Thinking back as a mom, was Kate Gosselin really that bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are catholic, amish, and other religious families who have this number of kids all the time. They dont have these issues but also aren't putting their kids on TV.

Um, Catholic are vehemently against this type of fertility treatment, even liberal pelosi style catholics.

Conservative and traditional Catholics are against nearly all fertility treatments, for many reasons too vast to discuss on this entertainment thread

To attributes crazy octomom style ivf treatments to prolife Catholics and other conservative Christian religion show a complete ignorance of Christianity and pro life faith traditions.

The one thing that is certain is that Catholics are definitely not implanting a litter of unborn children into the womb.

I think you misread this post. I think it was more about # of children and not fertility treatments that lead to large families. There are certain religions that have been known to just have larger families, for whatever reason. Very conservative Catholics don’t approve of birth control, so they tend to have more children. Then there are the quiver full types.

Don’t you think 6 two year olds is different than a 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 yr old? Large families don’t usually have kids all the same age.

That was what I was trying to say - didn’t realize I had to get that specific

Religion has nothing to do with this particular case. It’s not that everyone else is managing large families well, I think having large order multiples poses extra challenges and stressors that even Amish or Catholics might not be able handle more gracefully and with a positive attitude all day long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are catholic, amish, and other religious families who have this number of kids all the time. They dont have these issues but also aren't putting their kids on TV.

Um, Catholic are vehemently against this type of fertility treatment, even liberal pelosi style catholics.

Conservative and traditional Catholics are against nearly all fertility treatments, for many reasons too vast to discuss on this entertainment thread

To attributes crazy octomom style ivf treatments to prolife Catholics and other conservative Christian religion show a complete ignorance of Christianity and pro life faith traditions.

The one thing that is certain is that Catholics are definitely not implanting a litter of unborn children into the womb.

I think you misread this post. I think it was more about # of children and not fertility treatments that lead to large families. There are certain religions that have been known to just have larger families, for whatever reason. Very conservative Catholics don’t approve of birth control, so they tend to have more children. Then there are the quiver full types.

Don’t you think 6 two year olds is different than a 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 yr old? Large families don’t usually have kids all the same age.

That was what I was trying to say - didn’t realize I had to get that specific

Religion has nothing to do with this particular case. It’s not that everyone else is managing large families well, I think having large order multiples poses extra challenges and stressors that even Amish or Catholics might not be able handle more gracefully and with a positive attitude all day long.

The post that got upset about fertility treatments and religions took this post in a weird direction. That was the post that I think misunderstood where the original person was going with their comments.

Those religions and/or cultures (shout out to my Greek friend with 6 kids) that tend to have families of the same size as the gosselins do not tend to have their kids via fertility treatments or as higher order multiple sets. They usually have their kids via stair steps - one every 1-2 years.

Yes, you are correct that having higher order multiples does present different challenges than large families that happen more over time.

The only thing religion had to do with this family from what I understand (I don’t follow them or watch their shows) is that they refused to do selective reduction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

The point is she was an angry ragsmonster. She's alienated plenty of people. I believe her brother and sister in law no longer speak with her, in addition to John and several of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Also no one forced her to birth six kids like a litter of puppies. She did it for the glory of Kate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

They are scared of her. She was horrible to Collin and put him in an institution and never visited. Just give him to dad. Who does that?

The kids who say Collin was violent and terrorized them. They were scared of him. If she’s so bad why didn’t they all run off to live with dad?

1) because maybe Kate and John were terrible? So the devil you know
2) why doesn’t any abuse victim “just leave?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are catholic, amish, and other religious families who have this number of kids all the time. They dont have these issues but also aren't putting their kids on TV.

Um, Catholic are vehemently against this type of fertility treatment, even liberal pelosi style catholics.

Conservative and traditional Catholics are against nearly all fertility treatments, for many reasons too vast to discuss on this entertainment thread

To attributes crazy octomom style ivf treatments to prolife Catholics and other conservative Christian religion show a complete ignorance of Christianity and pro life faith traditions.

The one thing that is certain is that Catholics are definitely not implanting a litter of unborn children into the womb.

I think you misread this post. I think it was more about # of children and not fertility treatments that lead to large families. There are certain religions that have been known to just have larger families, for whatever reason. Very conservative Catholics don’t approve of birth control, so they tend to have more children. Then there are the quiver full types.

