If your significant other is a partner at a big law firm, what time does he/she get home usually?

[Anonymous]

Former big law associate here. Now, fed attorney. I saw a lot of partners who took long lunches, long dinners, read the paper at their desk. They seemed to enjoy office time more than actual personal time. This led to other people working longer hours because if the boss takes a long late lunch, meetings start late, last longer.... Boss doesn't review work until after finishes long dinner and read the paper.... It seemed to me, the desire to stY at work or be in he office was stronger than going home. It wasn't that they wre always working but delaying which caused others to delay going home too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former big law associate here. Now, fed attorney. I saw a lot of partners who took long lunches, long dinners, read the paper at their desk. They seemed to enjoy office time more than actual personal time. This led to other people working longer hours because if the boss takes a long late lunch, meetings start late, last longer.... Boss doesn't review work until after finishes long dinner and read the paper.... It seemed to me, the desire to stY at work or be in he office was stronger than going home. It wasn't that they wre always working but delaying which caused others to delay going home too.

Once you make partner, you get to choose whether or not you spend your time this way, right? As spouse of an associate, it is my hope that though partnership doesn't lead to fewer hours, it leads to more autonomy. Essentially, you're not sitting there so some other guy can take a long lunch, you get to decide for yourself. And, I feel certain that my DH would come on home and choose to work after bedtime if he could. I know there are plenty of partners who work that way, while I suppose there are also plenty who do what you describe. But, let's not generalize everyone because of a few.


For the OP, I don't think it's for anyone else to weigh in on what is okay for YOUR family. You need to be at rights with your spouse's hours, and if you're not, you should have a conversation about it. Even if he can't change the hours, perhaps you could come up with another solution. FWIW, we are one of the morning/evening trade off families. DH does drop off in the mornings (so gets 2 hours each morning with the kids that way); I handle dinner and bedtime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Home at 7. Helps put kids to bed, then works more.

Makes breakfast. Leaves house at 9.

Makes $500K. Not a million but the kids spend time with him every day. I work too. More flexible hours and much less money. It is my job to order diapers, put away toys, etc.

So depending on his commute he is in the office from 10am to 6pm or so each day? Jeez, tell him never ever to leave that firm. That's the big law partner schedule unicorn.

[Anonymous]

To the "unicorn" commenter at 9:24: Just because her DH is at the office from 9:30-6:30 (9 hrs -- which if he's efficient, means he can bill 8.25 - 8.5), doesn't mean that he doesn't bill a few more hours in the evenings after the kids go to sleep, or on the weekends. Remember, this game is all about billable hours -- provided that you're not in a firm/practice area that has alot of face time requirements.

Signed,
Biglaw Senior Associate who leaves before 6 most days (but still bills 2400 hrs+/yr)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former big law associate here. Now, fed attorney. I saw a lot of partners who took long lunches, long dinners, read the paper at their desk. They seemed to enjoy office time more than actual personal time. This led to other people working longer hours because if the boss takes a long late lunch, meetings start late, last longer.... Boss doesn't review work until after finishes long dinner and read the paper.... It seemed to me, the desire to stY at work or be in he office was stronger than going home. It wasn't that they wre always working but delaying which caused others to delay going home too.

Once you make partner, you get to choose whether or not you spend your time this way, right? As spouse of an associate, it is my hope that though partnership doesn't lead to fewer hours, it leads to more autonomy. Essentially, you're not sitting there so some other guy can take a long lunch, you get to decide for yourself. And, I feel certain that my DH would come on home and choose to work after bedtime if he could. I know there are plenty of partners who work that way, while I suppose there are also plenty who do what you describe. But, let's not generalize everyone because of a few.


For the OP, I don't think it's for anyone else to weigh in on what is okay for YOUR family. You need to be at rights with your spouse's hours, and if you're not, you should have a conversation about it. Even if he can't change the hours, perhaps you could come up with another solution. FWIW, we are one of the morning/evening trade off families. DH does drop off in the mornings (so gets 2 hours each morning with the kids that way); I handle dinner and bedtime.

This is an incredibly sweet, yet incredibly naive post.


