She passed high school math with A’s and B’s. In college, she had to start over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the issue. There are kids at all colleges who need remedial help - even the elite ones. If they're getting the help they need, then what is the problem? Oh, that they took spots from kids who had good math instruction in high school?

Because elite college admissions should go to qualified students otherwise these college aren’t elite anymore.

Who ever said UCSD was elite? It’s the third best public school in its state.

None of which are elite for undergraduate education. There are no elite public schools in any state because they aren't supposed to be elite. They are supposed to train students of their states for jobs like engineering, accounting, teaching, and health sciences. Anyone who believes that there aren't similar students in every state flagship is kidding themselves.

+1, this “elite” nonsense id do strange and a new (last 30 years or so) issue. Parents keep on wanting state schools to operate like Harvard- Harvard is Harvard and has its own issues with what parents consider a rigorous elite education.

State education is that: education for the representative students of a state. While there’s many grandiose ways state schools describe themselves, they’ve always been about broad opportunity and access in conjunction with rigorous, fair academics. You’re not gonna see grade inflation to the same extent at a state school, because they’re designed to have differentiation baked into the system. The issue here isn’t the “eliteness” of the UC system, but the changing standards of the California primary education system.

I think the key missing link is that state colleges and universities don’t take “less elite” students as a social justice mission (only) - they take students of all stripes because the goal is to create educated professionals that benefit the state - likely more than the IB bros at Princeton. You know - nurses, teachers, traffic engineers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These quotes stood out to me:

"we were granted so many opportunities to redo exams and homework"

and

"Do you know why you were given so many opportunities?

I’m sure it’s because they wanted us to not have F’s and D’s on our transcripts. It was just wanting us to be able to move on to the next grade. It never really was to hold us accountable. Instead of being like, hey, you only get one retake, it was just, you can retake it as many times as you like, to get a grade that you’re comfortable with."

wtf? how is this helping anyone? why are these kids getting compared to other kids who get zero chances to retake, much less unlimited, until they get the score they want?

Zero retakes is also a terrible system, pedagogically. The purpose of a school is not to evaluate once, but to teach. Retakes unto mastery is the way to do it. Public schools that offer retakes without mastery are failing their students, but so are private schools that offer zero retakes and simply counsel out students who don’t get Bs the first time.

Absolutely wrong. “Retakes until mastery is lipstick on a pig. There is a reason the traditional format of homework - study - test is traditional. because it is an effective way to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the issue. There are kids at all colleges who need remedial help - even the elite ones. If they're getting the help they need, then what is the problem? Oh, that they took spots from kids who had good math instruction in high school?

Because elite college admissions should go to qualified students otherwise these college aren’t elite anymore.

Who ever said UCSD was elite? It’s the third best public school in its state.

None of which are elite for undergraduate education. There are no elite public schools in any state because they aren't supposed to be elite. They are supposed to train students of their states for jobs like engineering, accounting, teaching, and health sciences. Anyone who believes that there aren't similar students in every state flagship is kidding themselves.

+1, this “elite” nonsense id do strange and a new (last 30 years or so) issue. Parents keep on wanting state schools to operate like Harvard- Harvard is Harvard and has its own issues with what parents consider a rigorous elite education.

State education is that: education for the representative students of a state. While there’s many grandiose ways state schools describe themselves, they’ve always been about broad opportunity and access in conjunction with rigorous, fair academics. You’re not gonna see grade inflation to the same extent at a state school, because they’re designed to have differentiation baked into the system. The issue here isn’t the “eliteness” of the UC system, but the changing standards of the California primary education system.

I think the key missing link is that state colleges and universities don’t take “less elite” students as a social justice mission (only) - they take students of all stripes because the goal is to create educated professionals that benefit the state - likely more than the IB bros at Princeton. You know - nurses, teachers, traffic engineers, etc.

No offense, but that is the very first item of the UC's college's mission statement. Social justice and equity are not a byproduct in California, it is the mission.

Our Vision:
The Office of Social Justice Initiatives & Identity Programs advocates for a future where every UC Merced scholar belongs, justice is non-negotiable, and thriving in a multicultural world is not a privilege, but a right.

Our Mission:
The Office of Social Justice Initiatives & Identity Programs is committed to transforming UC Merced into a space where historically underserved scholars not only stay, but thrive. Through intentional programming, intersectional community building, and unapologetic student empowerment, we foster belonging, justice, and liberation for all.

Our Commitment:
Rooted in our commitment to UC Merced’s diverse scholar community, we work to dismantle systemic barriers and reshape university culture through bold advocacy and institutional transformation. We aim to make UC Merced a launchpad for justice-driven leadership and a catalyst for meaningful, sustained social change.

Our Pillars
1. Equity & Justice

We center the experiences of historically underserved scholars and actively challenge systems of oppression to build a campus rooted in equity, justice, and liberation.