Don’t you think 6 two year olds is different than a 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 yr old? Large families don’t usually have kids all the same age.

That was what I was trying to say - didn’t realize I had to get that specific

Religion has nothing to do with this particular case. It’s not that everyone else is managing large families well, I think having large order multiples poses extra challenges and stressors that even Amish or Catholics might not be able handle more gracefully and with a positive attitude all day long.

The post that got upset about fertility treatments and religions took this post in a weird direction. That was the post that I think misunderstood where the original person was going with their comments.

Those religions and/or cultures (shout out to my Greek friend with 6 kids) that tend to have families of the same size as the gosselins do not tend to have their kids via fertility treatments or as higher order multiple sets. They usually have their kids via stair steps - one every 1-2 years.

Yes, you are correct that having higher order multiples does present different challenges than large families that happen more over time.

The only thing religion had to do with this family from what I understand (I don’t follow them or watch their shows) is that they refused to do selective reduction.

Kate wasn't religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's unethical to give birth to higher older multiples like that. The only reason people do is because they don't listen to their doctors (who would encourage reducing the pregnancy through selective abortion early on) and instead listen to some old white dude who runs a church out of his basement.

And then once the higher order multiples are here, they get exploited for tv shows. It's gross.

Is that really true? Even then I think it would unethical for a doctor to do anything besides lay out the facts, risks, options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

They are scared of her. She was horrible to Collin and put him in an institution and never visited. Just give him to dad. Who does that?

The kids who say Collin was violent and terrorized them. They were scared of him. If she’s so bad why didn’t they all run off to live with dad?

1) because maybe Kate and John were terrible? So the devil you know
2) why doesn’t any abuse victim “just leave?”

The kids are adults now but many still don’t have a relationship with Jon. Jon seems like he kind of sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unethical to give birth to higher older multiples like that. The only reason people do is because they don't listen to their doctors (who would encourage reducing the pregnancy through selective abortion early on) and instead listen to some old white dude who runs a church out of his basement.

And then once the higher order multiples are here, they get exploited for tv shows. It's gross.

Is that really true? Even then I think it would unethical for a doctor to do anything besides lay out the facts, risks, options

I think the doctor did not care much for ethics or he would not have implanted 6 embryos in the first place. It's really weird all around. It comes off like Kate was out for her claim to fame from the start. Probably inspired by the McCaughey seltuplet parents in Iowa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

They are scared of her. She was horrible to Collin and put him in an institution and never visited. Just give him to dad. Who does that?

The kids who say Collin was violent and terrorized them. They were scared of him. If she’s so bad why didn’t they all run off to live with dad?

1) because maybe Kate and John were terrible? So the devil you know
2) why doesn’t any abuse victim “just leave?”

The kids are adults now but many still don’t have a relationship with Jon. Jon seems like he kind of sucks.

I think what you are missing is just because he sucks doesn’t mean that she wasn’t abusive and terrible. It doesn’t vindicate her at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are catholic, amish, and other religious families who have this number of kids all the time. They dont have these issues but also aren't putting their kids on TV.

Um, Catholic are vehemently against this type of fertility treatment, even liberal pelosi style catholics.

Conservative and traditional Catholics are against nearly all fertility treatments, for many reasons too vast to discuss on this entertainment thread

To attributes crazy octomom style ivf treatments to prolife Catholics and other conservative Christian religion show a complete ignorance of Christianity and pro life faith traditions.

The one thing that is certain is that Catholics are definitely not implanting a litter of unborn children into the womb.

I think you misread this post. I think it was more about # of children and not fertility treatments that lead to large families. There are certain religions that have been known to just have larger families, for whatever reason. Very conservative Catholics don’t approve of birth control, so they tend to have more children. Then there are the quiver full types.

Don’t you think 6 two year olds is different than a 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9 yr old? Large families don’t usually have kids all the same age.

That was what I was trying to say - didn’t realize I had to get that specific

Religion has nothing to do with this particular case. It’s not that everyone else is managing large families well, I think having large order multiples poses extra challenges and stressors that even Amish or Catholics might not be able handle more gracefully and with a positive attitude all day long.

The post that got upset about fertility treatments and religions took this post in a weird direction. That was the post that I think misunderstood where the original person was going with their comments.

Those religions and/or cultures (shout out to my Greek friend with 6 kids) that tend to have families of the same size as the gosselins do not tend to have their kids via fertility treatments or as higher order multiple sets. They usually have their kids via stair steps - one every 1-2 years.

