Why are private schools not transparent with their test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There seems to be a real defensiveness about asking for SAT scores. And not a lot of thoughtful reasons why not.

This defensive poster comes from a long lineage of low SAT test scores.

Actually, I'm a national merit scholarship semifinalist, thank you very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Don't you think your child is more than methodology and someone else's scores? The test results of a school don't say all that much about the actual teaching and curriculum when that school is filled with kids who are from well-educated, affluent families who engage their children in learning outside of the classroom while others are tutored within an inch of their lives. All of that is separate from classroom instruction yet it certainly affects the test scores.

Pick the school that suits your family. Face it, around here all the privates are good. Your kid will shine at some and be outshined at others.

If all private schools around here are good why is it necessary to pick a school? A simple random process would suffice?
I know this is a difficult concept for you to grasp and understand. Some parents, students, and families wish to know how students perform academically at certain schools and where they end up at the next level befroe picking a school. Some parents and students are simply not interested in sports scores and college lacrosse and swimming scholarships.

What do you know about the importance and/or significance of test scores to advise families not to worry about them and not take them into account when choosing a private school?

Are you suggesting, if the school your children attended was in the bottom decile of area private schools regarding test scores and performance and the best exits were to Podunk University, you would elatedly kick up your heels because of the "great fit"?
These variables are important criteria for some of us to evaluate when making decisions about where to spend half a million dollars for preK to 12 education for our children.

I chose daycare that was the best fit for my kids also.

Therefore, we shall continue to seek this information when purchasing area private educational services. Sorry to burst your empty bubble.

Yes that is what I am saying. I will be looking for a school that cares about the child's intellect, physical, emotional and spiritual well being. I will not push my kid to score the highest and be the best and be miserable.

I hope in the end my son is well rounded - good enough grades to get in to MD or JMU or Univ. of FLA or University of Colorado. I will hope that he has leadership skills from sports, learns how to stand up in front of people and perform through the performing arts, makes life long friends. I hope that he has a high self esteem without being arrogant. I hope that he learns that he is lucky to have such incredible oportunities and to give back.

I do not spend a 1/2 million dollars (which is an over estimate for our schools) to get a return on investment. Just like a SAH mom does not give up 1/2 million dollars of income to get her kid into Harvard. I choose a school that is best for my childs emotional well being. I spent more on daycare/ year than I do on school.

I personally never even thought to look at the SAT scores when looking at schools. So yes - some parents don't care about SAT scores. Some do - then you should choose a school that cares and assume the ones that don't post it do it for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a radical idea: why don't you offer a reason that makes sense, and rings true.

7:24 beat me to it. All I would add is that the purpose of the SATs is supposed to provide some sort of unified assessment of ability to succeed in college. Arguably its not a very good measure of that,but it certainly was never designed to assess the quality of the high school. I want my children to learn how to analyze complex ideas, solve problems, write extended pieces of work and love learning. The SAT measures none of those things but those are the elements of a superior education. So if schools got into some sort of competition to prove they produce the highest test scores, that would distort the quality of the education. I am certain none of the top schools in this area would reduce themselves to a number (yeah, you'll argue that its only one data point, but its importance to you is a good reflection of how parents would take it), which is why I keep saying that this will never happen.

[Anonymous]

In addition to the SAT prep course issue, another problem with SATs as a measure of school performance is that you don't know what kids came in with. If it's learning you're measuring, you want both pre- and post- instruction data. Is the school that admits only kids that score in the top percentile and then graduates kids who score in the top percentile cherry-picking, offering a great education, or both? Is it offering a better education that a school that admits kids with a wider range of scores but that consistently raises those scores and narrows the range? That's before we get to whether the most brilliant students get the best scores on standardized tests and the extent to which they come to school brilliant vs. whether the school stimulates, channels, or dampens their brilliance.

Fit matters because who your kid is should shape what you want/expect from a school. Personally, I'm not looking for a school that maximizes standardized test scores. That's a low bar for my kid. I might feel differently if I were worried about getting DC into a decent college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If all private schools around here are good why is it necessary to pick a school? A simple random process would suffice?

cares and assume the ones that don't post it do it for a reason.

Because good can be applied to an infinite number of qualities, and different schools have different qualities. When I take my child to a doctor whom I hope is good, I want that doctor to have different qualities than her piano teacher, who is also good. At different times in a child's life, different schools may work for different reasons, not necessarily because one school is good, and one is not.

DC's school gives parents their children's ERB scores (no high school at this school), the average for their class, other independent schools, and the comparison with public schools. I am reassured to see that DC scores well, so I know she can "hack it" in a broader world. It tells me the school is doing their job, and she is using her intelligence. If the school has an area in which many children do poorly, the school reexamines either how they are teaching that, or if there is a specific reason why many children missed something. It is a tool for the school. It is not really something to publish, just like my kid's spelling tests aren't. The test scores give me an indication of my child's progress, but they won't tell you whether my child's school is good.

We were told on an admissions tour that the school typically scored above the independent school average (and that means well above average when compared with overall public & private schools combined average- something I didn't fully understand initially), but they didn't make claims beyond that. Scores are not released, and that's the way it should be. In a small school with small classes, it could be possible to figure who individuals are, and as previous posters have mentioned, sometimes classes fluctuate from year to year.

Probably the OP was talking about SAT scores, but even there it only gives you part of a picture, and you can probably figure out what's going on without them....college matriculation, types of classes offered, etc. What other students score doesn't indicate what your child will score.

