Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Many of us that are 3rd generation private school parents and private school attendees could care less. Transparency is no threat.

This poster is probably a nouveau private school parent which explains her angst.

LMAO! This has got to be the most ridiculous in a long list of ridiculous posts that the transparency-fearers have made. Would it kill you if I told you that my ancestors came over on the Mayflower? It's true. And we have a long tradition of education in my family, including several professors. And yet I support transparency, for everybody. I suspect that this strong interest in education is shared by the other, apparently highly-educated (several economists) supporters of transparency.

Let's make a list of the stupidest defenses of withholding test scores made on this thread to date:

1. Transparency is "different" for private schools.
2. If we release test scores, that's all that anybody will take into consideration. Never again will parents consider whether a school is also a good fit, or the right "personality" for their families, or strong in arts or sciences or sports. All these other considerations will instantly go out the window.
3. Asymmetry of information is OK, as long as it concerns the single most important investment we will make, i.e. our kids' educations.
4. We want our kids to be miserable test drudges instead of happy and well-adjusted. Because this is the only possible consequence of releasing test scores.
5. Schools do not currently teach to the test. (Hello, our K-6 gave SSAT prep.)
6. Withholding information is like eating spinach, you do it "because I told you so."
7. This is not the government, so we shouldn't do it.
8. This is all driven by OP and there are no other posters on this thread supporting OP.
9. Schools release tuition and location, why isn't this enough?
10. Schools don't release it, so you should shut up and stop asking for it.
11. If I don't need it, then you can't have it.

Every single one of these simply defies logic. The one in quotes at the top gets my vote for "stupidest," though.

Anybody else got other favorites?

[Anonymous]

I am not the PP I was "defending." She was responding to some rant that opponents of this idea had given no reasons by saying reasons have been given over and over and Op just wasn't listening. That was her point. There, i spelled it out for you since you obviously didn't get it.

Your numbers are interesting since you seem to be concluding most of those opposed are the same person, such as that i was the same as the poster using the spinach metaphor, and that those in favor are not posting over and over again. I;m confused by what you are referring to by the [hrase "you don't even know this is true." That what is true? My DC's schools SAT scores? of course I don't know what they are, they aren't public. And I don't care.

Hey, those of you who think this is a great idea, why don't you go and form a PAC, or a blue ribbon commission? Better yet, direct action! A sit-in at the various private schools. Fight the power. DEMAND a brighter future where ALL God's children, or at least those that can afford private school tuition, will have the FREEDOM to pursue SAT scores to their heart's content.

This action is not necessary. Most area private schools are losing their luster (over the last decade) and competitive edge and spirit. This is bound to continue. Only a few will survive as quality schools providing outstanding education. More secrecy will simply hasten their demise. It's not necessary to form a PAC or blue ribbon commission. Transparency about matters related to educational performance outcomes is always preferable for the American consumer of private school educational services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Let's make a list of the stupidest defenses of withholding test scores made on this thread to date:

1. Transparency is "different" for private schools.
2. If we release test scores, that's all that anybody will take into consideration. Never again will parents consider whether a school is also a good fit, or the right "personality" for their families, or strong in arts or sciences or sports. All these other considerations will instantly go out the window.
3. Asymmetry of information is OK, as long as it concerns the single most important investment we will make, i.e. our kids' educations.
4. We want our kids to be miserable test drudges instead of happy and well-adjusted. Because this is the only possible consequence of releasing test scores.
5. Schools do not currently teach to the test. (Hello, our K-6 gave SSAT prep.)
6. Withholding information is like eating spinach, you do it "because I told you so."
7. This is not the government, so we shouldn't do it.
8. This is all driven by OP and there are no other posters on this thread supporting OP.
9. Schools release tuition and location, why isn't this enough?
10. Schools don't release it, so you should shut up and stop asking for it.
11. If I don't need it, then you can't have it.

Every single one of these simply defies logic. The one in quotes at the top gets my vote for "stupidest," though.

Anybody else got other favorites?

12. If you want test scores, go public. This goes hand-in-hand with the ad nauseum repetition about how transparency-supporters only care about test scores, not about fit, specials, or anything else.

[Anonymous]

20:44 here. Ooops, I realize the "nouveau riche" poster is on my side. Actually, it makes sense, because old money is definitely more likely to be comfortable with transparency than the reverse. Although I'm still a bit embarrassed by her post.

[Anonymous]

LMAO! This has got to be the most ridiculous in a long list of ridiculous posts that the transparency-fearers have made. Would it kill you if I told you that my ancestors came over on the Mayflower? It's true. And we have a long tradition of education in my family, including several professors. And yet I support transparency, for everybody. I suspect that this strong interest in education is shared by the other, apparently highly-educated (several economists) supporters of transparency.

