Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

Bottom line: standardized test scores matter wrt college admissions (but they're more likely to work to disqualify a kid than to get the kid admitted), but doing well in a top tier college requires a different skillset.

What does your conclusion have to do with the issue of unfettered and transparent access to this information (test scores and the educational performance of students)?

Please do not assume anyone is asking for personal student identifiers. We are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It IS difficult, as someone new to the independent school search process to figure out the "nature" of the different schools, but there are many varieties of good.

I agree. This is precisely why transparency with regards important outcome variables (tests scores, college placements) (NFL placements for others) is better than not. A free marketplace requires the lack of information barriers (unfettered access to information). Let the marketplace decide ( in typical American parlance).

This is where your insistence on transparency goes off the rails. A free marketplace absolutely does not require unfettered access to information. That occurs only in some hypothetical "perfect market." In the free market, asymmetry of information is commonplace. Buyers and sellers are rarely transparent with one another, and when it occurs, it's usually because government regulations require disclosure of certain limited information (not even fully transparency).

[Anonymous]

10:05: No, I cannot understand you. Your post is close to gibberish to me.

Explain your decision-making process, and how average SAT scores will help you.

Whatever your decision-making process is, I have no objections to it -- you should do what's right for you. But I don't need to agree with you that schools should release their scores, or that other parents should support your demands for scores.

You don't get the concept.

I'll try again. It's absolutely irrelevant and immaterial how average SAT scores (or other educational outcome variables) may help me or you, or the children with accommodation needs, or the children functioning in the profoundly gifted range, or the children desiring to move on to highly selective colleges, or children desiring Podunk U, or the children desiring a lacrosse scholarship, or the children waiting for the magic age of 18 to inherit granddad's inheritance trust fund? Average SAT scores may help some in this group ... and not others.

How many American citizens with voting rights actually vote in elections? If that number is paltry should we do away with voting?

Because, in your world view, you find no use for the knowledge of test scores of the schools you choose to attend does not translate to truth for all other parents.

A simple concept.

It is irrelevant how that information helps me.

[Anonymous]

Whatever your decision-making process is, I have no objections to it -- you should do what's right for you. But I don't need to agree with you that schools should release their scores, or that other parents should support your demands for scores.

We are fully aware we cannot legally force private schools to release information about academic and educational test performance of their students or teachers or leadership of their schools. This does not imply this information is not relevant or useful for students and parents in their decision-making process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And two at most who oppose seeing scores (unless it's just you sock puppetting yourself).

Way more than two people. I have posted maybe three or four times on this whole thread so I know that the vast majority of posts disagreeing with OP come from different people.

[Anonymous]

This is where your insistence on transparency goes off the rails. A free marketplace absolutely does not require unfettered access to information. That occurs only in some hypothetical "perfect market." In the free market, asymmetry of information is commonplace. Buyers and sellers are rarely transparent with one another, and when it occurs, it's usually because government regulations require disclosure of certain limited information (not even fully transparency).

You've proved my point. A free or perfect marketplace is the ideal America tries to achieve. When marketplaces fail; it's because of issues like asymmetry of information.

Thanks for the lesson in rudimentary economics. I gather you too recognize a free marketplace is preferable to one imprisoned by asymmetry of information.

This asymmetry of information about educational outcomes is precisely why it's better to have unfettered access to this data for families in the school marketplace. As some posters have said (we already know about the schools) we don't need the information; and others, who don't know about the schools want all the information they can get their hands on.

Do you get the concept yet?

[Anonymous]

Just a thought - public companies are required to report much more information than private companies - it is part of the burden of being public vs. private. Amazon is private - but clearly it is a good company - better than most. When people get what they want, they don't need to concern themselves with what others are experiencing. If information and disclosure is what you are seeking - go public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Bottom line: standardized test scores matter wrt college admissions (but they're more likely to work to disqualify a kid than to get the kid admitted), but doing well in a top tier college requires a different skillset.

What does your conclusion have to do with the issue of unfettered and transparent access to this information (test scores and the educational performance of students)?

Please do not assume anyone is asking for personal student identifiers. We are not.

I'm the person whom you quoted and I'm not concerned about personal identifiers.

And I don't think that there is an issue about unfetter and transparent access to infomation beyond you have no right to it and they have no obligation to provide it.

The comment of mine you quoted was contributing to the discussion explaining why a number of us believe that standardized test scores are not a particularly useful measure of school performance (and a rebuttal of the what really matters is not learning how to discuss literature but filling in the right goose egg with your number 2 pencil approach to education espoused by a PP).

If decisions not to make median SAT scores public keep parents who feel that standardized tests best reflect what will be demanded of their children in the real world out of my DC's private school, I'm only too happy. There's a kind of Gradgrindian consumerism represented here that I don't want to see driving educational policy in any environment where my kid is learning. As PPs have suggested, I've got no problem evaluating whether DC is being well taught -- I see DC's classwork and test scores regularly. No lack of transparency for current parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you get the concept yet?

No, I don't. Your posts are still not making sense.

(1) You say "it's irrelevant how that information helps me." You argue that whatever info anyone might want (SAT scores, college results, athletic outcomes, diversity, height, weight, eye color, etc etc etc) should be transparently available simply because someone somewhere might find it useful. Why should schools disclose this detail? You agree that private schools cannot be required to disclose all the info anybody might want. So where are you going with all this?

