Why Math is so weak in private schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

You really need to remove your bias against kids in private. Mine is at a highly regarded school for math. She is in honors math and the kid from TJ dropped the class because it was too hard.

What does this mean? Honors means nothing. What grade and class are they taking. My kid is in 10th taking calc bc. No private had that track when I called a few years ago to move to private.

Unfortunately, many parents equate rigor
with quality, and there are weird bragging rights that a class/program is hard.

I had a student at a school like this and the "teach yourself" model worked only for a few kids well. While some struggle and challenge is valid, there is a point when some teacher scaffolding is optimal for learning. This school was incredibly rigid and shockingly ineffective at supporting kids, all of whom are bright and had high standardized test scores for math. Basically kids quietly got tutors and supported each other through it.

The other school met the kids where they were and then offered opportunities for acceleration when my kid was ready. Kids at that school are in BC Calc as freshmen if they are assessed to handle it. My kid started in Geometry in 9th, BC in 11th, and a post-Calc class next year.

So IMO, the better private programs are not the arrogant and rigid ones, but the ones that are flexible, innovative, and offer lots of approaches to learn, meeting kids ad they develop.

Publics are probably not flexible per se, but can offer a lot of differentiation because there are so many kids, and I imagine that the magnets are able to attract the best teachers and curricula.

the other difference is logistics. Public school is usually elementary school, middle school then high school only having 9-12th grades. So it makes it hard to take classes beyond what is offered while in middle school.

A private school that is K-12 on one campus, or middle and high on one campus, makes it easier to do that

PP here. Logistics are a factor I guess but the innovative school is able to work within the confines of the upper school years. It's more a matter of mindset, values, and school/BOD leadership setting the institutional priorities accordingly.

The weaker school is riding on the coattails of its brand reputation, and devotes a lot of admin energy on special favors for various stakeholders. Eventually that might not work out well, but for now that model seems to fly. All I know is that our family will continue to write healthy checks to the innovative school. (We should get a refund from the lame one, as far as I am concerned.)

FWIW, I hope American schools (public and private) prioritize compensating teachers appropriately for excellence. Teacher quality is so much more important than beautiful buildings and politically-driven social fights. We all need to shift from optics and ideology and focus on what matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

Um a bunch of DMV private's have multi. Those classes are smaller but the teacher is normally teaching other classes too so it's not a separate hire.

That PP is so stupid that they don't even understand that "a few kids" is a normal size class at a good private school.

"a few" is generally understood to be 3-4 , no more than 5 at most. Are you suggesting it's normal for private schools to have classes of <5 kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

You really need to remove your bias against kids in private. Mine is at a highly regarded school for math. She is in honors math and the kid from TJ dropped the class because it was too hard.

What does this mean? Honors means nothing. What grade and class are they taking. My kid is in 10th taking calc bc. No private had that track when I called a few years ago to move to private.

Unfortunately, many parents equate rigor
with quality, and there are weird bragging rights that a class/program is hard.

I had a student at a school like this and the "teach yourself" model worked only for a few kids well. While some struggle and challenge is valid, there is a point when some teacher scaffolding is optimal for learning. This school was incredibly rigid and shockingly ineffective at supporting kids, all of whom are bright and had high standardized test scores for math. Basically kids quietly got tutors and supported each other through it.

The other school met the kids where they were and then offered opportunities for acceleration when my kid was ready. Kids at that school are in BC Calc as freshmen if they are assessed to handle it. My kid started in Geometry in 9th, BC in 11th, and a post-Calc class next year.

So IMO, the better private programs are not the arrogant and rigid ones, but the ones that are flexible, innovative, and offer lots of approaches to learn, meeting kids ad they develop.

Publics are probably not flexible per se, but can offer a lot of differentiation because there are so many kids, and I imagine that the magnets are able to attract the best teachers and curricula.

My kid has done private summer school classes and ended up staying in public. He has done public and private over the years. It really came down to the teacher. He had some good ones in private but the last one he had was terrible and the school did nothing to address it. He had planned to apply for that school. Public is hit or miss. In our county only a few magnet slots and mine got waitlisted. But, you don’t need magnet to be on a faster math track. We have found the more traditional ridged teaching works best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see that the top students in private schools do have math tutors or go to specialized schools like RSM to enhance their math knowledge. Why this is the case?

I was a math tutor (not with RSM) for many years. My students from private schools either a) needed additional support beyond what the school could reasonably offer or b) were using the summer to jump a level or get a head start. It wasn't related to the school not accelerating enough, but rather the opposite!

Most established private schools will extend the math curriculum as far as needed. Sometimes that top class (say, multivariable) will be quite small, but they're fully able to do it. If no one needs that class in a given year, they won't offer it. You just need to ask to confirm it will be a possibility in the future.

OP, are you asking in regard to a certain grade level? I've found these questions tend to pop up in middle school because many privates won't offer options beyond Algebra in those grades. At least from my perspective, this makes sense. My oldest is strong in math and I get the push for acceleration, but so often, it's not a good idea – pedagogically and developmentally. Having a strong, deep foundation in Algebra is SO much better than pushing through to Calculus with only a surface-level understanding of why things work. Believe me, it pays off later to have an excellent Algebra teacher who can make sure you really get it versus just memorizing the steps so you can zoom through. Your brain literally needs to be ready for those super abstract concepts!