2. Belonging & Community

We cultivate spaces of radical belonging and intersectional community where every scholar feels valued, seen, and supported in their full identity.

3. Holistic Development

We empower students through opportunities that support academic, emotional, social, and cultural growth, nurturing the whole scholar.

4. Student Agency & Leadership

We amplify student voice and agency, developing changemakers who lead with purpose, pride, and a commitment to justice.

5. Institutional Transformation

We work to influence campus policies and practices to create lasting, systemic change, positioning UC Merced as a hub for transformative leadership and social justice innovation.

[Anonymous]

Even trying to tone it down by not subjecting themselves to a Prop 209 lawsuit, SFFA-style one:

https://www.ucsc.edu/mission-and-vision/

[Anonymous]

UCI:
https://ce.uci.edu/about/mission

Mission, Vision and Values

Learners at the Center
We put learners first by addressing their needs, supporting their experience, and investing in their success. ,b>We are committed to providing access to all learners.</b>
I
Intentional Commitment to Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging
We strive to create and nurture a culture of inclusivity, diversity, equity, and belonging among our learners, instructors, and team members.

[Anonymous]

If she got Cs and Ds in math and then went to UCSD, would it have been any different?

She's obviously not very smart if she can study enough to take a test twice and get her score up to 100% and then forget it, year after year in the same subject that covers the same material.

What was her SAT? What was her math level? AP?

[Anonymous]

A lot of people do not have math brains. I see the diversity in my kids. They can get 100% but cramming for a test, but they don't "get it" in any useful way.

You don't need calculus to get a nursing degree or English degree. Remedial math in college is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the issue. There are kids at all colleges who need remedial help - even the elite ones. If they're getting the help they need, then what is the problem? Oh, that they took spots from kids who had good math instruction in high school?

Because elite college admissions should go to qualified students otherwise these college aren’t elite anymore.

Who ever said UCSD was elite? It’s the third best public school in its state.

None of which are elite for undergraduate education. There are no elite public schools in any state because they aren't supposed to be elite. They are supposed to train students of their states for jobs like engineering, accounting, teaching, and health sciences. Anyone who believes that there aren't similar students in every state flagship is kidding themselves.

+1, this “elite” nonsense id do strange and a new (last 30 years or so) issue. Parents keep on wanting state schools to operate like Harvard- Harvard is Harvard and has its own issues with what parents consider a rigorous elite education.

State education is that: education for the representative students of a state. While there’s many grandiose ways state schools describe themselves, they’ve always been about broad opportunity and access in conjunction with rigorous, fair academics. You’re not gonna see grade inflation to the same extent at a state school, because they’re designed to have differentiation baked into the system. The issue here isn’t the “eliteness” of the UC system, but the changing standards of the California primary education system.

I think the key missing link is that state colleges and universities don’t take “less elite” students as a social justice mission (only) - they take students of all stripes because the goal is to create educated professionals that benefit the state - likely more than the IB bros at Princeton. You know - nurses, teachers, traffic engineers, etc.

No offense, but that is the very first item of the UC's college's mission statement. Social justice and equity are not a byproduct in California, it is the mission.

Our Vision:
The Office of Social Justice Initiatives & Identity Programs advocates for a future where every UC Merced scholar belongs, justice is non-negotiable, and thriving in a multicultural world is not a privilege, but a right.

Our Mission:
The Office of Social Justice Initiatives & Identity Programs is committed to transforming UC Merced into a space where historically underserved scholars not only stay, but thrive. Through intentional programming, intersectional community building, and unapologetic student empowerment, we foster belonging, justice, and liberation for all.

Our Commitment:
Rooted in our commitment to UC Merced’s diverse scholar community, we work to dismantle systemic barriers and reshape university culture through bold advocacy and institutional transformation. We aim to make UC Merced a launchpad for justice-driven leadership and a catalyst for meaningful, sustained social change.

Our Pillars
1. Equity & Justice

We center the experiences of historically underserved scholars and actively challenge systems of oppression to build a campus rooted in equity, justice, and liberation.

2. Belonging & Community

We cultivate spaces of radical belonging and intersectional community where every scholar feels valued, seen, and supported in their full identity.

3. Holistic Development

We empower students through opportunities that support academic, emotional, social, and cultural growth, nurturing the whole scholar.

4. Student Agency & Leadership

We amplify student voice and agency, developing changemakers who lead with purpose, pride, and a commitment to justice.

5. Institutional Transformation

We work to influence campus policies and practices to create lasting, systemic change, positioning UC Merced as a hub for transformative leadership and social justice innovation.

Well that’s UC Merced for one …

But yes I know that they have statements like this. My overall point though is that higher ed also exists for the benefit of the state overall. I assume that no matter how much of a prestige wh*re one is about “elite colleges,” you also prefer your kid’s teacher to be well trained and your nurse to be competent, and your municipal water treatment system to work. That all requires people with college degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the issue. There are kids at all colleges who need remedial help - even the elite ones. If they're getting the help they need, then what is the problem? Oh, that they took spots from kids who had good math instruction in high school?

