Why Math is so weak in private schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because acceleration doesn’t work and it doesn’t help students become engineers it actually hurts.

How does it hurt?

DP. If students are fuzzy on concepts they learned years ago it could hurt them.

Many top engineering programs will only let students place out of the first level calculus class so kids will be repeating any material learned beyond that.

I have an engineering degree and I can tell you that's not true.

DS's engineering program allows you to start where you think you belong, but if you get below a C (and C is the true class average) you have to start over at Calc 1. Happens often enough that most don't risk it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

[Anonymous]

DC schools are not advanced in math because the boards are mostly lawyers and DC business randos who have limited mathematical education. And in general very little intellectual curiosity. They do value writing and hard work, though.

What people in the DC area perceive as advanced math, particularly in private schools, is just a joke in SF and Boston. Although the teaching can be excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC schools are not advanced in math because the boards are mostly lawyers and DC business randos who have limited mathematical education. And in general very little intellectual curiosity. They do value writing and hard work, though.

What people in the DC area perceive as advanced math, particularly in private schools, is just a joke in SF and Boston. Although the teaching can be excellent.

Yes, but what people in the DC area perceive as advanced math is miles ahead the Midwest. I'm outside of Chicago on the wealthy East side off the lake and we've noticed that standard grade level math is a full year behind standard grade level math in Virginia. There is no acceleration or even leveling until 5th or 6th grade, so we don't have 7th graders taking Algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC schools are not advanced in math because the boards are mostly lawyers and DC business randos who have limited mathematical education. And in general very little intellectual curiosity. They do value writing and hard work, though.

What people in the DC area perceive as advanced math, particularly in private schools, is just a joke in SF and Boston. Although the teaching can be excellent.

Yes, but what people in the DC area perceive as advanced math is miles ahead the Midwest. I'm outside of Chicago on the wealthy East side off the lake and we've noticed that standard grade level math is a full year behind standard grade level math in Virginia. There is no acceleration or even leveling until 5th or 6th grade, so we don't have 7th graders taking Algebra.

What a dark world.

[Anonymous]

Wait until you find out what the math offerings in rural communities look like. As far as I know, the school district I graduated from (1 HS, 1 MS, 2 ES) still doesn't offer algebra until 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This happened to my child when transitioning to a private 9-12. She failed the placement test and was put back into Algebra 1. It stung, but in hindsight we are able to acknowledge she didn’t have a strong enough grasp of the subject.

Im sure daughter is grateful you gave her the opportunity to build a better foundation that will support her throughout HS, college, and her career. I know several parents who backed out of private school when the placement test didn’t go as planned and kept accelerating their kid in public only to be “shocked” by low AP test scores and low SAT scores.

The SAT is one people aren't expecting. Two things happen there (in our experience with our accelerated kid): the 'easy stuff' on the SAT was actually skipped for accelerated students; and they rest of it is stuff they took "so long ago" that they don't remember it and need to relearn it. We had one kid accelerate in public and he needed a catch up tutor for the SAT even though he was taking multivar at the time. We did not let our younger kids accelerate as much and they did far better on the SAT without tutors and in math generally.

Yeah, and they are so advanced in English that they forget how to read and need tutoring for the verbal section.

Or maybe they just skimmed through weak classes for years without learning much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just compared the math level (normal not accelerate) of my 5th grader school and RSM and it’s like day and night.

my son goes to RSM and they teach math totally different than his diocese school (and while I’d say his day school is slightly behind the public schools in math), it’s not so much as more accelerated than his school, it’s a totally different approach. My son isn’t particularly gifted, he just really likes math and it’s been great for him. They emphasize the logic over the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid at a top private (known for its rigor) didn’t go beyond Calc BC but is thriving in college in a STEM field. I was worried for a while that they didn’t have the advanced math classes that some publics have, but being incredibly well prepared given the classes they could take has been great for our kid.

I was going to say that I seem similar things. The private schools are usually good at helping students learn how to learn. Private school alumni sometimes end up in fantastic grad schools in hard sciences and math. TJ parents may think those kids were dumb if they ended up at Pomona, Williams or Swarthmore or even Wooster or Lawrence, but a lot of grads from those small colleges end up doing well in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do school just hire the best math teachers? I don’t see them doing that.

Because those people can make multiple times a teachers pay in engineering without the stress of dealing with kids. Math teachers get paid the same as English teacher . Public school can't do anything about that but private school maybe can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

Um a bunch of DMV private's have multi. Those classes are smaller but the teacher is normally teaching other classes too so it's not a separate hire.

[Anonymous]

I would trust more a public in VA than a private in DC for math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

It’s not that privates would have to hire a math teacher fully dedicated to teaching multivariate calculus. Their math teachers can teach other math classes and multivariate when needed.

[Anonymous]

My kid's 99th percentile quantitative reasoning score on the ERB CTP was only a 96th percentile score by independent school norms, and 97th for Classical Christian ones, which suggests that relatively speaking there are a far more high-performing math kids in private.

I will note that he's only accelerated to the point of the 8th grade algebra track, but this seems fine, because the class goes deeper into the material. The school will accelerate further with serious math phenoms - but his 99% didn't cut it.

You do often get more specialized courses being offered in giant publics that cater to an educated populace, especially giant selective publics like TJ, because the population base is so much larger. But large privates with a sufficient quantity of elite students can offer quite advanced courses (Sidwell offers linear algebra, Heights multivariable calculus, Flint Hill has both in their catalog).