How does public assistance (welfare) work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you calling posters "dummies and uniformed" are blind to the fact that there are people who receive public assistand or disability and don't deserve it. It's called scamming the system. Yes, there are doctors and lawyers that know just how to go about getting one approved. Do you all think this a perfect little world and nothing like this ever happens?

Of course people scam the system. Whether it is public assistance or some other program. But, the answer is not to cancel such programs for people who play by the rules and have a real need. The answer is to go after the scammers and, perhaps, tighten eligibility and reporting. (But, your post is foolish in that you think SSA will accept on physician's word and grand disability benefits on that alone. That is simply not the case).

The poor or the lower middle class are not the only ones who scam the system by working it to their own benefit. Not by a LONG shot. Scamming the tax code, for example, is something widely practiced by people of wealth and large corporations. That affects the public fisc as well. Where is your outrage about that? (That is just one example.)

[Anonymous]

The thing is, no one really know if someone is scamming the system. I guess unless you have a family member or someone who just flat out admits it, you just don't know. I know you think you know, but you don't. I would think, though, that most people would agree that outright scamming the system is irritating and wrong and blah blah blah.
What's bothering me about this thread is that there seems to be this underlying tone or belief that poor people who are on public assistance need to suffer enough to satisfy you, the glorious ones, who pay taxes. That they somehow are personally accountable to you and should open up their wallets and let you inspect them, open up their lifestyle for your scrutiny, and you, the glorious ones who pay taxes, are entitled to every judgmental thought you have because you pay your taxes. I agree with the PPs who have said WE ALL benefit from government breaks, etc. and the large scale scammers are banks and large corporations, but they dress nice and look nice and are more pleasing to you all. Why don't they have to sufficiently suffer for you to "bless" them with their government assistance, because believe me, it's government assistance.
OP, you know nothing about this woman or where she got the money for anything you described. And she owes you nothing in way of explanation.

[Anonymous]

And for everyone you THINK is scamming the system, there is someone else who does not have a visible disability that rightfully needs to have the system and it takes them months to get the benefits they need. My wife and BIL have a genetic disorder that affects their vision. My BIL has never been able to drive, he once was legally blind, but a surgical procedure improved his vision to 20/125 in one eye and 20/200 in the other eye. He was no longer legally blind, so lost his handicapped benefits, but he couldn't drive, and still was low vision. Once he lost his handicapped benefits, his commute to work became much more expensive, it was harder for him to do certain things with out the benefits that he got as a visually handicapped person. It ended up easier for him to accept a disability retirement from his job. His disability retirement benefits were significantly lower than the full retirement he would have been eligible for in 5 years had he been able to work that much longer. And yet, for the most part, people cannot see his visual impairments (he compensate well even when he cannot see things clearly) and might think he was scamming the system if they didn't know better.

I also knew a person who had a disk problem in her back who had significant back pains that severely hampered her ability to work. Some days she would look completely normal and healthy. Other days, it was excruciating for her to just get out of bed and get herself ready to go to work. Even after multiple back surgeries, she still had problems. She had to miss so many days at work, she ended up retiring with SS disability payments. And many days, she would look healthy and normal, so people probably thought she was scamming the system if they knew she was getting disability payments. But when you have 50+ days a year when you have difficulty getting from the bedroom to the kitchen, it's a disability even when the other 300+ days you're a normally functioning adult.

[Anonymous]

Something I have noticed on this thread that I find interesting is that every single case of someone scamming the system involves a woman with 7 children. Quite a coincidence.

I'm going to assume that rather this is the number of children that is being thrown out by those who are fabricating stories on this thread. "What is a number of children that is wildly irresponsible but still low enough to be believeable...I know...7!"

[Anonymous]

what about drug testing for public assistance recipients? Would this help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, no one really know if someone is scamming the system. I guess unless you have a family member or someone who just flat out admits it, you just don't know. I know you think you know, but you don't. I would think, though, that most people would agree that outright scamming the system is irritating and wrong and blah blah blah.
What's bothering me about this thread is that there seems to be this underlying tone or belief that poor people who are on public assistance need to suffer enough to satisfy you, the glorious ones, who pay taxes. That they somehow are personally accountable to you and should open up their wallets and let you inspect them, open up their lifestyle for your scrutiny, and you, the glorious ones who pay taxes, are entitled to every judgmental thought you have because you pay your taxes. I agree with the PPs who have said WE ALL benefit from government breaks, etc. and the large scale scammers are banks and large corporations, but they dress nice and look nice and are more pleasing to you all. Why don't they have to sufficiently suffer for you to "bless" them with their government assistance, because believe me, it's government assistance.
OP, you know nothing about this woman or where she got the money for anything you described. And she owes you nothing in way of explanation.

