Please help me plan our exploratory trip to plan a retirement-in-Europe second home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re second guessing you because some of this sounds like a crazy way to choose a place to live for the last years of your life.

We're choosing where to spend 4 months annually, not the last years of our lives. We've been in DC since 1990 and will keep our home here, also have a beachhouse, and we have plentry of friends in these countries. Is that really any crazier than all the people fleeing DC for mid-western or southern towns? It's entirely rational to us. We're proactively searching for a beautiful place to spend time, go on adventures, take up new hobbies, etc. We're really excited about it!

Not to be snarky, but if you have plenty of friends in these countries, why aren’t you moving near them? Why aren’t they giving you advice?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

OP doesn't need your snarky advice, she posted in shorthand on an anonymous message board. We all know what well-traveled means and if you think she is only well-traveled for an American, so what? This is DCUM, most of us are American.

PP here. Please, by all means, educate us. What does “well traveled” mean to an American? Florida plus Bahamas? .

Are you asking for a geography lesson of Europe v the United Statea?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Visiting US States is not like visiting European countries.

I am asking if you need a geography lesson because the US is enormous. Europeans can hop on a train and be in another country the same way Americans might travel from state to state. Of course it is easier for Europeans to travel throughout Europe. That's not a flex.

OK sure. Visit Alabama and Austria and tell me which provided a better cultural experience. Or Norway and North Dakota. It’s not the same my dear.

What are you trying to say? I've been all those places and enjoyed them all. No they're not the same, which is why I chose to visit them. They all have different cultures and that's a good thing.

I agree. What a narrow minded simpleton that PP is.

Ha ha, I never thought I’d see DCUM defend Alabama and North Dakota!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does “extremely well traveled” mean? I have been to more than 120 countries and would never say something so obnoxious!

This is your contribution to the thread - a (humble?) brag, gratuitous insult to OP, and absolutely nothing helpful or relevant to the question?

OP, I’m most familiar with France of the options you’ve listed, but I’d personally look somewhere in the Alps within an hour or two of Geneva, particularly if you like to ski. It’s a gorgeous area, Geneva is easy to get to and provides access to an international airport with direct flights from the East Coast, and it’s really beautiful. Would also consider Northern Italy around Milan.

Oh! Switzerland is a great idea. Love it there. Plus, a lot people speak English there. You can chose whether you want to live in the French, Italian or German speaking parts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does “extremely well traveled” mean? I have been to more than 120 countries and would never say something so obnoxious!

This is your contribution to the thread - a (humble?) brag, gratuitous insult to OP, and absolutely nothing helpful or relevant to the question?

OP, I’m most familiar with France of the options you’ve listed, but I’d personally look somewhere in the Alps within an hour or two of Geneva, particularly if you like to ski. It’s a gorgeous area, Geneva is easy to get to and provides access to an international airport with direct flights from the East Coast, and it’s really beautiful. Would also consider Northern Italy around Milan.

Oh! Switzerland is a great idea. Love it there. Plus, a lot people speak English there. You can chose whether you want to live in the French, Italian or German speaking parts.

Switzerland has a lot of restrictions on foreigners buying property, getting residence permits, etc. You need at least some level of one of the languages to be able to deal with the local bureaucracy, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally I think you’ve got it all wrong, OP. I’m not sure how you can expect to move somewhere where there’s a “sense of community” when you’re not even planning on living there half time. You won’t be viewed as a local by many - you’ll be viewed as a visitor. Also, if you’re so damned “well traveled,” by doing what you’re planning on doing you’re giving that up. You’ll be staying for months on end in one place.

So why choose one place and why go through the hassle of residency and buying? Spend a few weeks or months at a different place each time instead while keeping your DMV home base. That’s what we do.

I agree with this. But it’s also nice to have a pied-à-terre in Europe to use as a “home base.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here and just checking back for the first time. Thanks for all the responses!

Based on your responses, so far we have: Toulon, Ghent, Porto, Lille, San Sebastian. Please do keep them coming!

