Please help me plan our exploratory trip to plan a retirement-in-Europe second home

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the update OP. I'm the original Malta/Switzerland poster. Your approach seems very similar to what we are looking for, although the ocean is more important to you.

We don't speak French at all and that seems like a really hard language to learn as an older adult. We have at least the basics in Spanish, Italian and German. We will spend some time exploring Northern Spain as people here have suggested. It sounds like a good option.

[Anonymous]

OP have you considered any of the towns in southern Portugal, in the Algarve? Tavira for example looks really nice.

[Anonymous]

Personally I would want a spot where I am not the rich lady coming in buying the nicest place in town (for 800k, you would many places) pissing off the locals. The South of France or Barcelona area are great because you would be normal affluent and not an anomaly.

[Anonymous]

Gdansk

[Anonymous]

We had a lovely time in Piran, Slovenia last summer and loved that stretch of the Adriatic coast (did a boat ride to Croatia and Italy). Though we were in Slovenia, it felt more like Italy (and we loved the rest of Slovenia too). You might also consider Trieste, which is on that same stretch of coast and has a fascinating history.

[Anonymous]

We also have a friend who spends the summers in Beaulieu and loves it there—quite close to Nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had a lovely time in Piran, Slovenia last summer and loved that stretch of the Adriatic coast (did a boat ride to Croatia and Italy). Though we were in Slovenia, it felt more like Italy (and we loved the rest of Slovenia too). You might also consider Trieste, which is on that same stretch of coast and has a fascinating history.

Yes! Trieste is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, on a practical matter... you need to look into potential tax issues if you plan to buy property and live part-time in Europe.

DP. I'm currently in the market for a house in Germany, but this is true of anywhere in Europe: as long as you spend no more than 90/180 days in Europe, you dont pay taxes as a resident. You're considered a visitor/tourist. So OP's plan to live 4-5 months per year there is totally fine as long as they carefully track their days and split the time over at least 2 trips.

As for property taxes, in Germany, they are laughably cheap. On a half million euro property that just fell through for us, taxes were like €50 per quarter. Basically nothing.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for these new location ideas. Researching them all . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

I think the well-traveled remark got some posters' backs up as they like to consider that THEY are the MOST well traveled ...
Anyway, I think your plan is well thought out and something we would love to do as well. This is something that many older British people do...spend 3-4 months a year in France or Portugal or Spain etc. like Florida snow-birding but in Europe. It's not an unknown phenomenon and totally doable on your budget. Don't have any recs except to say, check out the show Cheap European Houses on RTE for some fun ideas! I believe there is an IG acct as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

OK, that’s not “extremely well traveled.” Certainly not by DCUM standards, and probably not even by ordinary American standards. You vastly oversold yourself OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

OK, that’s not “extremely well traveled.” Certainly not by DCUM standards, and probably not even by ordinary American standards. You vastly oversold yourself OP!

Just stop. You are such a bore and this is irrelevant to the question. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Also OP, you didn’t address visa considerations. Are you just going to keep to the 90/180 Schengen rule? If so, that will vastly limit what times of year you can be there, ie, you can’t stay from late Spring through late autumn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

I think the well-traveled remark got some posters' backs up as they like to consider that THEY are the MOST well traveled ...
Anyway, I think your plan is well thought out and something we would love to do as well. This is something that many older British people do...spend 3-4 months a year in France or Portugal or Spain etc. like Florida snow-birding but in Europe. It's not an unknown phenomenon and totally doable on your budget. Don't have any recs except to say, check out the show Cheap European Houses on RTE for some fun ideas! I believe there is an IG acct as well.

Not so many Brits doing this post Brexit. They sold their properties in droves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP checking in again after getting busy at work. There's lot of good advice in here. I'd like to respond to some of your questions, even though I can tell some of you you didn't read my previous responses before giving me a hard time.

Starting off with the most persistent question of "how dare you claim to be well traveled." No, I haven't been to 120 countries. But I've lived abroad several times including Western and Eastern Europe and, over my 50+ years, spent a couple of decades on monthly flights to a wide range of countries, as well as many longer extended stays for vacations. It's plenty for me to know I'd like a smallish home as a jumping off point to explore countries that are not the USA under Trump rule. Getting away to beauty and culture is the point. And while we've run into some wannabe fascists in Europe, it's not quite the same as running into them in DC where we feel pressure to somehow DO something about it. (Tried, the insurrectionist got elected again.)

Thanks for the feedback on Malta and Mallorca. Thinking about it.

Thanks for the suggestion about Switzerland. Nope. No ocean, and not looking to climb serious Alp-size mountains as a past-time. And the time I've spent there taught me that this is a closed off society to people who haven't been around for at least a generation. I don't need the best new friends of my life, but the Swiss can be pretty cold.

Thanks for the reminder that we can't buy a car in Italy. I had forgotten that my friend warned me about that. She still makes it work for the 4-6 months she spends there.

Yes, we can see 10 cities in 3 weeks. It won't be fun, but this is a research trip and it's most time I can get away. No, as I said previously, it's not to settle on any one place during this trip -- much less buy. It's to cull the list, so that we can go back and do the real research.

If $800K isn't enough but we fall in love with Cascais or the like, we'll up our budget.

How will we take care of the property when we're away? We'll look for a caretaker or property manager to hire as we have with our other "second" home. Stuff will break. Maybe we'll offer the house as a home stay when we're away to ward off squatters. We'll survive.

Why don't we just live where our friends live or talk to them about this? We have talked to them. It comes with a lot of pressure to live them. Don't wanna. They live too far from the ocean, and that's one our top criteria. But we certainly can go visit them on the occasional weekend or host them more frequently than we see them at present.

Yes, I recognize that we may make only a couple of close-ish friends if we spent 4-5 months a year in one of these towns. I've done it before and will do it again. And my best friend who lives this kind of life has made a good group of friends, mixed group of expat and Italian.

What else? YES, we realize it's hot. We like heat. We've spent spring and fall on these coasts and fine them perfectly lovely. We will avoid August, or if we go, we'll realize that that will be when we're visiting our mountain dwelling friends.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered practical advice. And those who understood that I was signaling "not total beginners" by saying that we were well-travelled.

OK, that’s not “extremely well traveled.” Certainly not by DCUM standards, and probably not even by ordinary American standards. You vastly oversold yourself OP!

Just stop. You are such a bore and this is irrelevant to the question. Move on.

It’s relevant to the broader point that Americans routinely exaggerate their credentials and life experience.