Please help me plan our exploratory trip to plan a retirement-in-Europe second home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What's the timeline? Can you wait? The anti-American sentiment is incredibly strong right now all over Europe - European here. It's borderline hate.

Do.you have evidence of that directed to actual individuals? Have a few friends who have gone over the last few months, said it was fine. Sure may have gotten a couple of comments about Trump, etc, but not directed at them in any way, and only in passing. Other posts here have said the same.

This is the problem with Americans, 100% delulu. You have at least 2 Europeans here telling you that everyone can't stand you and you say it's fine because someone traveled for a week there. Of course it was fine, they want you to spend your money and gtfo.

Why are you hanging out on an American message board with the deluded, then? Sounds like somebody likes us.

Because I work in DC?!

Let me get this straight: you are European and living and working in DC, yet you don't want anyone else to do the exact same thing you are doing? Talk about delulu. Or at least hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

I still want to know what “extremely well traveled” means to OP. She has never answered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone so offended by the op noting she is well travelled!! We know what she meant.

Maybe OP can tell us herself in her own words.

It really doesn't matter for the OPs question. I would say I'm well traveled. I have been to about 45 countries over 5 continents (missing Antarctica, which I don't plan to visit despite having several friends who have done the Linblad cruises, and Australia, which I would like to visit), and lived outside the US for 9 years in 3 countries. But the earlier poster who has been to 120 countries is definitely better traveled than me and might argue with my assessment of me being well traveled. I will take OP at her word that she is well traveled enough to understand the pros and cons of owning a house and spending an extended time in another country. That's not what she is asking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the timeline? Can you wait? The anti-American sentiment is incredibly strong right now all over Europe - European here. It's borderline hate.

Do.you have evidence of that directed to actual individuals? Have a few friends who have gone over the last few months, said it was fine. Sure may have gotten a couple of comments about Trump, etc, but not directed at them in any way, and only in passing. Other posts here have said the same.

This is the problem with Americans, 100% delulu. You have at least 2 Europeans here telling you that everyone can't stand you and you say it's fine because someone traveled for a week there. Of course it was fine, they want you to spend your money and gtfo.

Why are you hanging out on an American message board with the deluded, then? Sounds like somebody likes us.

Because I work in DC?!

Let me get this straight: you are European and living and working in DC, yet you don't want anyone else to do the exact same thing you are doing? Talk about delulu. Or at least hypocritical.

👍

[Anonymous]

OP, on a practical matter... you need to look into potential tax issues if you plan to buy property and live part-time in Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're early 60s, correct? based on your H being "upper 70s" in 15 years.

I wouldn't live further than a 20 minute fast drive from the equivalent of an American tertiary hospital. You are entering peak stroke, MI and head bleed (fall) years, and where you get initial care makes all the difference in an acute event. By my criteria, almost none of the Italian or French countryside qualifies. For the same reason, I personally wouldn't retire to much of Maine, the Smoky Mountains, Martha's Vineyard, etc.

Why so anxious for medical treatment when you’re living no life at all?

Because all day long I take care of people who just suffered an acute event, particularly strokes and MIs. The ones who get fast great care at my hospital that you’ve definitely heard of bounce right back within the week and go on to hike again in Iceland. The ones who come in an hour+ later after the wife finds them acting “off” lose brain function forever. Then they stay alive for 20 years with 66% less physical and mental capacity. Maybe in assisted living and definitely not hiking and biking the French countryside. I am specifically thinking of the patient I had today who used to be hale and hearty, and then fell and hit his head during a trek in Poland and had a slow head bleed and now can’t use the entire right side of his body and keeps having seizures.

There are so many fantastic locales near good hospitals, even sorta rural places like the Berkshires or outside of Florence, Italy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what we did. Narrow down your scope to a specific country. You are casting way too wide a net. Then visit ex pat groups online and reddit and you'll get suggestions on towns and neighborhoods to live in. Then, you need to visit several times and at different times of the year. The first few times will still be under the base of the excitement and romance of the idea of buying a retirement spot in Europe. You need to visit and stay long enough to experience the reality of what living there is like.

Spending 2 days in a location and deciding that's where you want to buy is not a good way to go about doing this.

Do any of you actually read the OP, or is your reading comprehension really that bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

LOL. Europeans take a three hour train ride to visit an adjoining country and think that makes them “well traveled.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

OP doesn't need your snarky advice, she posted in shorthand on an anonymous message board. We all know what well-traveled means and if you think she is only well-traveled for an American, so what? This is DCUM, most of us are American.

PP here. Please, by all means, educate us. What does “well traveled” mean to an American? Florida plus Bahamas? .

Are you asking for a geography lesson of Europe v the United Statea?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Visiting US States is not like visiting European countries.

I am asking if you need a geography lesson because the US is enormous. Europeans can hop on a train and be in another country the same way Americans might travel from state to state. Of course it is easier for Europeans to travel throughout Europe. That's not a flex.

OK sure. Visit Alabama and Austria and tell me which provided a better cultural experience. Or Norway and North Dakota. It’s not the same my dear.

It’s so funny how “well traveled” Europeans are the most parochial people on the planet. You do understand there are places in the world outside of Northern Europe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

OP doesn't need your snarky advice, she posted in shorthand on an anonymous message board. We all know what well-traveled means and if you think she is only well-traveled for an American, so what? This is DCUM, most of us are American.