Yes, by well-traveled, I do mean that we've visited all these countries several times (among many others), and have narrowed our list. I don't need more than 2 days in each place to know if it's something to make the list for the next round of much longer visits. As for medical care, I'm late 50s and my husband is a little older. None of our parents needed medical attention before their 80s, which is why we feel okay about a 15-year plan to own. But yes, we'd like to be no more than an hour away from a good hospital. We don't mind heat, but will probably avoid being there in August.

I used to be well-traveled but haven't been for a while. With that said, I loved Cascais in Portugal. It's a little coastal town just outside Lisbon. Seemed like a lot of expats there, in addition to Portuguese people. Maybe it's too touristy after a while - I can't say.

Your plan sounds wonderful and I don't know why there are 15 pages of people sh***ing on it. If you move to a place and don't like it - guess what, you can leave. In the meantime, this sounds like a great adventure.

Portugal is completely overrun these days.

DP A PP referred to Portugal as "pedestrian." Is it overrun with tourists or ex-pats or what is the negative about Portugal? It looks lovely.

It’s overrun with tourists and expats and a very basic destination these days.

What a stupid comment. An entire country labeled as “basic”? Is travel some kind of IG competition to you?

Quite the opposite actually. We prefer to spend time in quieter, less visited places. Portugal is definitely not that.

I disagree. When we visited Portugal, we stayed with locals in a small town in the middle of nowhere. No tourists in sight. And this was in July! And no, it was not hot because we were near the coast and there was always a cool ocean breeze (so cool that we had to buy light sweaters and jackets….in July!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does “extremely well traveled” mean? I have been to more than 120 countries and would never say something so obnoxious!

This is your contribution to the thread - a (humble?) brag, gratuitous insult to OP, and absolutely nothing helpful or relevant to the question?

OP, I’m most familiar with France of the options you’ve listed, but I’d personally look somewhere in the Alps within an hour or two of Geneva, particularly if you like to ski. It’s a gorgeous area, Geneva is easy to get to and provides access to an international airport with direct flights from the East Coast, and it’s really beautiful. Would also consider Northern Italy around Milan.

Oh! Switzerland is a great idea. Love it there. Plus, a lot people speak English there. You can chose whether you want to live in the French, Italian or German speaking parts.

Switzerland has a lot of restrictions on foreigners buying property, getting residence permits, etc. You need at least some level of one of the languages to be able to deal with the local bureaucracy, etc.

It's impossible, it was even for Tina Turner. They also treat Germans as aliens, imagine Americans.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What's the timeline? Can you wait? The anti-American sentiment is incredibly strong right now all over Europe - European here. It's borderline hate.

Do.you have evidence of that directed to actual individuals? Have a few friends who have gone over the last few months, said it was fine. Sure may have gotten a couple of comments about Trump, etc, but not directed at them in any way, and only in passing. Other posts here have said the same.

This is the problem with Americans, 100% delulu. You have at least 2 Europeans here telling you that everyone can't stand you and you say it's fine because someone traveled for a week there. Of course it was fine, they want you to spend your money and gtfo.

Why are you hanging out on an American message board with the deluded, then? Sounds like somebody likes us.

Because I work in DC?!

[Anonymous]

Omg, Americans are getting offended when someone points out that they are not really traveled. They would not survive a year in Paris without tranquilizers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:European here. Word of advice OP: don’t tell people in Europe that you’re “extremely well traveled traveled.” That would be social suicide and exactly the type of braggadocious behavior we’ve come to expect from Americans. And compared to us, I guarantee you’re not well traveled anyway. Maybe by American standards. Also don’t discount the difficulties you will have with language acquisition over the age of 50. I see Americans here all the time bumbling around with absolutely unintelligible Spanish and French. You don’t want to be that person.

OP doesn't need your snarky advice, she posted in shorthand on an anonymous message board. We all know what well-traveled means and if you think she is only well-traveled for an American, so what? This is DCUM, most of us are American.

PP here. Please, by all means, educate us. What does “well traveled” mean to an American? Florida plus Bahamas? .