Let's make a list of the stupidest defenses of withholding test scores made on this thread to date:

1. Transparency is "different" for private schools.
2. If we release test scores, that's all that anybody will take into consideration. Never again will parents consider whether a school is also a good fit, or the right "personality" for their families, or strong in arts or sciences or sports. All these other considerations will instantly go out the window.
3. Asymmetry of information is OK, as long as it concerns the single most important investment we will make, i.e. our kids' educations.
4. We want our kids to be miserable test drudges instead of happy and well-adjusted. Because this is the only possible consequence of releasing test scores.
5. Schools do not currently teach to the test. (Hello, our K-6 gave SSAT prep.)
6. Withholding information is like eating spinach, you do it "because I told you so."
7. This is not the government, so we shouldn't do it.
8. This is all driven by OP and there are no other posters on this thread supporting OP.
9. Schools release tuition and location, why isn't this enough?
10. Schools don't release it, so you should shut up and stop asking for it.
11. If I don't need it, then you can't have it.

Every single one of these simply defies logic. The one in quotes at the top gets my vote for "stupidest," though.

Anybody else got other favorites?

Your illiterate ancestors came over on the Mayflower. Unfortunately, some of their descedents remain illiterate even today.

Many consumers of private school educational services today would like to evaluate metrics related to the performance of students at particular school of interest (after all the schools keep some of these students for up to 12 years for 6 to 9 hours/day) to help parents and students reach application and matriculation decisions. These metrics would include variables like SAT and AP exam performance. A desire to want to compare this information seems natural and not anomalous. Private schools should understand this. They do. Some, even, would withhold such information if they perceived it may hurt their competitive advantage in the educational marketplace. This is a business afterall.

[jsteele]

This poster is probably a nouveau private school parent which explains her angst.

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean rookie?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, in more ways than one.

This poster is having a conversation with him or herself. This is not the first time that I have observed this poster sock puppeting.

I am not sure what kind of person obsesses over private school data in this manner, but I am pretty sure that I would not want to be seated next to this poster at a dinner party. Please poster, give us all a break. Find a hobby that is more intellectually stimulating such as calculating the time required for paint to dry while you watch it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Many of us that are 3rd generation private school parents and private school attendees could care less. Transparency is no threat.

This poster is probably a nouveau private school parent which explains her angst.

LMAO! This has got to be the most ridiculous in a long list of ridiculous posts that the transparency-fearers have made. Would it kill you if I told you that my ancestors came over on the Mayflower? It's true. And we have a long tradition of education in my family, including several professors. And yet I support transparency, for everybody. I suspect that this strong interest in education is shared by the other, apparently highly-educated (several economists) supporters of transparency.

Let's make a list of the stupidest defenses of withholding test scores made on this thread to date:

1. Transparency is "different" for private schools.
2. If we release test scores, that's all that anybody will take into consideration. Never again will parents consider whether a school is also a good fit, or the right "personality" for their families, or strong in arts or sciences or sports. All these other considerations will instantly go out the window.
3. Asymmetry of information is OK, as long as it concerns the single most important investment we will make, i.e. our kids' educations.
4. We want our kids to be miserable test drudges instead of happy and well-adjusted. Because this is the only possible consequence of releasing test scores.
5. Schools do not currently teach to the test. (Hello, our K-6 gave SSAT prep.)
6. Withholding information is like eating spinach, you do it "because I told you so."
7. This is not the government, so we shouldn't do it.
8. This is all driven by OP and there are no other posters on this thread supporting OP.
9. Schools release tuition and location, why isn't this enough?
10. Schools don't release it, so you should shut up and stop asking for it.
11. If I don't need it, then you can't have it.

Every single one of these simply defies logic. The one in quotes at the top gets my vote for "stupidest," though.

Anybody else got other favorites?

And the point of all this is what? A debate?

I'd suggest you pay attention to your #10 above. I can't see anything illogical about that. It's a statement of fact.

Nobody on this forum has the power to do anything about this. I suggest you talk to the schools.

Tell them your ancestors came over on the Mayflower. That'll impress them.

[Anonymous]

It certainly impressed me.

The authority of the Mayflower. This has a good ring to it.

By the authority vested in the Mayflower. Private ("non-profit") schools are not obligated to release outcome performance metrics/scores for their students. These scores are useless. It is not advisable for parents to include such information in their decision-making tree.

For all new enrolled students full payment of tuition ($32,000) is due in 30 days. Failure to remit fees may result in the student not allowed to attend to classes.

This weekend families are strongly encouraged to attend the quarterly fundraiser.

Your generosity is greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm very happy/impressed with DC's private school -- it's an enclave from a broader culture that's obsessed with branding. I'm confident DC's getting a good education and your opinion (as well as the opinion of people whose impression of the school would be based primarily on standardized test scores) doesn't matter to me. The risk isn't that publicizing the school's test scores would diminish its reputation -- it's more that it would attract standardized-test-score-obsessed parents whose demands would be at odds with what I value most about the school. Ultimately, i think that what I value about the school would endure, but I'd rather see the school focus on furthering its mission than devote a lot of effort to dealing with parents whose primary focus is on test scores. So, again, if the lack of external transparency drives those parents away, I'd think that the form of self-selection works well for all concerned.

