Reply to Serious question for MAGA - how do you not see the rise of authoritarian oligarchy?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Do you believe this isn’t possible? Or do you just not care because you are fooled into believing it will some how benefit you?[/quote]

I’m not MAGA. I was one of the Democrats on here begging Democrats to look up (of course nobody did) and who knew Trump would beat Biden, let alone Harris. I think I’m one of the few Democrats posting here that regularly listens to Rogan, Kirk, etc. I’m a Democrat because I am pro-labor, pro-working class (people the Democrats used to care about), but feel alienated from this current identity-focused iteration of the party. Of course I voted for Harris because Trump is a traitor, but I have no love for the current Democrats.

Here is what you don’t understand. The deep red MAGA believe we were in an authoritarian oligarchy under the Democrats. They believe that Democrats used the pandemic to destroy small businesses with their closure and shut-down orders, and to consolidate power into the hands of powerful Democrat donors. They do not believe they receive any benefit whatsoever from government agencies, mostly seeing them as arms of the oligarchy that destroyed small businesses and the education of their children during the pandemic. And these feelings run long and deep: most of them view the pandemic business and school closures as targeted extensions of what Democrats did with NAFTA.

They also view the DEI and identity-focus of current Democrats as explicitly anti-working class. The language of DEI is inexplicable and a clear class marker — no one who isn’t part of the wealthy oligarch class uses incomprehensible terms like “lived experience” in daily conversation — and they feel that it is used by the oligarchs in charge to weaken and isolate them.

So, from the point of view of MAGA, there isn’t a change. That’s what all the hyperventilating out-of-touch posters in DCUM do not understand: the MAGA think we’re already in an authoritarian oligarchy. So, if we are already in one, it might as well be run by someone who doesn’t convey how much he hates them like the Democrats do. [/quote]

The GOP did their propaganda well.  They are very good at accusing the "other side" of what they want to do, selling it hard, and then coming in and doing it themselves.

[b]MAGA can "believe" this all day long, but it is based on lies and it is destroying the country.[/b]

So almighty Dem who sees all--what do we do?  How do Dems make the truth sexy enough for MAGA to bite?[b]  We know they don't operate based on reason and facts.  It's all emotion.  How do we dismantle the hatred based on lies. [/b] They are standing by while our country, our hard won democracy, is destroyed and watching like zombies as we become an autocratic nation ruled by a demented felon and his oligarch friends.

I don't want to live in Russia, Argentina or Hungary.

What do we do?[/quote]

With the bolded, you show you still don’t get it, and as far as I am concerned, don’t actually want to fight for American democracy. And for the record, I agree that Trump is a major, major threat to American democracy. I think he wants to be Putin, which is terrifying.

But it is not a lie that Democratic pandemic policies destroyed working class businesses. It is not a lie that working class children were most harmed by school closures actively supported by Democrats. You cannot — if you actually want to save this country — refuse to acknowledge that Democrats have caused serious harm to the working classes with their policies. And you have to recognize that many of their favorite planks (identity, student loan forgiveness, etc) come across as extremely elitist.

So what do we do? Well, most Democrats won’t like it, because it’s going to require humility and admitting profound errors. I don’t actually think the party in its current form can manage it. But, the only way to fight back against any oligarchy is with strong labor and working class. That means abandoning fringe identity issues and focusing on true bread and butter labor issues. For instance, for God’s sake stop having trans musicians that mock Christianity open for Bernie Sanders. Instead go to the churches, embrace the religious. Make the tent bigger. Push out anyone who divides, and hammer home the basics: economic security, fair wages, strong working and middle class, good education. Walk away from useless identity politics. Example: men in women’s sports is something most of the country thinks is outright evil and unfair, and just another sign of how the Democrats are elitist oligarchs themselves.

And yes, that means the laptop classes will have to get their feelings hurt. They will have to admit their policies are wildly unpopular. They will have to admit that they’ve abandoned the working classes, and that their  focus on things like DEI was done to preserve their role at the top of the Democratic oligarchy ladder.

I don’t think the party can do it. But the answer to an oligarchy is always strong labor and working classes. That’s it. Anything else is just window dressing. [/quote]

Man, you are a smug piece of work.  Not serious about democracy?  You aren't in reality, man. Humility on the part of Dems will get them abso-F-in-lutely nowhere now.  We live in a world where the GOP take something like a heartfelt apology, twist it, and use it to plunge the knife as deep as they can.  They play zero-sum, winner-take-all politics and they play as dirty as it gets. No lie is too dirty.  No tactic is too dirty.  Everything is us vs. them now. Compromise is weakness. MAGA are in tin foil hat territory.

BOTH parties have done things to hurt the working class.  But who will REALLY fight for them. It's been the Dems for a long time. Do they always get it right.  Absolutely not.  But, c'mon, the GOP is for the richest of the rich and has been for a long time.  The things happening now have been in the works for years.  They just sell better.  Lie better.  Sway better. Dems need to learn to play the propaganda game better, because after it's done, they will actually try to make things better, not prop up an authoritarian wanna-be and his rich friends. And, yes, unfortunately, for a while they need to quieter and smarter about how they try to help the marginalized, because, unfortunately, most people are focused only on themselves and are easily manipulated with the same old game.  The rich get us to fight over 5% of the pie, pitting us against each other, while they sit back and enjoy the 95%.  The GOP did a great job of scapegoating immigrants and trans people and DEI as the reason the working class is suffering when the real reasons are so much more complicated and harder to tackle.[/quote]

The smug piece of work is you, laptop class member who obviously just wants to continue to oppress the working classes. [b]The idea that the Democrats will REALLY fight for the working classes now — all evidence to the contrary, we really really truly mean it this time, scout’s honor — is ridiculous. Do you truly think working class people are so stupid that they can’t recognize your hypocrisy? [/b]

Come on. [/quote]

#Truth

I used to be a Democrat, but voted for Trump this time.  I live in a super blue county in a super blue state and I have watched how the Democrat pushed political policies have wrecked my middle-class community and destroyed our schools.  The Republicans aren't fighting for the working-class, but neither are the Democrats.  [/quote]

What is an example of a Democratic law passed that wrecked your community?[/quote]

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