I agree with the associate above. There are a lot of people at the firm who are incredibly inefficient with the way in which they spend time. They do not work with an eye towards getting out of the door as soon as possible. Does every single person work like this? No, the problem is pervasive. And often is has nothing to do with the partner, and everything to do with the associate himself. While some of you like to imagine your spouses toiling away on wonderful society-enhancing work that they love at the direction of the mean, relentless overlord. It's not actually like that. Everyone posting wants to think their spouse and marriage are the exceptions. Maybe you are; I am skeptical that there so many exceptions and they are all writing into to DCUM.

I'm trying to find the gentlest words to respond to this idea that your husband will have more automony. He will be respond to more senior partners and to clients. Ask your husabnd if he can name one person who found that anytime in the first ten years of partnership led to more autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the "unicorn" commenter at 9:24: Just because her DH is at the office from 9:30-6:30 (9 hrs -- which if he's efficient, means he can bill 8.25 - 8.5), doesn't mean that he doesn't bill a few more hours in the evenings after the kids go to sleep, or on the weekends. Remember, this game is all about billable hours -- provided that you're not in a firm/practice area that has alot of face time requirements.

Signed,
Biglaw Senior Associate who leaves before 6 most days (but still bills 2400 hrs+/yr)

Looking around me, I am skeptical that most people are that efficient everyday. You are the exception, not the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the "unicorn" commenter at 9:24: Just because her DH is at the office from 9:30-6:30 (9 hrs -- which if he's efficient, means he can bill 8.25 - 8.5), doesn't mean that he doesn't bill a few more hours in the evenings after the kids go to sleep, or on the weekends. Remember, this game is all about billable hours -- provided that you're not in a firm/practice area that has alot of face time requirements.

Signed,
Biglaw Senior Associate who leaves before 6 most days (but still bills 2400 hrs+/yr)

Looking around me, I am skeptical that most people are that efficient everyday. You are the exception, not the rule.

AKA padding the timesheet.

[Anonymous]

To the "unicorn" commenter at 9:24: Just because her DH is at the office from 9:30-6:30 (9 hrs -- which if he's efficient, means he can bill 8.25 - 8.5), doesn't mean that he doesn't bill a few more hours in the evenings after the kids go to sleep, or on the weekends. Remember, this game is all about billable hours -- provided that you're not in a firm/practice area that has alot of face time requirements.

Signed,
Biglaw Senior Associate who leaves before 6 most days (but still bills 2400 hrs+/yr)

Aren't you really really tired from working so much at night or on down time during the weekends? Do you just not need much rest or downtime? I am honestly asking, not being judgmental. I'm an attorney for the feds but in a trial attorney position, and on the weeks (probably 1-2 a month) that I have to work a lot at home after hours and on the weekends, I feel really really exhausted (thought I never did before I had kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:17 you don't have to get nasty. And again, you miss the point. It's how people spend their time off, not how much they spend at work that matters in most cases. Yes, ideally parents are home by 4 PM like your DH and have dinner with the kids and put them to bed after listening to what's on their minds and then, once the kids are asleep, have wild, passionate sex with interesting, stimulating conversation every single night. But since that's not the reality for most of us - including, apparently, big law partners and their spouses, it does make sense to focus on how a working spouse is spending their time at home. If it's making breakfast for the kids, or at games on the weekends, or on family vacations, or time late night when they're home from work. And so if you have to choose, it is absolutely quality over quantity.

I didn't get nasty, and I didn't miss the point, and I never said our life is perfect in the way you describe.

I do agree that if you must choose, quality is more important than quantity. But I disagree that quality is enough, by itself, if the quantity is not there.

So true, but those pursuing the golden ring at all costs like to rationalize that "trade offs" (as mentioned by at least one PP) are necessary and acceptable.

By the same token, those who prattle on about how much better they are because they get home at 4 every day and how they simply couldn't bear to be apart from their children are often rationalizing their inability to achieve more success and pull themselves out of the drudgery of their daily existence.

(I don't really think that, I'm just trying to be as condescending and holier-than-thou as you and the PP. How'd I do?)

Well done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm trying to find the gentlest words to respond to this idea that your husband will have more automony. He will be respond to more senior partners and to clients. Ask your husabnd if he can name one person who found that anytime in the first ten years of partnership led to more autonomy.