Who would help them after graduation? Governments? Tax Payers? AI? Why would employers hire them?

Typically they get hired in fields that don’t need the remedial skills. Eg, Supreme Court litigator who doesn’t need calculus. Surgeon who doesn’t need to be able to write literary analysis. Investment banker who only speaks English.

Elite schools want to produce students who reach a minimum threshold in all areas while also enrolling “spiky” students who are superstars in one area. So, they need to provide remediation in the weaker areas.

Supreme court litigators did well in calculus. Surgeons did well in English. Grad school is competitive.

[Anonymous]

The article said her HS didn’t even offer calculus so probably algebra and trig is as far as she got and she was getting Bs in that so obviously not a strong math student. The strong math students at her HS, which may be few, are probably taking calculus at the local community college.

I had a good friend in HS who was a good student but was utterly terrible at math. I used to try to tutor her and it was impossible — she could not retain the information. She got into the state flagship and they required her to take remedial math at the local community college. I don’t think she ever went past algebra but honestly that’s enough for most people. She became a Kingergarten teacher.


I feel like a segment of people have always struggled with math. I wish there was less judgment about repeating a math class. Many people need more than a year to understand algebra and algebra 2 is awful for many people. Repeating it looks like the kiss of death on a college transcript but it really should not. People need more review for some of this stuff to really sink in. I did really well in calculus but a year later I couldn’t do it of it — without repetition, it doesn’t really burrow into the deep part of your brain.

[Anonymous]

IN this day and age of HS grade inflation, a "B" grade shows you don't have a good handle on the material. Math builds on itself. If you don't know one part, the rest will be undoable. You have to master the concepts and material as you go. Making a mistake here and there is fine, but getting a "B" shows you haven't really learned the math in a way that would be useful. Hence the difficulty in college. The grade you got doesn't really matter. What matters is do you deeply understand all the concepts presented everyday? If not, get extra help, study more or use online resources and gain mastery everyday.

Not surprised an A/B math student would have trouble in math in college

[Anonymous]

This post was super helpful, thanks OP.
My kid will not have problems with math in college based on what I've read here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people do not have math brains. I see the diversity in my kids. They can get 100% but cramming for a test, but they don't "get it" in any useful way.

You don't need calculus to get a nursing degree or English degree. Remedial math in college is fine.

Way to cope. It’s not just math. Americans are a bunch of low iq brainwashed sheep manipulated by a small number of elites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These quotes stood out to me:

"we were granted so many opportunities to redo exams and homework"

and

"Do you know why you were given so many opportunities?

I’m sure it’s because they wanted us to not have F’s and D’s on our transcripts. It was just wanting us to be able to move on to the next grade. It never really was to hold us accountable. Instead of being like, hey, you only get one retake, it was just, you can retake it as many times as you like, to get a grade that you’re comfortable with."

wtf? how is this helping anyone? why are these kids getting compared to other kids who get zero chances to retake, much less unlimited, until they get the score they want?

Zero retakes is also a terrible system, pedagogically. The purpose of a school is not to evaluate once, but to teach. Retakes unto mastery is the way to do it. Public schools that offer retakes without mastery are failing their students, but so are private schools that offer zero retakes and simply counsel out students who don’t get Bs the first time.

Absolutely wrong. “Retakes until mastery” is lipstick on a pig. There is a reason the traditional format of homework - study - test is traditional. because it is an effective way to learn.

Homework - study - fail the test - now I know it - move on to the next unit.

Is that how it works, in your mind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These quotes stood out to me:

"we were granted so many opportunities to redo exams and homework"

and

"Do you know why you were given so many opportunities?

I’m sure it’s because they wanted us to not have F’s and D’s on our transcripts. It was just wanting us to be able to move on to the next grade. It never really was to hold us accountable. Instead of being like, hey, you only get one retake, it was just, you can retake it as many times as you like, to get a grade that you’re comfortable with."

wtf? how is this helping anyone? why are these kids getting compared to other kids who get zero chances to retake, much less unlimited, until they get the score they want?

Zero retakes is also a terrible system, pedagogically. The purpose of a school is not to evaluate once, but to teach. Retakes unto mastery is the way to do it. Public schools that offer retakes without mastery are failing their students, but so are private schools that offer zero retakes and simply counsel out students who don’t get Bs the first time.

Absolutely wrong. “Retakes until mastery” is lipstick on a pig. There is a reason the traditional format of homework - study - test is traditional. because it is an effective way to learn.

Homework - study - fail the test - now I know it - move on to the next unit.

Is that how it works, in your mind?

Yes because if they fail all the tests then they repeat the class.