tub wiring? What went wrong there that it cause the fire?)

We may not be perfect and we may not have been in the situation, but they made many mistakes and just plain stupid descisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all of the finger pointers, blamers, and Monday morning quarterbacks:

Smoke detectors, in this case, actually had little to no effect on the outcome of this incident. The father and the nanny were aware of the fire before a smoke detector in the home would have activated...IT STARTED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. But hey, if it makes people feel better about themselves to blame the poor father and nanny, then I guess that's the way it's going to be. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Of course, everyone should have a working smoke detector, that goes without saying.

Hate to tell you this, smoke detectors would have made a difference. How dexactly do you think the children were harmed? Smoke is a huge killer in fires, often not even the fire iteself. There was smoke and fire in the house, otherwise the father would have been able to get the children out after trying to fight the fire with a garden hose(seriously??? A garden hose? They didn’t even have a smoke detector. I am not going to fight a fire in my house especiallys with young children in it!)

Lots of stupid mistakes and the children and firefighters are paying for it the worst, but so is the family. But they do need to be held responsible, but that doesn't mean they deserve their children to be hurt. But it was a lot of bad decisions and some really bad luck. (Anyone mention anything about the hot tub wiring? What went wrong there that it cause the fire?)

We may not be perfect and we may not have been in the situation, but they made many mistakes and just plain stupid descisions.

They wouldn't have made a difference, because he was alerted to the fire before they would have gone off. He was in the room adjacent to the kids. What part of this is so hard to understand??? Unbelievable. As an aside, I would be shocked if the insurance company did not cover. Depending on when the home was built (I don't know), detectors were not required by code. All that said, obviously smoke detectors are important, but the lack of common sense for this particular case is unreal.

I stand corrected on the second part of this post...Montgomery County does have a law that went into effect in '78 that requires detectors in all residential occupancies. However, I still maintain they would not have alerted the father before he found out...he was in the room across the hall & the fire was on the exterior of the house.

[Anonymous]

Since we're talking about safety, I encourage everyone to read a book called "The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes and Why." It really opened my eyes to how people actually react when bad things happen. In humans, the most common reaction to danger is not fight or flight, but freeze. But if you have rehearsed an escape plan, your improve your chances of acting rather than freezing. So make sure you have smoke detectors, for sure, but also rehearse what you'll do if a fire happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fire was noticed before a smoke detector would have activated. Dad was inside the house when he was alerted to the fire.

Smoke detectors are pretty damn sensitive. I do not think anyone can say with 100% certainty if it would have gone off. If the kitchen or family room backed up to the porch and there had been detectors they would have gone off.

You are incorrect.

Source?

My source is being blessed with common sense. However, if you insist on something you can watch someone tell you, etc...I encourage you to check out Channel 9's extensive coverage of this event, to include a report on smoke detectors. Dad was in an office across the hall from the nursery when he was alerted to the fire by the nanny. There was so much smoke in the house at this time (not), that he thought she meant that the neighbor's house was on fire. Again, the fire started on the exterior of the house. It took a while for the fire to enter the house...and AGAIN, the fire was noticed before then. Smoke detectors alert people to fires. In this case, Dad was actually alerted before a smoke detector would have alerted him. His mistake was not getting the kids out immediately after he realized his own house was on fire, and trying to fight the fire himself instead of going back in the house immediately. People (not just you) on this thread are concentrating on the wrong thing, the smoke detectors, in their rush to judge and blame. That's unfortunate.

Ummm. Actually smoke detectors do not alert people to fires. Smoke detectors alert people to unusual levels of particulate matter in the air. Our smoke alarm near the bathroom goes off if there is excessive steam in the air outside the bathroom (like after a long steamy shower). Our smoke detector goes off when I use the oven cleaning function (which burns oven matter but doesn't cause either fire or smoke). It also goes off when I burn dinner (but w/o fire). Our fire detector often goes off when none of these things even makes anything more than a peculiar odor, i.e. it goes off when there is no discernable smoke in the air.

Guess what? When there is a fire, there is an unusual amount of "particulate matter in the air".....nice try though! This and your follow up post are some of the funniest of the thread...I had to pull up my boots for your second one though! LOL

Wow, I don't know why you're so hostile. While you are correct that fires create particulate matter in the air, depending upon where any particular smoke detector is placed and what the environmental conditions are (air circulation in the house, doors open/closed), a smoke detector may or may not alert on a fire. This is the first "follow-up post" I've made, so I think you're conflating me with another poster. I tagged on here, just to point out that smoke detectors alert on particles in the air, and no one can really say whether they would or would not have alerted in a particular fire situation had they been working, without having a lot of detailed info on the fire and detector placement (more than is available in public news reports). A lot depends on placement, environmental characteristics and how the fire started.

Of course, this family would have had more of a chance of escape if detectors had been working than not -- how much more and what the outcome would have been is unknowable.

[Anonymous]

JurekGrabowski wrote:Hi all,

Thank you for posting about the triplets in Bethesda house fire. I was just reading all the comments and realized that much of the discussion on situation revolves around purchasing a smoke alarms. However that alone is not enough! In order to be truly prepared for a unfortunate fire event remember to:

Purchase smoke alarms. Smoke alarms are available at a variety of price points; they can be battery operated or electrically hard wired in your home.

Install the smoke alarms on every level of your home, including the basement, making sure that there is an alarm outside every separate sleeping area and in every bedroom.

Mount smoke alarms high on walls or ceilings (remember, smoke rises). Ceiling- mounted alarms should be installed at least four inches away from the nearest wall; wall-mounted alarms should be installed four to 12 inches away from the ceiling.

Test smoke alarms monthly; follow the manufacturer's instructions.

Replace smoke alarms batteries once a year, or as soon as the battery chirps warning that the battery is low. Replace batteries even if alarms are hardwired in case of a power outage.

Create and practice an escape route with your family. Mark the two ways out of every room, including doors and windows.

Choose a safe meeting place outside the home. Make sure to mark this on your escape plan.

Assign a person in the family to assist infants and older adults in the fire drill and in case of an emergency.

Once there is a fire, get out and stay out! Call 911 from a neighbor’s house.

There are a lot of resources out there including fire departments and Safe Kids Coalitions.

Take care,
Jurek Grabowski

And please, after all humans are safe, DON'T FORGET THE PETS (include pet carriers on your "plan")! If you have enough capable humans in your house, assign one for them as well