This is such BS.

Publics are heads and tails ahead of privates in this space.

No private hires a teacher for a few kids to do multivariable calculus. LOL

You really need to remove your bias against kids in private. Mine is at a highly regarded school for math. She is in honors math and the kid from TJ dropped the class because it was too hard.

What does this mean? Honors means nothing. What grade and class are they taking. My kid is in 10th taking calc bc. No private had that track when I called a few years ago to move to private.

Unfortunately, many parents equate rigor
with quality, and there are weird bragging rights that a class/program is hard.

I had a student at a school like this and the "teach yourself" model worked only for a few kids well. While some struggle and challenge is valid, there is a point when some teacher scaffolding is optimal for learning. This school was incredibly rigid and shockingly ineffective at supporting kids, all of whom are bright and had high standardized test scores for math. Basically kids quietly got tutors and supported each other through it.

The other school met the kids where they were and then offered opportunities for acceleration when my kid was ready. Kids at that school are in BC Calc as freshmen if they are assessed to handle it. My kid started in Geometry in 9th, BC in 11th, and a post-Calc class next year.

So IMO, the better private programs are not the arrogant and rigid ones, but the ones that are flexible, innovative, and offer lots of approaches to learn, meeting kids ad they develop.

Publics are probably not flexible per se, but can offer a lot of differentiation because there are so many kids, and I imagine that the magnets are able to attract the best teachers and curricula.

the other difference is logistics. Public school is usually elementary school, middle school then high school only having 9-12th grades. So it makes it hard to take classes beyond what is offered while in middle school.

A private school that is K-12 on one campus, or middle and high on one campus, makes it easier to do that

Kids get bussed to another school or take it at community college.

[Anonymous]

In my kids school the teacher even uses YouTube for teaching math. It’s a school costing 50k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my kids school the teacher even uses YouTube for teaching math. It’s a school costing 50k a year.

We’ve had that in public and private schools. Our current public math teacher uses videos regularly. We gave up and hired a tutor a few hours a few as it wasn’t working for my kid. Bulk of teachers don’t teach anymore. It’s frustrating. I wonder how wel the teacher knows the material.

[Anonymous]

Great question. St Mary’s is atrocious. 5th grade has been adding decimals for the last several weeks. And the year is almost over. If parents didn’t supplement the kids would be way behind. The teach to the lowest common dominator (I guess that’s the Catholic thing to do).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really rich people don’t need to be advanced in math. Competent, yes, but they don’t need to take calculus as a 10th grader. They don’t become engineers or god forbid computer scientists. If they run a hedge fund, they hire quant nerds to do the hard work while they ski and deal-make with the other lacrosse bros from Dartmouth.

Spot on.

[Anonymous]

With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

Or leadership/management skills. Companies don’t need more awkward math dorks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

+1000 I just spent spring break taking my DC on college tours. I was shocked at the kids we saw at the top 10 colleges we toured. The kids looked like they barely showered or left their room. So awkward and nerdy. How in the world are the top schools picking these kids? 100xs different than the population of top schools in the 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

Guess which skills do you need for creating the next ChatGPT. Hint: not social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

Guess which skills do you need for creating the next ChatGPT. Hint: not social skills.

Good luck to your math nerd making that pitch to employers in 5 years. “I’m awkward and weird, but I can do a mean derivative in my head and will replace AI.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With artificial intelligence, math nerds are obsolete. Diminishing or even negative returns set in quickly after algebra 2 or calculus.

Some kids are in dire need of SOCIAL SKILL training. There tune would be better spent there. Not doing more math. ChatGPT has math covered.

Guess which skills do you need for creating the next ChatGPT. Hint: not social skills.

Good luck to your math nerd making that pitch to employers in 5 years. “I’m awkward and weird, but I can do a mean derivative in my head and will replace AI.”

Mean girl alert!

Your kids are the mean ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do see the math hirings in some private schools and the teachers do not even have a math background. Very strange.

Not strange at all.

Not all privates hire accredited teachers. Not required

Give the tuition I would have expect some quality control.

Do you not understand that despite the tuition you pay, private school teacher salaries are generally much lower than public, with limited benefits and no job security? Do you really not get that? As much as you want to believe that the best teachers will happily forego the much stronger salary, benefits, and job security they could get at a top-performing public just for the privilege of teaching your special darling, the fact is that, for the most part, low pay + poor benefits usually = weaker candidates.

Cue the posters who will now chime in to say that they know some excellent teachers at their private who are happy to work for poverty-level wages because they have fmaily money or a wealthy spouse. Sure, that's great, but that's not the majority of teachers at privates.

I wonder what would happen if a private school offered significantly MORE, not less, what publics offer, with strong benefits? Like, just as an experiment. What if they offered wages and packages so competitive that people with math backgrounds would realistically consider teaching on those grounds alone?