Which University did the National Merit finalists go to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

At Alabama is you are a NMSF, you don’t really see the 1200 kids. Different dorms, different classes.

Alabama is a huge school…of course you will see those kids and even have classes with them.

Are you claiming that you can take any major you want and will only be in class with NMSF kids?

That logistically isn’t possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

The point is is that there are enough top academic students at a lot of colleges, to provide an academic peer group. No top academic kid will be held back or stifled by attending a school below that arbitrary T-50 designation.

It all depends what you are after in life.

MIT spawns tons of student startups that attract VC and Alabama spawns almost none.

So, sure…you may find your group that you find at your same intellect…but it’s clearly a different attitude towards life so the kid looking to create a great new company may feel quite stifled.

You are ridiculous. No kid looking to create a new company will be stifled anywhere. If anything they are more likely to be actually stifled if surrounded by a bunch of people gunning for the exact same thing. Nearly every college we visited has an incubator lab funded by that college's alumni. A student at a small school may be in a much better position to get the funding they need before graduation.

Well, this was a comparison between MIT and Alabama…not a small school.

But if your thesis is true, why are there few startups coming out these random schools you describe.

Gunning is the wrong word…startups aren’t in competition with each other unless they literally are competing in the same market. You want to find other students that want to be co-founders with you.

This poster doesn’t know a thing about Alabama. Yes, it has a startup culture and yes, it has a well-funded research culture for kids who want it. It’s not cutthroat and the really smart ones are supportive of each other. Great environment. And the business school funds student ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oklahoma has an amazing scholarship for NMFs.

Didn’t they recently cut back on their aid to NMFs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

At Alabama is you are a NMSF, you don’t really see the 1200 kids. Different dorms, different classes.

Alabama is a huge school…of course you will see those kids and even have classes with them.

Are you claiming that you can take any major you want and will only be in class with NMSF kids?

That logistically isn’t possible.

You really don’t. Most NMSFs are in the programs and have special smaller classes and they also often start as sophomores with 300-level because AP credits transfer. You might have one or two at the start, but those are survey if you don’t test out. But that’s it. At Alabama, it’s really a school within a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oklahoma has an amazing scholarship for NMFs.

Didn’t they recently cut back on their aid to NMFs?

They did. Tuition is still covered for up to 5 years but housing is only covered for the first year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

At Alabama is you are a NMSF, you don’t really see the 1200 kids. Different dorms, different classes.

Alabama is a huge school…of course you will see those kids and even have classes with them.

Are you claiming that you can take any major you want and will only be in class with NMSF kids?

That logistically isn’t possible.

You really don’t. Most NMSFs are in the programs and have special smaller classes and they also often start as sophomores with 300-level because AP credits transfer. You might have one or two at the start, but those are survey if you don’t test out. But that’s it. At Alabama, it’s really a school within a school.

Especially if you go into one of the cohorts like Blount, Witt or Randall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

The point is is that there are enough top academic students at a lot of colleges, to provide an academic peer group. No top academic kid will be held back or stifled by attending a school below that arbitrary T-50 designation.

It all depends what you are after in life.

MIT spawns tons of student startups that attract VC and Alabama spawns almost none.

So, sure…you may find your group that you find at your same intellect…but it’s clearly a different attitude towards life so the kid looking to create a great new company may feel quite stifled.

You are ridiculous. No kid looking to create a new company will be stifled anywhere. If anything they are more likely to be actually stifled if surrounded by a bunch of people gunning for the exact same thing. Nearly every college we visited has an incubator lab funded by that college's alumni. A student at a small school may be in a much better position to get the funding they need before graduation.

Well, this was a comparison between MIT and Alabama…not a small school.

But if your thesis is true, why are there few startups coming out these random schools you describe.

Gunning is the wrong word…startups aren’t in competition with each other unless they literally are competing in the same market. You want to find other students that want to be co-founders with you.

This poster doesn’t know a thing about Alabama. Yes, it has a startup culture and yes, it has a well-funded research culture for kids who want it. It’s not cutthroat and the really smart ones are supportive of each other. Great environment. And the business school funds student ideas.

wtf are you taking about? MIT grads have literally founded 100x more successful companies…and that’s being generous.

Nobody gives a shit about the Alabama incubator that may give your idea $25k. MIT has that in spades…as well as top VCs that BTW are located in SV and Boston.

There is no cap on 3rd party VC funding for MIT grads. Every good idea will get funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A ranking of schools that don't specifically give scholarships to NMF students, particularly per capita, might be meaningful. When listed with schools that are giving scholarships, it isn't very meaningful.

