Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Wait up wait up. Why are democrats getting blamed for the pandemic that happened on TRUMP’s watch? wtf. Business closed down because of him. Schools closed because of him. It is wild that people blame Biden for that. When Biden was elected, vaccines became available and things opened up. Yes, vaccines, that TRUMP promoted himself, as a means to get the economy open again. wtf happened to people’s gd brains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

#Truth

I used to be a Democrat, but voted for Trump this time. I live in a super blue county in a super blue state and I have watched how the Democrat pushed political policies have wrecked my middle-class community and destroyed our schools. The Republicans aren't fighting for the working-class, but neither are the Democrats.

What is an example of a Democratic law passed that wrecked your community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Jesus Christ, do you remember January 2020?? We were wondering if the Capitol might blow up.

[Anonymous]

Americans will get exactly what they deserve, you can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dems are no saints but working class will lose way more under Trump. Under Trump they will lose Medicaid, social security, education, health care, jobs, farms, infrastructure, emergency relief, truth, and lives. It has already started but more and more will be affected in the coming months. Trump will not save them. In fact, he is using his “agenda” to destroy some of them and control the rest. It is heartbreaking to watch.

Once MAGA wakes up, it will be too late. America is losing what makes it a world leader- scientific innovation. We have nothing else to sell to the world.

People who say the federal government did nothing for them… wow, just wow. All I can say is you will soon experience what it’s like to have a federal government that does nothing for you…and actually works against you.

All there is to say at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

Do you have cites on any of these claims, including how the GOP is more pro-working class? In fact, can you provide an example of one policy drafted, passed, and implemented by the GOP over the last 125 years that has been for the benefit of working families?

FWIW, we are in the top 5% net worth in this country and I do not know a single person in our social groups who uses the term “lived experience.” Ever.

You may benefit from a little more reading on what constitutes oligarchs because what you are discussing here misses the mark by a wide margin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Because Trump was a co-conspirator in an insurrection attempting to overthrow a presidential election. So yeah, maybe he should have his access curtailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Just in case anyone was still in the dark- Trump is as bad or even worse than Biden was as a POTUS. Both are complete embarrassments. What were we thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Just in case anyone was still in the dark- Trump is as bad or even worse than Biden was as a POTUS. Both are complete embarrassments. What were we thinking?

Life was good under Biden

Trump is nuts. We're all poorer with less sevices. And I suspect he is working in tandem with those who oppose the U.S.

Smart Rs who just wanted to make money see this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do.

The GOP did their propaganda well. They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do? How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite? We know they don't operate based on reason and facts. It's all emotion. How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing.

Man, you are a smug piece of work. Not serious about democracy? You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now. We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can. They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty. No tactic is too dirty. Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class. But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right. Absolutely not. But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time. The things happening now have been in the works for years. They just sell better. Lie better. Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game. The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%. The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy?

Come on.

#Truth

I used to be a Democrat, but voted for Trump this time. I live in a super blue county in a super blue state and I have watched how the Democrat pushed political policies have wrecked my middle-class community and destroyed our schools. The Republicans aren't fighting for the working-class, but neither are the Democrats.

What is an example of a Democratic law passed that wrecked your community?

There was a great Odd Lots podcast last week with a provocative thesis: regulatory over reach in response to the Great Financial Crisis has destroyed the starter home segment. The basic thesis was that GFC-policies have raised the cost of capital on first time home buyers to a level that is higher than the cost of capital for builders/developers. Thus, it makes more sense for builders/developers to buy/develop properties and rent them out rather than making homes accessible to first time buyers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdqnY5s0AM

In response to a very flawed study out of Chicago in the early 1980s that concluded that taking underprivileged children out of the inner city and moving them out to suburban school districts was a win-win for everyone, many cities tore down their housing projects. Instead those cities ended up distributing crime throughout their cities/metro areas. Memphis was the poster child for these unintended consequences.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/cities-and-crime/306906/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/306872/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Jesus Christ, do you remember January 2020?? We were wondering if the Capitol might blow up.

No we were not, we were worried about Covid. Do YOU remember Jan. 2020?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Jesus Christ, do you remember January 2020?? We were wondering if the Capitol might blow up.

No we were not, we were worried about Covid. Do YOU remember Jan. 2020?

Oh I think you don't remember.
Jan 2020 even FOX had the decency to be shocked, before they all got their orders beamed down from the mothership that nothing happened at the Capitol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Jesus Christ, do you remember January 2020?? We were wondering if the Capitol might blow up.

No we were not, we were worried about Covid. Do YOU remember Jan. 2020?

Oh I think you don't remember.
Jan 2020 even FOX had the decency to be shocked, before they all got their orders beamed down from the mothership that nothing happened at the Capitol.

Haha

So you clearly don’t remember January of 2020.

Hint: the election was in NOVEMBER OF 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a MAGA acquaintance last night. She's still cool with Trump because he's "getting things done" and all those "illegals" are being deported and the border is finally under control. She thinks DOGE is saving us lots of money and Elon's little boy is so cute.

She doesn't see anything authoritarian going on - especially after all the terrible things Obama and Biden did.

Just look at the Fox News webpage - they don't even try to pretend to report the news anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/

That’s the problem OP. MAGA only gets the news from right wing media. So when they interact with the rest of the world, they think “the libs are losing it.” I have no idea if there is even a solution. I don’t think anyone at Fox is going to have a change of heart and tell the truth.

I get my news from the Washington Post and WSJ.

I don’t agree with every single cut that’s happened but I also don’t think that reducing the size of the federal government = authoritarianism. Get a grip.

No, but attacking your “political” opponents by taking away their security details, clearances, their lawyers ability to represent them is. So it firing law enforcement people who did their job by taking the case assigned to them. And let’s not forget banning the AP for the Gulf of Mexico mess. Or threatening MSNBC and others for being “mean” to him. That is authoritarianism.

If Biden is senile or of a diminishing mind, he shouldn’t have a security clearance. Especially since he was absent minded regarding some classified papers in his garage.

Security clearances for former presidents, are courtesies.

Way more people than Biden. It is pure revenge.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trumps-canceling-scores-security-clearances-unprecedented-rcna189245

It’s not revenge. It’s protection of the President’s agenda. Which, Trump is entitled to as POTUS.

DP. It is obviously petty and vindictive, no matter how you want to spin it. His behavior should worry you, if you have any sense of morals and ethics.

Was it petty and vindictive when Biden did it in 2021? Did it worry you then? From the article above:

In 2021, then-President Biden barred then-former President Donald Trump access to intelligence briefings, arguing that Trump could not be trusted because of his "erratic behavior."
Since returning to office, Trump on Friday said he was doing the same to his predecessor, blaming Biden for setting the precedent and ending a courtesy traditionally provided to former presidents.

If it’s such a horrible thing, where was your outrage then?

Jesus Christ, do you remember January 2020?? We were wondering if the Capitol might blow up.

No we were not, we were worried about Covid. Do YOU remember Jan. 2020?

Oh I think you don't remember.
Jan 2020 even FOX had the decency to be shocked, before they all got their orders beamed down from the mothership that nothing happened at the Capitol.

You're a pea brained fruitcake. Trump's dereliction of duty while the Capitol was being stormed occurred in January of 2021. Perhaps read a book or do some googling before posting such nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Oh I see

One typo has made all your brains blow up

Well whatever makes you feel better