Having autonomy (or not) and suggesting that every attorney who works long hours is intentionally being inefficient in order to avoid coming home are very different things. Clearly your perspective may be overly cynical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up with a Dad who chose a career like this. He missed so much. My childhood is gone now, i am middle-aged. My dad is making up for lost time in his retirement now. But you don't get those decades back.

Also, many marriages can survive 15 years like this, maybe, but few can survive 20 or 30. You will get out of your marriage what you put in. If you don't put TIME into relationships, you will one day have no relationship. You may stay married, but the depth of emotional intimacy will wane. That can become an opening for an affair (either emotional or physical) because one or both partners isn't have their emotional needs met within the marriage. They start blaming the other person, instead of looking at the life and choices they have made.

The idea that marriages can survive on a limited amount of "quality time" is a myth. You need quantity as well. You need the dailiness that makes up a relationship, the give-and-take, the time to be in the relaxed presence of your spouse.

At the end of life, what matters entirely is relationships. All the other stuff fades away. You are left with your spouse, your kids, etc. If you live to a very old age, you don't even have your friends or colleagues because they pass away. Eventually, it is your very closest loved ones who will sustain you. If you ignore them for decades, the relationship won't be close. I work as a hospice nurse. I see this every day, as people approach the end of life.

Every wise person, every saint, every sage in every religion has talked about this. It is all about relationships and about love. If you take a job that shortchanges that, you are not going to live as fully as you might have if you had placed people first in your life.

There is no amount of money or career satisfaction that is worth living this way. Take the long view and make some changes to that schedule. Find a way to pursue the work you love without shortchanging the people in your life. You only go around once.

Just my two cents.

Amen, sister! Agree 1000%.

[Anonymous]

Maybe if the wives of Biglaw attys didn't decide to SAH, there would be less pressure for them to put in face time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm trying to find the gentlest words to respond to this idea that your husband will have more automony. He will be respond to more senior partners and to clients. Ask your husabnd if he can name one person who found that anytime in the first ten years of partnership led to more autonomy.

Having autonomy (or not) and suggesting that every attorney who works long hours is intentionally being inefficient in order to avoid coming home are very different things. Clearly your perspective may be overly cynical.

I explicitly said that not every attorney is inefficient. Additionally, I did not conflate the concepts of efficiency and autonomy. You did; I addressed them separately. They both, however, are very important in assessing in the type of contribution a big firm lawyer makes in his/her home life.

My perspective comes working at a large law firm for over a decade. In that time, as you can probably imagine, I spent a fair amount of time trying to decide what I want my life to look like. And for that, I had to look at the lives and work habits of my colleagues. You call it overly cynical, but I call it clear-eyed based on experience.

How did you form the basis of your opinion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe if the wives of Biglaw attys didn't decide to SAH, there would be less pressure for them to put in face time?

Actually, my agreeing to be a SAHM for the time being has allowed my husband to excel tremendously in an area of law he loves without the pressure of having to divide household duties evenly. He's making over $2 million per year, which buys us a lot of freedom. If we both worked right now, we'd both probably go in-house or government, and depending on where we went, our income would probably decrease by over 50 percent, and neither of us would be working in a job we loved.

[Anonymous]

I don't pretend to have the answers, so I can't really judge. I think pretty much every situation is imperfect for the modern family and we do the best we can. Marriage with kids is really tough. It is hard to take care of the kids, the house and finances, ourselves, our marriage, and maybe other family members who need us.

I grew up with a CEO dad who worked and traveled insane hours. And then wanted time to unwind and play golf (which was also a business thing) and wanted time with his kids and wanted time with his wife. It was hard. My mom stayed home and took care of a lot. She admits now she was unhappy for a number of years, felt disconnected to my dad, etc., but they pulled through and it got better - now they are almost at 50 years of marriage, dad is retired, and they are best friends. And yes, the financial advantages were huge - no student loans, great vacations with family, and it's nice to have some security in case something happens (though we don't rely on my parent's money at all, other than letting them contribute a bit to college funds for grandkids and letting my mom buy clothes etc. when she wants to).

My marriage is different - we are both working and parenting. But still struggle to find time for each other and we have gone through phases where we are very disconnected. We do counseling which helps.

There are no perfect arrangements and circumstances dictate some things (your husband's field, yours, whether one parent wants to stay home, etc.). You just do the best you can and struggle throuhg tough times and enjoy the times that aren't so tough.