+ 1 Took the words right out of my mouth! For instance, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Northeastern do; UVA, Michigan, ND do not.

Here is the data from the 2023-2024 year. Looking at the roughly top 50 ranked institutions based on total Merit Scholars, I backed out the scholarships that were given directly from NMSC and then calculated the % of the entering freshman class in 2023-2024 this represented and resorted the order based on this. Note that there is a ~18,000x gradient in this metric in the top 50 (as defined by total scholars). As previous posters have mentioned, the results looking at the data this way are not surprising (although Tulsa is very robust, had not appreciated that).

NMSC %
MIT 9.4%
Harvard 8.8%
Stanford 7.6%
Princeton 7.1%
Duke 6.8%
Yale 6.1%
Penn 5.9%
Rice 5.8%
Brown 4.6%
Columbia 4.0%
University of Tulsa 3.7%
Northwestern 3.2%
Johns Hopkins 3.0%
Georgia Tech 2.9%
Georgetown 2.7%
Dartmouth 2.3%
Bowdoin 2.2%
Cornell 2.1%
Wash U St Louis 1.9%
Vanderbilt 1.8%
Alabama (Tuscaloosa) 1.3%
USC 1.3%
Michigan 1.2%
UCLA 1.2%
Berkeley 1.2%
UT Austin 1.2%
Florida 1.1%
Case Western Reserve 1.0%
Emory 1.0%
University of Virginia 1.0%
Tufts 0.8%
Purdue 0.4%
UMD 0.4%
Boston University 0.4%
Oklahoma 0.3%
Northeastern 0.3%
Texas A&M 0.3%
University of Georgia 0.3%
UT Dallas 0.2%
Fordham 0.2%
Minnesota 0.2%
University of South Carolina 0.2%
Auburn 0.2%
Arizona 0.2%
UCF 0.1%
UCF 0.1%
USF 0.1%
Michigan State 0.1%
Clemson 0.1%
Indiana 0.1%
Florida State 0.1%
Arizona State 0.1%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

At Alabama is you are a NMSF, you don’t really see the 1200 kids. Different dorms, different classes.

Alabama is a huge school…of course you will see those kids and even have classes with them.

Are you claiming that you can take any major you want and will only be in class with NMSF kids?

That logistically isn’t possible.

You really don’t. Most NMSFs are in the programs and have special smaller classes and they also often start as sophomores with 300-level because AP credits transfer. You might have one or two at the start, but those are survey if you don’t test out. But that’s it. At Alabama, it’s really a school within a school.

I’m curious, are you speaking of the Honors College? When I looked I saw 2 honors courses for CS and 3 for math, all intro. Are you referring to something else?

https://catalog.ua.edu/search/?scontext=courses&fscaturl=&gscaturl=&search=Honors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

At Alabama is you are a NMSF, you don’t really see the 1200 kids. Different dorms, different classes.

Alabama is a huge school…of course you will see those kids and even have classes with them.

Are you claiming that you can take any major you want and will only be in class with NMSF kids?

That logistically isn’t possible.

You really don’t. Most NMSFs are in the programs and have special smaller classes and they also often start as sophomores with 300-level because AP credits transfer. You might have one or two at the start, but those are survey if you don’t test out. But that’s it. At Alabama, it’s really a school within a school.

Alabama has 70 different possible majors.

Explain logistically how somehow you take classes with only people that represent 5% of the entire school (at most) throughout your entire four years in all 70 majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

The point is is that there are enough top academic students at a lot of colleges, to provide an academic peer group. No top academic kid will be held back or stifled by attending a school below that arbitrary T-50 designation.

It all depends what you are after in life.

MIT spawns tons of student startups that attract VC and Alabama spawns almost none.

So, sure…you may find your group that you find at your same intellect…but it’s clearly a different attitude towards life so the kid looking to create a great new company may feel quite stifled.

You are ridiculous. No kid looking to create a new company will be stifled anywhere. If anything they are more likely to be actually stifled if surrounded by a bunch of people gunning for the exact same thing. Nearly every college we visited has an incubator lab funded by that college's alumni. A student at a small school may be in a much better position to get the funding they need before graduation.

Well, this was a comparison between MIT and Alabama…not a small school.

But if your thesis is true, why are there few startups coming out these random schools you describe.

Gunning is the wrong word…startups aren’t in competition with each other unless they literally are competing in the same market. You want to find other students that want to be co-founders with you.

This poster doesn’t know a thing about Alabama. Yes, it has a startup culture and yes, it has a well-funded research culture for kids who want it. It’s not cutthroat and the really smart ones are supportive of each other. Great environment. And the business school funds student ideas.

wtf are you taking about? MIT grads have literally founded 100x more successful companies…and that’s being generous.