PP here. Please, by all means, educate us. What does “well traveled” mean to an American? Florida plus Bahamas? .

Are you asking for a geography lesson of Europe v the United Statea?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Visiting US States is not like visiting European countries.

I am asking if you need a geography lesson because the US is enormous. Europeans can hop on a train and be in another country the same way Americans might travel from state to state. Of course it is easier for Europeans to travel throughout Europe. That's not a flex.

OK sure. Visit Alabama and Austria and tell me which provided a better cultural experience. Or Norway and North Dakota. It’s not the same my dear.

It’s so funny how “well traveled” Europeans are the most parochial people on the planet. You do understand there are places in the world outside of Northern Europe?

Agree. They can be quite chauvinistic. And their obvious and casual racism seems to be totally invisible to them. Meanwhile it's obvious to the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our goal is to buy a home in Europe where we'll spend 4-5 months per year in retirement. Our short-term goal is to find the right town/neighborhood/city.

I'm hoping to crowd source a travel plan our first 3-week exploratory trip in Portugal, Spain, France, Italy? This is what we're trying to find:

- a pretty neighborhood with older architecture on the coast or within one hour of the coast (obviously this doesn't narrow it down much)
- not a super tiny town unless it's, say, 45 minutes from Nice or someplace like it with cultural amenities and medical facilities
- looking to spend $500K-$800K for a 2 or 3 bedroom; so not Monte Carlo but also not budget Portuguese modern condos
- access to public transportation not a priority; if we need a car, we'll buy one and keep it there
- preferably an international community, though not necessarily American
- we're extremely well-traveled and self-sufficient and will take language immersion courses
- this is a 15-year plan; we'll sell once my husband reaches his upper 70s and don't mind if property values fall by then

Would you please identify areas where you've dreamed of retiring or encountered on your travels! We'll ideally spend 2 full days in 10 different areas during our drive. The following summer, we'll narrow it down to just 2 places and spend more time there before we start the actual property search the next year.

Thank you, DCUM!

PS This isn't a question about visas and residency permits and we know about Schengen. And yep, we also know how very hot the coast gets as well as the danger of fire, floods, sea rise.

Non-American chiming in. It sounds like you’ve thought through your general approach. I have a number of friends with places in different parts of Europe. One piece of advice that was given to me was to try renting in an area for at least 6-12 months before buying as that will give you a much better idea of what it is like to live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

OP doesn't need your snarky advice, she posted in shorthand on an anonymous message board. We all know what well-traveled means and if you think she is only well-traveled for an American, so what? This is DCUM, most of us are American.

PP here. Please, by all means, educate us. What does “well traveled” mean to an American? Florida plus Bahamas? .

Are you asking for a geography lesson of Europe v the United Statea?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Visiting US States is not like visiting European countries.

I am asking if you need a geography lesson because the US is enormous. Europeans can hop on a train and be in another country the same way Americans might travel from state to state. Of course it is easier for Europeans to travel throughout Europe. That's not a flex.

OK sure. Visit Alabama and Austria and tell me which provided a better cultural experience. Or Norway and North Dakota. It’s not the same my dear.

It’s so funny how “well traveled” Europeans are the most parochial people on the planet. You do understand there are places in the world outside of Northern Europe?

Agree. They can be quite chauvinistic. And their obvious and casual racism seems to be totally invisible to them. Meanwhile it's obvious to the rest of us.

This mudslinging repeats every few months and gets kind of ridiculous. Newsflash to everyone quibbling over who qualifies as “well-travelled”. The most well-travelled people in DC are not on DCUM. There are thousands of people from all over the world working at the World Bank, IMF, IDB, etc and they leave most of us in the dust. But, guess what, they are not competing with one another as there are no prizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone so offended by the op noting she is well travelled!! We know what she meant.

Maybe OP can tell us herself in her own words.

It really doesn't matter for the OPs question. I would say I'm well traveled. I have been to about 45 countries over 5 continents (missing Antarctica, which I don't plan to visit despite having several friends who have done the Linblad cruises, and Australia, which I would like to visit), and lived outside the US for 9 years in 3 countries. But the earlier poster who has been to 120 countries is definitely better traveled than me and might argue with my assessment of me being well traveled. I will take OP at her word that she is well traveled enough to understand the pros and cons of owning a house and spending an extended time in another country. That's not what she is asking about.

I wouldn't necessarily count the most number of countries as a measure of 'well-travelled". Do these people check off the US after three nights in New York, France after a day at the Louvre/Eiffel Tower and the UK after a trip to Buckingham Palace?

I'd consider someone better traveled who spends weeks or months in fewer countries but goes beyond the"top ten" in the guide books, meets the locals, and travels to lesser known spots.

My husband has been to many many countries, but sometimes doesn't get to see much more than the airport, the hotel and the conference room.

[Anonymous]

OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

LOL. Europeans take a three hour train ride to visit an adjoining country and think that makes them “well traveled.”

Not to mention criticizing Americans for exhibiting "braggadocious behavior" while bragging "compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway." Sounds like the stereotypical "ugly..."