Agreed. My former neighbor in St. Louis looked healthy and capable of working. She wasn't. She had a genetic heart defect and she wasn't long for this world. But I'm sure people thought she was scamming the system because she could physically walk from her car to a store, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what about drug testing for public assistance recipients? Would this help?

No.

http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief02/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what about drug testing for public assistance recipients? Would this help?

No.

http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief02/

Of course not. You should MYOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something I have noticed on this thread that I find interesting is that every single case of someone scamming the system involves a woman with 7 children. Quite a coincidence.

I'm going to assume that rather this is the number of children that is being thrown out by those who are fabricating stories on this thread. "What is a number of children that is wildly irresponsible but still low enough to be believeable...I know...7!"

It is the myth of the welfare queen. Whenever you want to stigmatize a group of people, you find a handful of people who are obviously repulsive and then pretend that they are representative of the population.

[Anonymous]

Ok - after feeling rather nauseous from reading this thread full of vitriol and self-riotousness, I feel compelled to share our true story from a food stamp and utlitlies help assistance famliy. We have three school aged kids. We have been married 25 years. All we have is each other.

We are both highly educated, my DH has an MBA an I have an MS in fine arts. I run my own business, which has been majorly hit by the recession - so not much money there. So I put on an apron and went to work for $11 per hour at a sandwich shop to fill in. Could only get 20 hours (they've been hit too) DH was unemployed for 2 years when we scrambled to get him contract jobs etc. Got a full time job with benefits (yay) in january a year ago. By Sept the company was sold and everyone was given the boot. Couldn't afford Cobra (2k) per month), so went and found independent insurance. Everyone received coverage but me, due to a past bout with melanoma. Yes they are legally required by law to give me coverage, but we couldn't afford their rates.

Extended family can hep a little, but not support us. Time to sign up for food stamps and utility assistance (getting tired of having gas/water/phone/heat shut off). A very byzantine and complicated process. Finally we have it, which combined with DH's limited unemployement insurance (due to run out), gives us a whopping $600 per month to live on. I make about $1200 per month, pre-tax. Take out the heath insurance ($400), care insurance (2 old cars paid for), food for five, including all luches (they don't like the the cafeteria lunches, which we now get for free - yes we are part of the dreaded FARMS now! and we manage to scrape by. You do the math. Could you do it?

So DH should just pull himself up by the boot straps and get a job, right? Show me where those finance jobs are. Or the retail jobs. Or any jobs. I'm lucky to get 20 hours a week if it's busy at the shop. And feeding five on $300 per month without doing fast food? Yeah, we are so working the system.

So you folks who have such disdain and hatred for those needing assistance. Or what appears to be working the system? I can pretty much guarantee they aren't having a swinging good time. We sure aren't. But I'm glad there are are still some saftey nets out there. And I sure hope this situation is very temporary. Oh, and our modest mortgage - can't pay it. will probably lose the house. Section 8 housing is pretty tough to come by, so who knows what we'll do?

Blessings to all, and please did deep for a little compassion. It could be your family next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok - after feeling rather nauseous from reading this thread full of vitriol and self-riotousness, I feel compelled to share our true story from a food stamp and utlitlies help assistance famliy. We have three school aged kids. We have been married 25 years. All we have is each other.

We are both highly educated, my DH has an MBA an I have an MS in fine arts. I run my own business, which has been majorly hit by the recession - so not much money there. So I put on an apron and went to work for $11 per hour at a sandwich shop to fill in. Could only get 20 hours (they've been hit too) DH was unemployed for 2 years when we scrambled to get him contract jobs etc. Got a full time job with benefits (yay) in january a year ago. By Sept the company was sold and everyone was given the boot. Couldn't afford Cobra (2k) per month), so went and found independent insurance. Everyone received coverage but me, due to a past bout with melanoma. Yes they are legally required by law to give me coverage, but we couldn't afford their rates.

Extended family can hep a little, but not support us. Time to sign up for food stamps and utility assistance (getting tired of having gas/water/phone/heat shut off). A very byzantine and complicated process. Finally we have it, which combined with DH's limited unemployement insurance (due to run out), gives us a whopping $600 per month to live on. I make about $1200 per month, pre-tax. Take out the heath insurance ($400), care insurance (2 old cars paid for), food for five, including all luches (they don't like the the cafeteria lunches, which we now get for free - yes we are part of the dreaded FARMS now! and we manage to scrape by. You do the math. Could you do it?