Nobody gives a shit about the Alabama incubator that may give your idea $25k. MIT has that in spades…as well as top VCs that BTW are located in SV and Boston.

There is no cap on 3rd party VC funding for MIT grads. Every good idea will get funding.

PP indicated Alabama had little to no start-up culture, which simply isn’t true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A ranking of schools that don't specifically give scholarships to NMF students, particularly per capita, might be meaningful. When listed with schools that are giving scholarships, it isn't very meaningful.

+ 1 Took the words right out of my mouth! For instance, Vanderbilt, Emory, and Northeastern do; UVA, Michigan, ND do not.

Pretty sure all these schools offer some form of very competitive academic scholarships for extraordinary students. And none of them are based on a PSAT score. You are spreading nonsense for whatever reason.

The national merit finalist distinction is not the cause of a scholarship at schools such as Vanderbilt, Emory, Michigan, UVA or Notre Dame. It might be one part of the entire application, but scholarships are awarded for a lot more than that. Whereas some schools like Alabama, UT-Dallas, Tulsa are gunning specifically for students with that award and awarding scholarships accordingly. And I say, great. Good for them.

If national merit finalists are reflective of the academic quality of a college's students, then the only measure that matters is the percentage of students with that distinction. So looking at the list, that would be MIT, Vanderbilt, Harvard, Stanford, USC, Yale, Princeton, Rice, Duke, Emory, Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Florida, and UT-Dallas, which are the only schools that have more than 4 percent of students with that distinction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]

So much for only finding “intellectual equals” at expensive, selective privates.

This is nonsensical. Clearly if you attend a school like MIT where the average SAT score is a 1570…you basically will run into your intellectual equal all the time in every class vs Alabama where the average is 1200.

The point is is that there are enough top academic students at a lot of colleges, to provide an academic peer group. No top academic kid will be held back or stifled by attending a school below that arbitrary T-50 designation.

It all depends what you are after in life.

MIT spawns tons of student startups that attract VC and Alabama spawns almost none.

So, sure…you may find your group that you find at your same intellect…but it’s clearly a different attitude towards life so the kid looking to create a great new company may feel quite stifled.

You are ridiculous. No kid looking to create a new company will be stifled anywhere. If anything they are more likely to be actually stifled if surrounded by a bunch of people gunning for the exact same thing. Nearly every college we visited has an incubator lab funded by that college's alumni. A student at a small school may be in a much better position to get the funding they need before graduation.

Well, this was a comparison between MIT and Alabama…not a small school.

But if your thesis is true, why are there few startups coming out these random schools you describe.

Gunning is the wrong word…startups aren’t in competition with each other unless they literally are competing in the same market. You want to find other students that want to be co-founders with you.

This poster doesn’t know a thing about Alabama. Yes, it has a startup culture and yes, it has a well-funded research culture for kids who want it. It’s not cutthroat and the really smart ones are supportive of each other. Great environment. And the business school funds student ideas.

wtf are you taking about? MIT grads have literally founded 100x more successful companies…and that’s being generous.

Nobody gives a shit about the Alabama incubator that may give your idea $25k. MIT has that in spades…as well as top VCs that BTW are located in SV and Boston.

There is no cap on 3rd party VC funding for MIT grads. Every good idea will get funding.

PP indicated Alabama had little to no start-up culture, which simply isn’t true.

Well, shouldn’t a school with a start-up culture have… I don’t know…successful startups?

Every college claims to have a start-up culture and touts their little incubator.

[Anonymous]

Seems like the fundamental question this thread tries to engage is what does the number of NMF's at a particular institution tell you?

One challenge with this question is we don't have great data on NMF destinations, but we do for Merit Scholars themselves. It does seem to me that if you want to use Merit Scholars as an informative measure about the rest of the students (including the latent NMF number), you need to remove institution-derived scholarships and focus on the NMSC-derived scholarships because these are "exchangeable" with no constraints or specificity to them. Where these students go if probably a sentinel for other students (i.e. NMF that didn't win the ultimate scholarship).

As PP showed, need to then adjust for the size of the freshman class. In some institutions, we are talking about ~1000, others ~10,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alabama - also accepted to the Blount Scholars program. 5 years paid!

Other schools we strongly considered for NMF packages:

Oklahoma
UT Dallas
U Tulsa

Mine wanted better peer quality so none of these were on their list.

My kids peers are similarly situated students who believe that saving $400K on undergraduate tuition is not, by definition, a foolish decision.