Are you afraid of these parents or their children? Are your children afraid of the children of these parents? Why? Sounds typical of those afraid to compete fair and square in the classroom.

Should your private school only attract competitive lacrosse, football and soccer players and violinists?

What's the admission office for if it can't simply reject applicants interested in academic outcome performance metrics over those with low 200 IM swim times or high SES?

Actually, DC's school doesn't have 3 of the 4 sports mentioned and no orchestra. We chose the school based on academics, but by that I mean pedagogy and curriculum rather than standardized test scores (or "academic outcome performance metrics"). I'm not "afraid" of competition in the classroom; I just think that, for really bright kids (and certainly for me and mine), it's generally not the best motivator when it comes to intellectual development. YM no doubt Vs.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

This poster is probably a nouveau private school parent which explains her angst.

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean rookie?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, in more ways than one.

This poster is having a conversation with him or herself. This is not the first time that I have observed this poster sock puppeting.

I am not sure what kind of person obsesses over private school data in this manner, but I am pretty sure that I would not want to be seated next to this poster at a dinner party. Please poster, give us all a break. Find a hobby that is more intellectually stimulating such as calculating the time required for paint to dry while you watch it.

Just how many of these posts are from this poster? It seems like far, far more than these three.

[Anonymous]

How about those of us who aren't the sock puppet stop posting and then this thread will go away,

[Anonymous]

You can usually find data in their literature and other sites. I'm not trying to picking on this school in particular, their numbers were the first ones that I found. For those of you who do not want to know the scores, please stop reading now!

Landon

Graduate Placement
Graduate Reference Year 2010
Graduates 81
Graduates Attending College/Nonpublic Secondary School 81
Most Common Graduate Destinations U of VA 5, Cornell 4, Davidson 4, Trinity Col-DC 4, U of MD-Col Park 4, U of Denver 4
Average Math SAT 640
Average Critical Reading SAT 619
Average Writing SAT 629
Average ACT 27

[Anonymous]

you can also look at ratemyteacher.com and see what students at the schools say about the teacher. It is always interesting, some of the post are old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can usually find data in their literature and other sites. I'm not trying to picking on this school in particular, their numbers were the first ones that I found. For those of you who do not want to know the scores, please stop reading now!

Landon

Graduate Placement
Graduate Reference Year 2010
Graduates 81
Graduates Attending College/Nonpublic Secondary School 81
Most Common Graduate Destinations U of VA 5, Cornell 4, Davidson 4, Trinity Col-DC 4, U of MD-Col Park 4, U of Denver 4
Average Math SAT 640
Average Critical Reading SAT 619
Average Writing SAT 629
Average ACT 27

I didn't say I did not want the scores posted I just said I didn't care either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am not the PP I was "defending." She was responding to some rant that opponents of this idea had given no reasons by saying reasons have been given over and over and Op just wasn't listening. That was her point. There, i spelled it out for you since you obviously didn't get it.

Your numbers are interesting since you seem to be concluding most of those opposed are the same person, such as that i was the same as the poster using the spinach metaphor, and that those in favor are not posting over and over again. I;m confused by what you are referring to by the [hrase "you don't even know this is true." That what is true? My DC's schools SAT scores? of course I don't know what they are, they aren't public. And I don't care.

Hey, those of you who think this is a great idea, why don't you go and form a PAC, or a blue ribbon commission? Better yet, direct action! A sit-in at the various private schools. Fight the power. DEMAND a brighter future where ALL God's children, or at least those that can afford private school tuition, will have the FREEDOM to pursue SAT scores to their heart's content.

This action is not necessary. Most area private schools are losing their luster (over the last decade) and competitive edge and spirit. This is bound to continue. Only a few will survive as quality schools providing outstanding education. More secrecy will simply hasten their demise. It's not necessary to form a PAC or blue ribbon commission. Transparency about matters related to educational performance outcomes is always preferable for the American consumer of private school educational services.

I don't agree. As large budget cuts force public schools in our area to increase class size, cut programs and cut teachers, I think you will see more families, who are able to afford it, head to private schools. Your comment that "most area private schools are losing their luster, competitive edge and spirit" is unfounded and unless you show evidence (from where I don't know), unsubstantiated. Many area private schools show on their college placement/college attendance sheet the SAT breakdown for the most recent graduating class; typically you have to go on a tour or to an open house to get this information. And for what it's worth, whether or not private schools show or hide test scores (which many do not) is, in my opinion, a non-issue. There are so many other more important, more pressing educational issues that require the attention of all Americans. Feel free to disagree.