So DH should just pull himself up by the boot straps and get a job, right? Show me where those finance jobs are. Or the retail jobs. Or any jobs. I'm lucky to get 20 hours a week if it's busy at the shop. And feeding five on $300 per month without doing fast food? Yeah, we are so working the system.

So you folks who have such disdain and hatred for those needing assistance. Or what appears to be working the system? I can pretty much guarantee they aren't having a swinging good time. We sure aren't. But I'm glad there are are still some saftey nets out there. And I sure hope this situation is very temporary. Oh, and our modest mortgage - can't pay it. will probably lose the house. Section 8 housing is pretty tough to come by, so who knows what we'll do?

Blessings to all, and please did deep for a little compassion. It could be your family next.

PP, this is very sad to hear. I feel for you and your family and I hope things turn around for you in 2012. IMO you are the type of family in a real tough situation and truly need the assistance. There are many families that truly need it and I don't have a problem with that at all. What I do have a problem with are the people that abuse the system, after getting everything for free are ungrateful, feel entitled and even if given a chance would rather do nothing and continue receiving free services. I say this because I know of such people and some are in my family. There are stories on this thread of such instances and more in real life. As you say, you "hope this situation is temporary" but some see the assistance as a paycheck for life and have no problem with it. (my family) I hate that attitude because I also know there are families like yours or who just make a tad bit over the cut-off to be able to receive assistance and they would appreciate it and need it also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, no one really know if someone is scamming the system. I guess unless you have a family member or someone who just flat out admits it, you just don't know. I know you think you know, but you don't. I would think, though, that most people would agree that outright scamming the system is irritating and wrong and blah blah blah.
What's bothering me about this thread is that there seems to be this underlying tone or belief that poor people who are on public assistance need to suffer enough to satisfy you, the glorious ones, who pay taxes. That they somehow are personally accountable to you and should open up their wallets and let you inspect them, open up their lifestyle for your scrutiny, and you, the glorious ones who pay taxes, are entitled to every judgmental thought you have because you pay your taxes. I agree with the PPs who have said WE ALL benefit from government breaks, etc. and the large scale scammers are banks and large corporations, but they dress nice and look nice and are more pleasing to you all. Why don't they have to sufficiently suffer for you to "bless" them with their government assistance, because believe me, it's government assistance.
OP, you know nothing about this woman or where she got the money for anything you described. And she owes you nothing in way of explanation.

Agreed. My former neighbor in St. Louis looked healthy and capable of working. She wasn't. She had a genetic heart defect and she wasn't long for this world. But I'm sure people thought she was scamming the system because she could physically walk from her car to a store, etc.

Oops. I was agreeing with 13:21.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok - after feeling rather nauseous from reading this thread full of vitriol and self-riotousness, I feel compelled to share our true story from a food stamp and utlitlies help assistance famliy. We have three school aged kids. We have been married 25 years. All we have is each other.

We are both highly educated, my DH has an MBA an I have an MS in fine arts. I run my own business, which has been majorly hit by the recession - so not much money there. So I put on an apron and went to work for $11 per hour at a sandwich shop to fill in. Could only get 20 hours (they've been hit too) DH was unemployed for 2 years when we scrambled to get him contract jobs etc. Got a full time job with benefits (yay) in january a year ago. By Sept the company was sold and everyone was given the boot. Couldn't afford Cobra (2k) per month), so went and found independent insurance. Everyone received coverage but me, due to a past bout with melanoma. Yes they are legally required by law to give me coverage, but we couldn't afford their rates.

Extended family can hep a little, but not support us. Time to sign up for food stamps and utility assistance (getting tired of having gas/water/phone/heat shut off). A very byzantine and complicated process. Finally we have it, which combined with DH's limited unemployement insurance (due to run out), gives us a whopping $600 per month to live on. I make about $1200 per month, pre-tax. Take out the heath insurance ($400), care insurance (2 old cars paid for), food for five, including all luches (they don't like the the cafeteria lunches, which we now get for free - yes we are part of the dreaded FARMS now! and we manage to scrape by. You do the math. Could you do it?

So DH should just pull himself up by the boot straps and get a job, right? Show me where those finance jobs are. Or the retail jobs. Or any jobs. I'm lucky to get 20 hours a week if it's busy at the shop. And feeding five on $300 per month without doing fast food? Yeah, we are so working the system.

