Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

I would add that there are lots of terrific schools in this area but they all have slightly different cultures. When you visit you will have a gut reaction about the fit for your child and family and thats more important than anything another family tells you. You will imagine your child there and ti will feel right or it won't. For this reason I prefer tours over open houses. The tours occur while school is in session so you can get a feel for both the classrooms and the atmosphere of the school.

I would be very wary of what people post on these boards about any school I've read things about schools my children attended (by folks not connected with the schools) that are just wacked. And I've read things by supporters of schools my children do not attend that are real turnoffs for those schools, I am sure unfairly.

[Anonymous]

For parents like us who are interested but not familar with the private schools in this area what advice would you give in looking at a school? While the brochures and websites provide general information and the open houses provide a brief feel for the school, what else can parents do to obtain real information about how well a school educates its students academically? I ask about academics specifically, because I'm not sure how to judge how well a classroom is conducted. Certainly, once a student attends a school parents and the students will know how well a school is educating its students, but my question comes from the view point of a parent who is researching which schools to consider. Frankly, prior to an admission offer, I'm afraid to hurt our chances, by asking too many hard questions and outside of the brief open houses I'm not sure many schools would welcome/allow parents to "shadow" or sit in classrooms for any length of time. Fit, arts, music, sports and extracurriculars are all important factors that I have found easier to find answers to than to determine how well a school educates academically.

This is an easy question. Check the school for annual and trend (5 to 10 years) information in some of the following categories (not necessarily in any order of importance):

Aggregate information about SAT/ACT scores
Aggregate information of performance on AP exams
Annual National Merit Semi-finalists and Finalists
Presidential Scholars
AP scholars
Performance in a variety of well known national competitions: e.g, Math-AMC 8, 10, 12, Mathcounts, AIME, USAMO, Science-science bowl, physics, chemistry, biology; Computer Science and Programming; Engineering; Writing Awards, Art Awards, History and Literature Awards
Books published by students in any area or field
Seimans and Intel awards
Davidson Scholarship Awards

Schools with traction and track records in these accomplishment areas are generally excellent. Superior education of students is not only a function of the curriculum and teachers but the peer group.

[Anonymous]

Re academics, it depends on what you're looking for. For most kids, AMC stats and number of Siemens winners and Davidson Scholars won't be good indicators of the strength of an academic program. They're markers of a particular kind of academic culture -- highly competitive and prize-oriented and focused on the most talented kids, especially those who are interested in math and science.

If that's your kid (and the approach you want to take to his or her intellectual development), then this is a useful list.

But even in a school that does well on such measures (unless it's a science magnet high school whose admissions are scores-based), the vast majority of kids won't be doing these things. So the question becomes what does the school offer *them* academically.

How do you know? Look at curriculum, look at NM commended (top 3.3% vs. top 1% of scorers nationally), look at whether the kids do internships or participate in programs like National History Day or Model UN that don't have high barriers to entry and that focus on giving kids an exceptional learning experience rather than identifying the most exceptional kids.

Look at college matriculation stats, but compare the outcomes you find least impressive at each school rather than the ones you find most impressive.

Ask yourself how your kid would fare at a particular school if s/he were in the top third or the middle third of the class rather than the top 5-10%.

And remember that this is all advice that is more relevant for middle school or HS than PreK/K. At the PreK/K level, nothing beats classroom observation, looking at curriculum (how much science and foreign language how early), and talking with parents (or, ideally kids) who are already at the school. Even if you choose a PreK-12 school, don't assume that it must or will be the only school your DC attends. You'll see whether the school is meeting his or her academic needs and, in the process, you'll gain a better understanding or what those specific needs are.

[Anonymous]

EXCELLENT advice.

[Anonymous]

I (8:18) should add that when you go to a school and observe, don't just listen to what happens in the classroom. Look at the work on the walls and in the halls. Does it look interesting? Does it all look the same (and/or is there one right answer) or do the personalities of individual kids show through? Does it reflect a variety of different kinds of tasks? Is it something you want your kid to be able to do? Is everybody's (or a range of) work posted, or just that of kids who did the best? Are the bulletin boards or other visuals in the classroom engaging and thought-provoking? Do they look like collaborative works in progress or teacher-produced and used year in and out with the appropriate unit?

Check out the books -- are there libraries in the classrooms as well as a main library. Is the library a book storage room, a glorified computer lab, or a place where people talk and discover books? Libraries are generally a place where a prospective parent is welcome to hang out (assuming you aren't talking on your cell or using computers that the kid need). Just say hi, ask if it's ok if you sit and read, and then read and eavesdrop.

One thing that really sold me on a PreK-8 campus was listening to a librarian help a middle schooler choose her next read. It was very clear that the two had a long, long history of sharing books and that the librarian was someone whom the kid recognized knew her well and was there for her.