Are you asking for a geography lesson of Europe v the United Statea?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Visiting US States is not like visiting European countries.

I am asking if you need a geography lesson because the US is enormous. Europeans can hop on a train and be in another country the same way Americans might travel from state to state. Of course it is easier for Europeans to travel throughout Europe. That's not a flex.

OK sure. Visit Alabama and Austria and tell me which provided a better cultural experience. Or Norway and North Dakota. It’s not the same my dear.

What are you trying to say? I've been all those places and enjoyed them all. No they're not the same, which is why I chose to visit them. They all have different cultures and that's a good thing.

What’s wrong with Huntsville and Mobile?

North Dakota is a huge growth state. I suspect the growth in North Dakota is much higher than in Norway.

[Anonymous]

Another vote for Lyon although it is not near the beach.

[Anonymous]

If you are extremely well traveled you should have narrowed it down more already! You cannot possibly cover Spain, France, Italy, and Portugal in 3 weeks.

Secondly, unless you are a US citizen, you need to look at the legal aspects of long term visas - each country has its own rules, and some make it (much) easier than others to stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re second guessing you because some of this sounds like a crazy way to choose a place to live for the last years of your life.

We're choosing where to spend 4 months annually, not the last years of our lives. We've been in DC since 1990 and will keep our home here, also have a beachhouse, and we have plentry of friends in these countries. Is that really any crazier than all the people fleeing DC for mid-western or southern towns? It's entirely rational to us. We're proactively searching for a beautiful place to spend time, go on adventures, take up new hobbies, etc. We're really excited about it!

I’m happy that you are excited and am excited for you! If I were you, I would do a ton more research first, but travel guides, some culture books, watch expat YouTube videos etc. because the country you choose matters. You must have a preference. You say you have friends in all 4 of these countries - have you told them? Time for some long conversations. I’d say you got to narrow it down to 1 or 2 countries from a culture, legal/immigration, language, perspective before you look at specific towns. Or, put less pressure on yourself and just start traveling and exploring freely without a deadline! And ask yourself; which language will we both ! be able to reach the highest level of proficiency realistically? Which hobbies may we want to pick up?
What do people our age do in these countries for fun? Which country is most reliable, if there is legal or medical trouble (hint: not Italy)? Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm getting a lot of typical DCUM responses. While I appreciate them, many are just basically second guessing all the things I tried to name up front in my post. Yes, we're fully aware that we'll need a long-stay visa allowing us 90 days out of every 180. We know the places I named are hot. We know that renting is a better option for some, but are choosing buying because we want to become part of a community. We know that we'll be older (I'm in my mid-50s0 and that having nearby emergency medical care is a consideration. Yes, my French and Italian need brushing up. As does DH's Spanish.

Thanks for the Aix-en-Provence idea, PP.

Anywhere else outside of France anyone?

Northern Spain. Close to France. Gorgeous. Great food. Fairly easy to get to. Spain has legal options for extended stays iirc. Medical care likely the best of the 4 or tied with France.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does “extremely well traveled” mean? I have been to more than 120 countries and would never say something so obnoxious!

This is your contribution to the thread - a (humble?) brag, gratuitous insult to OP, and absolutely nothing helpful or relevant to the question?

OP, I’m most familiar with France of the options you’ve listed, but I’d personally look somewhere in the Alps within an hour or two of Geneva, particularly if you like to ski. It’s a gorgeous area, Geneva is easy to get to and provides access to an international airport with direct flights from the East Coast, and it’s really beautiful. Would also consider Northern Italy around Milan.

Oh! Switzerland is a great idea. Love it there. Plus, a lot people speak English there. You can chose whether you want to live in the French, Italian or German speaking parts.

Switzerland has a lot of restrictions on foreigners buying property, getting residence permits, etc. You need at least some level of one of the languages to be able to deal with the local bureaucracy, etc.

It's impossible, it was even for Tina Turner. They also treat Germans as aliens, imagine Americans.

+1. Switzerland is a fortress, even for its direct neighbors, impossible.