So you folks who have such disdain and hatred for those needing assistance. Or what appears to be working the system? I can pretty much guarantee they aren't having a swinging good time. We sure aren't. But I'm glad there are are still some saftey nets out there. And I sure hope this situation is very temporary. Oh, and our modest mortgage - can't pay it. will probably lose the house. Section 8 housing is pretty tough to come by, so who knows what we'll do?

Blessings to all, and please did deep for a little compassion. It could be your family next.

PP, this is very sad to hear. I feel for you and your family and I hope things turn around for you in 2012. IMO you are the type of family in a real tough situation and truly need the assistance. There are many families that truly need it and I don't have a problem with that at all. What I do have a problem with are the people that abuse the system, after getting everything for free are ungrateful, feel entitled and even if given a chance would rather do nothing and continue receiving free services. I say this because I know of such people and some are in my family. There are stories on this thread of such instances and more in real life. As you say, you "hope this situation is temporary" but some see the assistance as a paycheck for life and have no problem with it. (my family) I hate that attitude because I also know there are families like yours or who just make a tad bit over the cut-off to be able to receive assistance and they would appreciate it and need it also.

NP here. This is what makes me sick. The responses of "oh, it's OK for YOU. You seem like a good candidate. The system is GREAT for you." Of course it is. The PP doesn't need your ridiculous stamp of approval that she's deserving of public assistance. You are so disgusting that you think your judgments matter or that you have some magic 8 ball that allows you tell the difference between those you deem worthy and those you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok - after feeling rather nauseous from reading this thread full of vitriol and self-riotousness, I feel compelled to share our true story from a food stamp and utlitlies help assistance famliy. We have three school aged kids. We have been married 25 years. All we have is each other.

We are both highly educated, my DH has an MBA an I have an MS in fine arts. I run my own business, which has been majorly hit by the recession - so not much money there. So I put on an apron and went to work for $11 per hour at a sandwich shop to fill in. Could only get 20 hours (they've been hit too) DH was unemployed for 2 years when we scrambled to get him contract jobs etc. Got a full time job with benefits (yay) in january a year ago. By Sept the company was sold and everyone was given the boot. Couldn't afford Cobra (2k) per month), so went and found independent insurance. Everyone received coverage but me, due to a past bout with melanoma. Yes they are legally required by law to give me coverage, but we couldn't afford their rates.

Extended family can hep a little, but not support us. Time to sign up for food stamps and utility assistance (getting tired of having gas/water/phone/heat shut off). A very byzantine and complicated process. Finally we have it, which combined with DH's limited unemployement insurance (due to run out), gives us a whopping $600 per month to live on. I make about $1200 per month, pre-tax. Take out the heath insurance ($400), care insurance (2 old cars paid for), food for five, including all luches (they don't like the the cafeteria lunches, which we now get for free - yes we are part of the dreaded FARMS now! and we manage to scrape by. You do the math. Could you do it?

So DH should just pull himself up by the boot straps and get a job, right? Show me where those finance jobs are. Or the retail jobs. Or any jobs. I'm lucky to get 20 hours a week if it's busy at the shop. And feeding five on $300 per month without doing fast food? Yeah, we are so working the system.

So you folks who have such disdain and hatred for those needing assistance. Or what appears to be working the system? I can pretty much guarantee they aren't having a swinging good time. We sure aren't. But I'm glad there are are still some saftey nets out there. And I sure hope this situation is very temporary. Oh, and our modest mortgage - can't pay it. will probably lose the house. Section 8 housing is pretty tough to come by, so who knows what we'll do?

Blessings to all, and please did deep for a little compassion. It could be your family next.

Thanks for posting; it must have been difficult, but people needed to hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Blessings to all, and please did deep for a little compassion. It could be your family next.

PP, this is very sad to hear. I feel for you and your family and I hope things turn around for you in 2012. IMO you are the type of family in a real tough situation and truly need the assistance. There are many families that truly need it and I don't have a problem with that at all. What I do have a problem with are the people that abuse the system, after getting everything for free are ungrateful, feel entitled and even if given a chance would rather do nothing and continue receiving free services. I say this because I know of such people and some are in my family. There are stories on this thread of such instances and more in real life. As you say, you "hope this situation is temporary" but some see the assistance as a paycheck for life and have no problem with it. (my family) I hate that attitude because I also know there are families like yours or who just make a tad bit over the cut-off to be able to receive assistance and they would appreciate it and need it also.

Mighty omnipotent of you to give your stamp of approval. Are you omniscient also, and know who is or isn't deserving.