[Anonymous]

School events - sports, plays, etc. Also, read the school newspaper sometimes the kids write about interesting topics. However I still want to see data, I use it as a guide there is a minimum level of performance meaning the kids have to score as well as my local school and should be better than most magnets and charters but not all. They just need to be reasonable scores

[Anonymous]

Every family will always have to evaluate their children in the context of academic performance and the 'intensity' of the environment. This is a given and does not need repeating. For those for whom the classroom kitchen is too hot. One simply gets out of the kitchen in favor of a milder environment. Nevertheless, academic performance metrics are just that. These can't be watered down by what some view as political correctness. Fit and things on the classroom wall have little to do with concrete measures of academic performance.

The same holds true for athletic performance. These are metrics one can't water down and dilute with political correctness. Of course, if you can't keep up with your team mates you find a team that's a better fit. This goes without saying. You can always play in Division 3 instead of Division 1 in athletics. The same holds true for academics. And we can all get a great athletic and/or academic experience in a "Division 1 or Division 3" environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every family will always have to evaluate their children in the context of academic performance and the 'intensity' of the environment. This is a given and does not need repeating. For those for whom the classroom kitchen is too hot. One simply gets out of the kitchen in favor of a milder environment. Nevertheless, academic performance metrics are just that. These can't be watered down by what some view as political correctness. Fit and things on the classroom wall have little to do with concrete measures of academic performance.

The same holds true for athletic performance. These are metrics one can't water down and dilute with political correctness. Of course, if you can't keep up with your team mates you find a team that's a better fit. This goes without saying. You can always play in Division 3 instead of Division 1 in athletics. The same holds true for academics. And we can all get a great athletic and/or academic experience in a "Division 1 or Division 3" environment.

POlitical correctness? What they hay are you talking about? You post makes it sound like the only way to approach this is to start with the schools with some kind of maximum test scores and then dial down if you don't think your child can handle the heat. This is ridiculous way to pick a school. There are quite a few schools in this area that send kids to Ivys or whatever, but they have differences in their cultures, the things they emphasize, their educational philosophies. These intangibles are just as important as any number. Personally, I don't want to send my children to a school where teachers are called by their first names, regardless of the school's test scores. Does that make me politically correct? What if I choose co-ed over single-sex? Again, doesn't fit into your quantification matrix. or what if I have a child who has a strong interest in the arts and I choose a school that fits those interests but doesn't have the highest scores? Is it because I think my child can't handle the heat?

Your paradigm casts a whole lot of judgment on a whole lot of people. So if a child goes to a school that doesn't have the highest scores its because they can't handle it? And if parents bring something other than quantifiable numbers to the decision, they are being PC? I am sure you find comfort in numbers but most of us would rather rely on more global considerations.

[Anonymous]

It's not a question of too much heat or watering down. It's a question about what you want from education. Personally, I want my kid to have an intellectually rich life, good judgment, the ability to see issues from a variety of points of view, an inderstanding of the limits of her knowledge and the skills, confidence, and honesty to keep pushing at those limits. I want her to speak and write well and to be able to communicate effectively to a variety of audiences.

She could learn all fo these things from her school without ever becoming a Siemens finalist. Or she could win the competition and learn few of these things.

Educational "metrics" aren't objective. They're value-laden and people who are equally invested in great academics may have very different conceptions of what a good education looks like and/or produces.

[Anonymous]

In football the Super Bowl is the trophy

In swimming it's Michael Phelps 8 gold medals based on the fasted times

In tennis it's winning the grand slam

In soccer it's winning the world cup

In the broad jump it's the longest jump. Many can't and don't attend the dance/party if they don't make the cut

True, these marks of excellence, outstanding accomplishments, are viewed as sitting on top, are as "value laden" as National Merit Finalists, perfect AP scores, Intel winners and Davidson Scholars. They are marks or excellence (in their respective fields) by any yardstick. Nevertheless, because these athletes and academicians accomplish these feats should not detract from others who don't and are happy as clams.

There is absolutely nothing remiss in using metrics such SAT/ACT/AP performance (or performance in national competitions and national subject awards) in assessing the academic quality of any educational institution in the land to help a candidate decide and choose institutions of preference. This statement does not in any minimize the importance of fit, religion, SES, ethnicity, legacy and other variables individuals use to arrive at their final choice.

[Anonymous]

A good education can be had in any of the seven continents on the globe.

As one travel to all the continents it remarkable how similar in behaviour parents are when assessing the educational excellence of their primary and secondary schools largely measured by the academic performance of the students attending the schools. These metrics (usually test scores and awards) are a component of the evaluation of schools by prospective students and families.

This does not imply, as some here stubbornly assume; these metrics are the sole criteria for school selection.

[Anonymous]

Your paradigm casts a whole lot of judgment on a whole lot of people. So if a child goes to a school that doesn't have the highest scores its because they can't handle it? And if parents bring something other than quantifiable numbers to the decision, they are being PC? I am sure you find comfort in numbers but most of us would rather rely on more global considerations.

This is not my paradigm. You are mistaken. Because many families will try to gauge the academic rigor and quality of school using information related to student awards and test scores does not espouse a paradigm that families and students attend the school in the neighborhood with the highest SAT/ACT/AP scores. And if they don't these kids can't handle it. Far from it. Why would anyone draw that conclusion?