(2) You're not hearing me on free market versus perfect market. They're very different animals, and a perfect market is not some ideal that America is trying to achieve. Participants in any market have different interests in information disclosure. You want all schools to disclose their private information to you, so you can use it in making decisions among schools. But will you make the same unfettered disclosures to the schools? Will you disclose (for example) that even though your daughter scored highly on some admission test, she actually spent 300 hours prepping for that test with $3000 worth of materials? Will you disclose that she has trouble sitting still for long periods and can sometimes be rude to adults? Will you disclose that although your son was a star on his 7th and 8th grade cross-country team, he actually has been experiencing some knee trouble lately and doctors think he might have a degenerative condition? Should all parents be required to disclose such details?

[Anonymous]

Are you excluding yourself from this consumerism?

Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is irrelevant how that information helps me.

No, it isn't. There have been quite a few posts form parents who are concerned that if schools released this information it could be distorting to their mission. So if you want to take that on, risk that, you should offer up a good reason. You haven't. You just say "I want it, so i should have it." Fortunately, it doesn't work that way.

I find in general that schools that allow parents to make demands falter. This is a bit of a digression, but schools need to be responsive in the classrooms to individual students and their needs, communicate well with parents, but keep parents and their little demands at arms' length.

We have a very vocal parent here who wants some kind of public score keeping. Fortunately most schools know better.

[Anonymous]

NP here. Really, I find this thread interesting in that it is so combative. My DD will be applying to boarding schools next year, so the discussion is really academic to me (no pun intended), but I can say that when I look at possible schools to apply to, I find it helpful to see what the SAT scores are for each school. It gives us an idea which schools are ranked where, academically. OBVIOUSLY, we will be visiting campuses and getting a feel for each school and doing all of the things you do, but if one school's median SAT scores are 2000 points lower than another's it gives you a guide, that's all. And no, OF COURSE they don't publicize individual scores. Comments like that are meant to inflame. Please. Whatever side of the discussion (and it should be a discussion, why are people arguing?) you're on, either agree that information is a positive thing or an unnecessary thing and leave it at that. For me, it is proving helpful in this case. If it doesn't for you, you can ignore it, if you come across it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Really, I find this thread interesting in that it is so combative. My DD will be applying to boarding schools next year, so the discussion is really academic to me (no pun intended), but I can say that when I look at possible schools to apply to, I find it helpful to see what the SAT scores are for each school. It gives us an idea which schools are ranked where, academically. OBVIOUSLY, we will be visiting campuses and getting a feel for each school and doing all of the things you do, but if one school's median SAT scores are 2000 points lower than another's it gives you a guide, that's all. And no, OF COURSE they don't publicize individual scores. Comments like that are meant to inflame. Please. Whatever side of the discussion (and it should be a discussion, why are people arguing?) you're on, either agree that information is a positive thing or an unnecessary thing and leave it at that. For me, it is proving helpful in this case. If it doesn't for you, you can ignore it, if you come across it.

The OP wanted to know why parent don't demand the scores. We have expressed varied reasons why we don't demand the scores yet the OP can't for the life of her understand why.

If reminds me of my 2 yr old ... Can I have a cookie? No. Why? Because we are eating dinner soon. Why? Because I want you to eat healthy food first. Why? Because it makes you healthy. Why? Because I said so.

Why don't you demand scores? Because it is irrelevant. Why? Because we visit the schools. Why? To get the best fit. But aren't scores better? No to me. Why not? Because I said so.

[Anonymous]

(1) You say "it's irrelevant how that information helps me." You argue that whatever info anyone might want (SAT scores, college results, athletic outcomes, diversity, height, weight, eye color, etc etc etc) should be transparently available simply because someone somewhere might find it useful. Why should schools disclose this detail? You agree that private schools cannot be required to disclose all the info anybody might want. So where are you going with all this?

(2) You're not hearing me on free market versus perfect market. They're very different animals, and a perfect market is not some ideal that America is trying to achieve. Participants in any market have different interests in information disclosure. You want all schools to disclose their private information to you, so you can use it in making decisions among schools. But will you make the same unfettered disclosures to the schools? Will you disclose (for example) that even though your daughter scored highly on some admission test, she actually spent 300 hours prepping for that test with $3000 worth of materials? Will you disclose that she has trouble sitting still for long periods and can sometimes be rude to adults? Will you disclose that although your son was a star on his 7th and 8th grade cross-country team, he actually has been experiencing some knee trouble lately and doctors think he might have a degenerative condition? Should all parents be required to disclose such details?

Summary: Nonsense

What is the difference between a free and a perfect market?

Is an imperfect market free?

[Anonymous]

The OP wanted to know why parent don't demand the scores. We have expressed varied reasons why we don't

demand

the scores yet the OP can't for the life of her understand why.

If reminds me of my 2 yr old ... Can I have a cookie? No. Why? Because we are eating dinner soon. Why? Because I want you to eat healthy food first. Why? Because it makes you healthy. Why? Because I said so.

Why don't you demand scores? Because it is irrelevant. Why? Because we visit the schools. Why? To get the best fit. But aren't scores better? No to me. Why not? Because I said so.

Oh really!!! The first use of the verb demand in this thread. Please read and attribute correctly.

You still do not understand the concept.

Information about school educational outcomes is not a bad thing for parents and students deciding on which schools to attend. While this information, and likely most, is of no use to you; others find this type of information useful and nonthreatening. As of now one can't legally force D.C. area private schools to provide any information about how their students perform in school. The schools do issue transcripts to either student (in some cases parents) but by law I do not believe this is a requirement (despite the fact this information may be of use to some).

Are you getting it yet?