Yes, you are correct that having higher order multiples does present different challenges than large families that happen more over time.

The only thing religion had to do with this family from what I understand (I don’t follow them or watch their shows) is that they refused to do selective reduction.

Actually, they went on a tour to a bunch of evangelical churches telling their story ("testimony") about how they refused to selectively reduce and God rewarded their faith with all the babies living and coming out healthy, and then later in her book Kate admitted that there were initially 7 and one didn't make it after all. They got their intial start and fan base in a religious setting, it just wasn't the insane version of the Duggars and that angle quickly got dropped from the TV show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

They are scared of her. She was horrible to Collin and put him in an institution and never visited. Just give him to dad. Who does that?

The kids who say Collin was violent and terrorized them. They were scared of him. If she’s so bad why didn’t they all run off to live with dad?

1) because maybe Kate and John were terrible? So the devil you know
2) why doesn’t any abuse victim “just leave?”

The kids are adults now but many still don’t have a relationship with Jon. Jon seems like he kind of sucks.

I think what you are missing is just because he sucks doesn’t mean that she wasn’t abusive and terrible. It doesn’t vindicate her at all.

It has nothing to do with vindication but if you’re going to heap insults against her, might as well add him to the mix. He was a lousy deadbeat dad yet in here it’s all “she is evil” blah blah. And “poor Jon, so glad he could finally live a little after marrying so young”. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unethical to give birth to higher older multiples like that. The only reason people do is because they don't listen to their doctors (who would encourage reducing the pregnancy through selective abortion early on) and instead listen to some old white dude who runs a church out of his basement.

And then once the higher order multiples are here, they get exploited for tv shows. It's gross.

Is that really true? Even then I think it would unethical for a doctor to do anything besides lay out the facts, risks, options

I think the doctor did not care much for ethics or he would not have implanted 6 embryos in the first place. It's really weird all around. It comes off like Kate was out for her claim to fame from the start. Probably inspired by the McCaughey seltuplet parents in Iowa.

There were no embryos. I’m pretty sure what happened is she had timed intercourse after using ovulation stimulating drugs and was probably advised not to do that. They would (or should) have canceled her IUI after seeing her enthusiastic response to the drugs with so many mature follicles. And this certainly makes Jon just as much responsible for the outcome as Kate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's unethical to give birth to higher older multiples like that. The only reason people do is because they don't listen to their doctors (who would encourage reducing the pregnancy through selective abortion early on) and instead listen to some old white dude who runs a church out of his basement.

And then once the higher order multiples are here, they get exploited for tv shows. It's gross.

Is that really true? Even then I think it would unethical for a doctor to do anything besides lay out the facts, risks, options

I think the doctor did not care much for ethics or he would not have implanted 6 embryos in the first place. It's really weird all around. It comes off like Kate was out for her claim to fame from the start. Probably inspired by the McCaughey seltuplet parents in Iowa.

This wasn't an IVF pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back and watched a few episodes a year or two ago. She was worse than I remembered. Truly a mommy dearest.

+1. Being stressed is not an excuse for verbal abuse. She was a control freak who maintained control through verbal abuse and shaming. Everyone knows someone like this. The modus operandi is to make life hell for everyone who does not do what you want. They learn that there is hell to pay so they then just go along with every demand you make. This is Kate in every episode. This is why most of her kids hate her.

Most of her kids? Seems like 6 are fine with her.

They are scared of her. She was horrible to Collin and put him in an institution and never visited. Just give him to dad. Who does that?

The kids who say Collin was violent and terrorized them. They were scared of him. If she’s so bad why didn’t they all run off to live with dad?

1) because maybe Kate and John were terrible? So the devil you know
2) why doesn’t any abuse victim “just leave?”

The kids are adults now but many still don’t have a relationship with Jon. Jon seems like he kind of sucks.

I think what you are missing is just because he sucks doesn’t mean that she wasn’t abusive and terrible. It doesn’t vindicate her at all.

It has nothing to do with vindication but if you’re going to heap insults against her, might as well add him to the mix. He was a lousy deadbeat dad yet in here it’s all “she is evil” blah blah. And “poor Jon, so glad he could finally live a little after marrying so young”. Give me a break.

He want a deadbeat. She owed him child support and stole the kids money. He did not want to be on the show.