Sure, I understand looking for a peer group. If a school consistently scored below average in everything, and the college placement was all expensive LACs with very low entrance standards, I too would be skeptical about spending hundreds of thousands for the education that led to that (unless I had a child who needed more support than publics could give, but would do OK in a small environment, etc. & that's OK too, but probably not what OP's interested in).

On one of these threads, a parent wrote about her DC wanting to go to a school that was fairly traditional, and where the students wore uniforms. The poster sounded a bit like that wasn't her type of place at all, but she understood that's where her child would be most comfortable, so that's what she was looking for. If you find a good fit, your child will be more likely to thrive, and really, as parents, that's what we want.

It IS difficult, as someone new to the independent school search process to figure out the "nature" of the different schools, but there are many varieties of good.

[Anonymous]

"All I would add is that the purpose of the SATs is supposed to provide some sort of unified assessment of ability to succeed in college."


How is ability to succeed in college NOT a measure of a high school's ability to prepare its kids? Yes, it's lovely to think of them sitting around and discussing southern American writers. But at the end of the day, it's about more than just sitting under a tree discussing writers, because they will be graded on it. In addition, they will most certainly need to be prepared for college.

To me, I wonder if some of the schools who routinely get lots of grads into Ivies are cruising on reputation rather than ability to prepare kids for college. Is this what's driving the fear of releasing these scores?

[Anonymous]

...but you are arguing you'd be happy with schools that fall to the minimum SAT bar if the fit was right?

[Anonymous]

Instead, why don't you try to explain why you think the scores aren't useful? ... Here's a radical idea: why don't you offer a reason that makes sense, and rings true.

(1) As a parent trying to decide where to submit applications for my children, average SAT score data is not very useful. At best, they are merely a very rough measure of academics. I don't need a rough measure of academics; I already know which schools are the most academically challenging, which are in the middle range, and which focus on other issues. It should take you no more than 5 minutes of research to get a sense of those groupings. Since I already know the rough lay-of-the-land, what's more important to me now is figuring out which particular school will best fit my child. SAT scores don't help me.

(2) As a parent with a child already at a private school, average SAT score data is not useful. I know my own child's capabilities, and I know whether she is being challenged appropriately at school. If she's old enough, I might even know her actual SAT scores. Learning (for example) that the 2010 class at my child's school had an average SAT score of 2108, while the private school down the road where my neighbor's child goes had an average score of 2078, is completely useless to me. In addition, I don't really want to hear to comments from my neighbor, or read garbage on the internet, that judges the education my child received based on how the average SAT score of the class of 2010 compared to some other school. So if given the opportunity, I will actively discourage my child's school from releasing average SAT data. Moreover, the only reason I can see for a school to publicize average SAT scores is to market itself to potential applicants. That offends me, because it means the school is using my child's private SAT scores as advertising. I pay a lot of money to send my child to her school, and her SAT scores are private family information, so I don't want her school publicizing them (even in aggregate form) without my permission.

Now why don't you try to explain why having average SAT scores from schools is useful. What would they tell you that you cannot easily obtain from some other source? Here's a radical idea: why don't you offer reasons that make sense and ring true. See if you can do it without being condescending and defensive.

[Anonymous]

It IS difficult, as someone new to the independent school search process to figure out the "nature" of the different schools, but there are many varieties of good.

I agree. This is precisely why transparency with regards important outcome variables (tests scores, college placements) (NFL placements for others) is better than not.

A free marketplace requires the lack of information barriers (unfettered access to information).

Let the marketplace decide ( in typical American parlance).

God bless America.

[Anonymous]

9:49 again. I also think 9:46 says a lot of wise things very well. I agree with her views.

[Anonymous]

Actually, at an excellent college the ability to discuss literary texts is more likely to influence GPA than the ability to ace multiple-choice tests is.

Cruising on reputation makes no sense as an explanation about Ivy admissions from privates since these schools do release scores to colleges. And then the colleges can (and many do) track how well students from any given HS do as undergrads at their institutions, so there's an independent feedback/assessment mechanism.

Bottom line: standardized test scores matter wrt college admissions (but they're more likely to work to disqualify a kid than to get the kid admitted), but doing well in a top tier college requires a different skillset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me, I wonder if some of the schools who routinely get lots of grads into Ivies are cruising on reputation rather than ability to prepare kids for college. Is this what's driving the fear of releasing these scores?

I think this sentiment is what's driving a lot of the people calling for "transparency." You seem to think that because schools are not providing you with loads of data proving they are academically superior, they must be hiding something, and you're going to be the one to uncover the dirty secret. Well, guess what? The marketplace is smarter than you are. DC and every other major city are filled with thousands of smart and savvy parents who care deeply about their children's education, about academic success, and about getting value for their money. You may want to see them as lemmings who foolishly flock to a handful of top schools, but I see them as smart researchers who "crowd source" the best option.

[Anonymous]

9:49:

SATs do not help you since you already have preliminary evaluations down. But, these scores will help me in my decision-making process. Therefore, you may ignore them while others are permitted to take them under consideration.

What are your objections to that approach?

Non democratic? Takes away free choice?

This information should be transparent.

Test scores and school performance are one of many important educational variables for public and private schools.

It is immaterial whether you would use or disgard this information in your decision making or critical thinking.

Do you understand the concept here?

[Anonymous]

No need to preach pp. Do you UNDERSTAND that not everyone thinks like you do?

[Anonymous]

10:05: No, I cannot understand you. Your post is close to gibberish to me.

Explain your decision-making process, and how average SAT scores will help you.

Whatever your decision-making process is, I have no objections to it -- you should do what's right for you. But I don't need to agree with you that schools should release their scores, or that other parents should support your demands for scores.